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VOTE FOR VOLT

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G III's picture
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G III
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Joined: 01/19/2007
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Hey, why not put a price tag on that thing??

What if it comes in more expensive than the Tesla roadster??
The TOYOTA RAV 4 EV was advertised on earthday 2000 at 23,000.- minus govt incentives and tax breaks then showed up at the dealers 2 yrs. later at 43,000.- - and you could only lease it!

I dislike dumb surveys. They (GM) are in full posession of the knowledge of what the american public wants and I believe this public is far more sophisticated than the CNN-biased surface view will present. The EV-1 was the prime example. The yanked it away (watch the movie) so why ask now??

Wizard's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

This kinda thing just makes me feel tired all over.

I have watched the reaction to this thing all over the net and it all adds up to one big "who cares?"

Here's an idea!

The GM EV2.

Just build it or shut up is what I say.

I'll just keep driving my EV everyday. You can't drive jpegs and promises.

Mark Higley

They are here and they don't even know it.

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Mark Higley

http://www.midwestev.com

They are here and they don't even know it.

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Joined: 02/16/2007
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

A series hybrid like the Volt would be great, but I think GM is corrupt and they do not plan on building it. This is a marketing / PR campaign, nothing more. Even the concept car doesn't actually function yet, and a concept car would be meaningless even if it worked.

andrew's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Neat survey G III. I have this suspicion more or less, that a large portion of the population really would like to drive an EV if it goes as fast as ICE cars, and they don't need to build and repair it. I think the price of RAV4s on ebay is a good example. They are selling upwards of $45k even with old used batteries. The sad truth is that if someone just put forth the money to engineer and manufacture a decent EV, and sell it for a fair price, it would sell very well. The problem is we continue to bank on wishful thinking. Everyone is waiting for that battery technology that is "just around the corner," when we could be using existing technology to begin to transition to a better more sustainable future now. It feels good to drive an EV, and know you are not contributing to high gas prices.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?

PJD
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

The Chevy volt "concept" never looked like a serious project to me - it isn't even an appropriate body style for an EV (what's the long hood and big grille for???). It's pure propaganda.

I agree we need to move forward with what's available. Mass produced battery-electric cars would likely cost less to build than IC cars as they have much fewer moving parts - especially if the battery electrics are subcompact or smaller as would be appropriate for urban use - and that's the REAL problem - too cheap and reliable to make a profit.

A charging infrastructure would make limited range a moot point since they would be charged every time they're parked. What % of the time is a car parked?

We will get the manufacturers to produce EV's the same way we got them to remove the CO, HC's and NOx from IC engines, and the same way we got the manufacturers to stop building cars that impaled people on the steering column (among many other improvements) in a crash - by passing LAWS.

Everyone needs to get over this free-market fetishism. It was not "free markets" that cleaned up our air, water, and made our homes, transportation and workplaces safer. It was LAWS.

Dennis's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

You hit the nail right on the head. I am sure the automotive engineers at these big corporations are aware of that little secret. The evolution to electric drive is not about the lack of technological advances; it's about the all mighty dollar. It is very disappointing to see A123 is partly being influenced by GM. We may never see their batteries offered for electric vehicles if the automotive industry and oil companies had their way. I just saw an interview with the CEO of Chevron on the news and he stated we can expect to still use petroleum for 80 percent of our transportation needs for the next 80 years. Does he know something that we do not? Or will they be able to scrap the electric transportation idea like they did with the Red Cars of Southern California, the EV1, Honda EV, RAV4 EV....

At last there is a savior to our rescue and a thorn in their sides, Elon Musk of Tesla motors who plans to eventually offer an electric sedan for the masses.

I have a similar vision for electric transport but it's in the form of a light, powerful, aerodyamic electric vehicle that can be charged off the grid through either wind or solar energy. I can vison these vehicles sharing the roads along with heavy electric sedans a la Elon Musk of Tesla motors. To me it just plain makes more sense to travel around town with a light and efficient electric vehicle. It will be more dangeous due to the other multi thousand pound vehicles that share the roads with us. I have an M1 motorcylce license for over 18 years and have commuted on motorcycles in the past for over 8 years and if you drive defensively, it is possible to stay alive in a small light vehicle.
Here are two paragraphs of my recent posts on http:// www.dahon.com :

There is a new folder in town. I'm sorry to say it's not from Dahon. See link: http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/presse/scorpion_fx_e.html. But with a price tag of $3,090.00 there is room for Dahon to enter the game.

