Vectrix has announced . . .
Interesting the trials and tribulations the board has gone through after being hacked.
It's pretty clear that the involvement of all the good people here will ensure it's survival. Just to keep things rolling, and as a test post, I thought I'd let you know:
Vectrix has formally announced product. You can see the website for the (sketchy) details they offer. The retail price (and only price, from what I understand) is $10,999. Ah, marketing - it continues to amaze me that salespeople, or marketers, or suits - call them what you will - think that this is somehow different than $11,000. Especially since it will be $12,000+ out the door with tax and whatnot.
You should get Lithium for that much dough . . . .
Patrick
The retail price in Italy is EUR 6300 + EUR 150/month, in 48 months. It's said to be some kind of lease deal. The EUR 150 includes insurance, all service, repair, battery replacement (if needed), but it still adds up to a whopping EUR 13 500. There are quite some discussions about it, and pictures in http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr. Unfortunately you need to register to browse the forum, it's all in French, and I don't think I'll can just copy and paste it. I could summarize some of it perhaps. There are also some reports from people about the new e-max models, they look really promising. I'll transfer some of it as well if you promise not to whine about the e-max history in US.
Rolf
They are nice, just don't see them selling very many in the USA.
One advantage is they are in the right market, and as production increases the price may go down for the US market.
Where are all the large scooter people?
Gman
Go to V Refuge for the latest news about V is for Voltage
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VRefuge/
Peace Out,
Gman
Peace Out,
Gman
The Vectrix battery pack is initially said to be 125 volt 3.7kwh NiMH. Using the bicycle speed calculator:
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
with a 300lb estimated vehicle weight and 80% efficiency, it'll take at least a continuous 8,750 watts to move the scooter over level ground at it's claimed 62mph top speed. Using 80% DoD, at top speed this pack will likely provide a range of no more than 21 miles*.
(0.8eff x 3.7kw-h / 8.75kw = 1/3rd of an hour. 1/3hr x 62mph = 21 miles)
Not good enough for a scooter that costs over 10k dollars. Also, if used daily the NiMH battery pack will only last one year or so.
So I agree: the Vectrix will not sell well here in the USA (until price is < $5k, range at top speed > 50 miles, with fast-charging, longer-longevity batteries). With competition from the new emax lithium, and the large present-day market for lithium powertool batteries, hopefully that day won't be long coming.
--xyster
*My bikes battery pack is 2.2kwh and at 80% DoD provides only 35 miles at 35mph over mixed terrain. I'm sufficiently pleased with it's range as it's a bicycle costing less than 1/5th the vectrix. If I was wealthy enough to afford a $11k scooter, the first thing I'd do is upgrade the batteries to emoli's or a123's.
I thought I read or heard somewhere that the actual weight of the bike was around 400+ pounds.
Al this slagging the makers of this video heap on standard-sized scooters won't help sales - not with me at least...
Xyster is correct in his calculations, as usual, and he has once again pointed out the cost of speed in electric vehicles. Because the power required to move an EV increases with the *cube* of the speed attained, the size of the battery pack in watt-hrs must also increase with the cube of the speed desired if the range is to be held constant. For this reason, better battery technologies are a must if EV's are to get out on to the interstate highways.
But of course, we could always ask, "what are we in such a hurry for?" :>)
Vectrix were until recently saying they try to bring it down to 200 kg, which was their initial weight target, but their official spec now says 210. When adding the weight of the driver, it comes to around 290 kg.
I have no experience of the bicycle calculator, but I think it is exagerating the power need. About 10 kW is needed at the wheels to propel a smaller car at 90-100 km/h. 10 hp scooters do around 100 km/h top speed, but these 10 hp have to pass a CVT gearbox. So a more optimistic figure would be perhaps 6 kW.
But point taken, the range at full throttle will be limited, surely less than 50 km / 30 miles.
PJD,
If you remember the same discussion can up on the old site. The maker of the video also replied.
It was not a sales video, but a informational one from Groovy Green a Green Eco Magazine.
He stated they were not allowed to go very far on it, and I don't believe he had a Motorcycle license, and it didn't have plates on it.
It's too expensive for me, no matter what it will do. Now if the Hybrid version arrives on schedule they may be more people in the USA taking another look at it.
What do you think?
Peace Out,
Gman
Please stop by the V Refuge for the latest news about the V is for Voltage Recovery effort and status.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/VRefuge/
Peace Out,
Gman
"Also, if used daily the NiMH battery pack will only last one year or so."
The pack should last longer than 365 cycles (assuming you go through a 100% DOD cycle every day). I wouldn't be suprised if it lasted as many as 1500 - 2000 cycles with diminished capacity.
"costing less than 1/5th the vectrix. "
You could build a motorcycle for that ($2.4k).
For a crappy comparison of power requirements my dads Yamaha weighing alot with 72 hawker 25ah 2v batteries draws about 50a avg at 45 mph. Even if the Vectrix took as much power (which it shouldn't with a brushless motor and lighter weight) it could probably cruise at 45 mph for atleast an hour.
The ~300 cycle count I got from batteryuniversity, numerous user reports at rcgroups.com and powertool battery users, and my memory of older threads from VVv1.0
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-36.htm
Nickel-metal-hydride
Figure 3 examines nickel-metal-hydride. We observe good performance at first but past 300-cycles, the readings starts to deteriorate rapidly. One can observe the swift increase in internal resistance and self-discharge after cycle count 700. nickel-metal hydride has a higher energy density than nickel-cadmium and does not contain toxic metals. Some argue that nickel-metal-hydride is an interim step to lithium-ion.
In terms of life cycling, standard nickel Cadmium is the most enduring battery. Figure 1 illustrates the capacity, internal resistance and self-discharge of a 7.2V, 900mA nickel-cadmium battery with standard cells. Due to time constraints, the test was terminated after 2300 cycles. The capacity remained steady, the internal resistance stayed flat at 75mW and the self-discharge was stable. This battery receives a grade 'A' for almost perfect performance. It should be noted that nickel-cadmium has a moderate energy density, requires periodic full discharges and contains toxic metals.
I haven't used NiMH for my psev's for this reason. So I don't have personal experience. The high NiMH cycle counts I have read about were all for low power, low DoD applications. NiCad might last 1500 cycles in psev's as they seem to in powertools.
Yes I could have built an electric motorcycle, but I couldn't ride it on bike trails, or pedal it for exercise.
--xyster
Is anyone on either side of the Atlantic, lined up to test ride a Vectrix - a road ready, real Vectrix in real conditions?
Paul
EVT 168 - 5000 kms
Range 35 kms
Distance to work and back 35kms
Thinking about a Vectrix!
EVT 168 - 5000 kms
Range 35 kms
Distance to work and back 35kms
Thinking about a Vectrix!