This trike or a trike like it could be the platform for a light aerodyamic electric vehicle. It can be easily disassembled and will fit about anywhere. It only needs an electric kit and a custom aerodyamically designed carbon fiber or fiber glass shell with doors and speeds over 25mph will easily be possible. I can imagine a fully enclosed faired trike speeding down the streets like any motorcycle or moped on the road today in excess of 45mph. It would be able to accomplish this with a small and efficent electric motor and a light and powerful A123 litium battery ( http://www.a123systems.com/html/home.html ) with today's technology. Who knows, in the near future maybe it can be fitted with super efficient ultra capacitors in development so the potential energy lost from braking can be stored through a regenerative braking system. Because of its small frontal area it will be able to punch through any air resistance easily over 25mph like a bullet. Hope Dahon's future light electric vehicle is similar to what I am imagining. All the pieces seems to be falling in place with today's technological advances. It was only about a year ago when I was asking for a longer range battery pack for the Dahon Roo Electirc folder.

If the Wright brothers small bicycle shop can build an airplane, I have no doubt a company like Dahon will be able to develop and market a light electric vehicle soon.

The height of a trike is about the same as a sports car like a Ferari or Lamborghini. Yes, it may be true that you may be crushed by a car, truck or a bus but you may also be crushed in the same manner on any pedal bicycle or electric pedal assist bicycle that is not capable of over 25 or so mph, not counting downhill speeds. (a good example is one of my test rides on my Bionx kitted Mu SL up to Malibu pier on Pacific Coast Hwy. I was on the shoulder traveling at about 19 to 22 mph and cars were passing me very closesly at speeds of over 50 mph!!! )

What I was getting at is Dahon Tech's reply to me at another thread about Dahon's future plans to develop an "electric vehicle." A light and fast electric vehicle that is capable of 50 or more mph is what I have in mind. One that is able to keep up with or speed away from traffic if needed. It would be as safe as any moped or motorcyle and would require the same license, insurance, and registration. I'm sure if Dahon builds one, there will be a market out their for this type of vehicle. I would gladly be one of their first customers. I have owned and commuted on motorcyles for over eight years in the past and have logged over 100,000 miles on them during that period of time. When compared to my experiences on a bicycle, I felt much safer on a motorcylce that is able to keep up or speed away from traffic. And yes, I had many close calls on my motorcycles and I would have been crushed as well if those distracted drivers were able to knock me off.

Here are some ideas for Dahon to mull over. Nothing like free ideas, right? Think tandem seating like a 2 seater motorcycle or a single seater with better performance like a mono posto sport bike. A fully enclosed aerodyamic sporty 3 wheeler would be a great starting point for the first model. I feel the price point for such an electric vehicle, if it is capable of 50 or more mph for surface streets, can be priced at the range of or even a few thousand dollars higher than the currently available velomobiles such as http://www.aerorider.com/ or http://www.go-one.us/. I like the go-one's front fairing design but the open back wheel is just plain ugly and causes aerodyamic drag. It's stance is also a bit low, maybe something in between the aerorider's and go-one's height......

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Joined: 03/13/2007
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

I am so glad to have found this forum.

logical people, who are actively seeking the future. I too look forward to the day where the roads are filled with EV contraptions of all shapes and sizes. the tricycle is my favourite. although getting these oil-less vehicles engineered for mass production for the consumer will be in my mind more difficult than getting GM or the like to build their EVs as they say they will.

i will have to look for the company here in Australia who was trying to get their vehicle passed, 4 wheels, as a "quadricycle" as the Australian government would not pass it as a car.

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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Quote:

Here are some ideas for Dahon to mull over. Nothing like free ideas, right? Think tandem seating like a 2 seater motorcycle or a single seater with better performance like a mono posto sport bike. A fully enclosed aerodyamic sporty 3 wheeler would be a great starting point for the first model. I feel the price point for such an electric vehicle, if it is capable of 50 or more mph for surface streets, can be priced at the range of or even a few thousand dollars higher than the currently available velomobiles such as http://www.aerorider.com/ or http://www.go-one.us/. I like the go-one's front fairing design but the open back wheel is just plain ugly and causes aerodyamic drag. It's stance is also a bit low, maybe something in between the aerorider's and go-one's height......

Hello Dennis,

it seems what you are describing already exists: http://www.twike.us - 55mph and 80+ miles range.
Except for the price, which is a BIT higher than you are feeling... :(

Regards,
Skarrin

Dennis's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Hi Skarrin,

That is not what I have in mind. An electric vehicle with side by side seating is not my idea of an aerodyamic ride. Tandem seating like a jet fighter's cockpit in the shape of a slip streamer is what I envision. This would enable the vehicle to travel above 25mph with minimal air resistance. The vehicle's shell has to be built with light composite materials that is also strong enough to withstand speeds in excess of 50 mph or maybe even freeway speeds. A Zilla controller, A123 batteries, carbon fiber fully enclosed fairing, and efficient A/C motor designed to run at high amps and volts whose housing is cool by fans and ram air ducts, puncture proof tires ........

Maybe the carbon fiber can be replaced with fiber glass so the fairing parts would be more affordable. It would be a shame though because clear coated carbon fiber is so pretty. I think I may be able to custom build my idea above into reality for the price of the Twike or maybe two. But then where would I find the time to do it? Have to go to work now.

Regards,
Dennis

P.S. I love this WW II era poster knockoff on you website. uselessgas.jpg I only wish all Americans would follow the advice stated.

Dennis's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Hi skooled,

Electric quadricycles or tricycles that are light, nimble, aerodyamic, and energy efficient will not be able to pass the crash tests that are required to classify them as cars. They can pass as light motor vehicles such as mopeds or motorcycles.

I used to own sport bikes that were capable of 180mph top speeds. I picked sport bikes with high torque and horsepower because they are relatively light and agile. To me, they are much safer than other types of motorcycles. With all that power in your control, it can also be very dangerous if the rider is inexperienced or if the rider abuses that power.

On one incident when I was traveling at about 65 mph on the freeway, my throttle hand was smashed on a van's mirror when the van suddenly swerved over into my lane without signaling. If I did not swerve out of the way and use the torque of the bike to speed away from that van, I would have been road hamburger that morning. Speed does not kill, the thousand pound plus cars, vans, trucks or buses that may run over you when you crash kills. I guess the same would apply for an electric quadricycle or tricycle. I used to commute to work a 100 miles per day and I did it for 8 years. I lived to tell about it; So I guess light motor vehicles are not all that dangerous as long as you ride defensively and responsibly at all times.

One benefit of a fully enclosed electric quadricycle or tricycle will be the ability to stay out of the elements. And believe me, it is no fun getting caught in a rain storm on a motorcycle. There are also those really cold days that freeze your gloved hands so much that you can barely operate the clutch or throttle. Oh, other unmentionable parts are frozen as well :O .

Dahon tech of http://www.dahon.com in their forum stated they plan to manufacture an electric vehicle. He did not give any details of the design but he stated it is definitely one of their future projects. Whether it will eventually be mass produced and offered for sale is anyones guess. I am hoping for the best though. The reason I post on that forum is to contribute a few of my ideas.

Dahon manufacturers their folding bikes in China. If they were to produce an electric vehicle as stated. They should also sell it in your neck of the woods, if politics does not get in the way.

Regards,
Dennis

Wizard's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

SUBJECT:

The WWII knock off poster.

I have been called (on other forums) a "loon" for talking saying what this poster says. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Great poster.

Mark Higley

http://www.midwestev.com

They are here and they don't even know it.

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Mark Higley

http://www.midwestev.com

They are here and they don't even know it.

andrew's picture
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Re: VOTE FOR VOLT

Dennis,
I think you have some really great ideas. I think all of us can go on and on about the oil companies/car companies, then hope someone else will mass produce an EV. I'm not trying to be an A1 a$$hole. Instead, I think, if we all really put our minds to it, there are an amazing number of ways to get our ideas "on the road." In fact, I'm thinking of starting a new thread about this... hmmm.....Refer to "General Discussions" - "General" forum...

P.S. I agree the go-one looks ugly. BTW have you heard of the Corbin Sparrow?

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

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