Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

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Joined: 04/07/2007
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I am sick and tired of people telling me that EV's don't exist, they don't work, to slow, not big enough,
to long to charge, etc............. You get the point. I am a webmaster by trade so I am building a website to prove EV's are not only viable but they are a Superior Technology! I need your help. The first page will look like this http://www.kvpt.org/3D_5-3-04.swf only nicer. This is a very rough draft, and I mean rough. The second page will have a bullet point page listing 10 or 15 reason why EV's or BEV's as they are called are suppior. Can you guys help me come up with 15 sound agurments about BEV's. Currently I am working on the page called "Fact or Fiction" and it compares Gas Cars to EV's. Here is what I have so far for site. Please help me. I need all the input I can get to really get peoples attention.

Why EV? page
no oil changes,
no tune-ups
no gas stations (find a plug),
brakes should last the life of the car,
no smog checks,
no odor,
no noise.
good range 250+ (70kw battery pack)
fast charge time 10min (charging station)

Fact or Fiction Page
2003 Porsche Carrera GT
5.7L DOHC V10 = 500lbs with transmission – 604hp and 435 lb-ft torque
Fuel weight = 112lbs range 240 miles based on 15mpg EPA and 16 gallon tank
Engine plus fuel weight = 512lbs and 604hp .84lbs per hp with gas
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2387.html

Acura RDX
2.3L DOHC Turbo = 400lbs with transmission and turbo - 244hp and 260 lb-ft torque
Fuel weight = 98lbs - range 308 miles based on 22mpg EPA and 14 gallon tank
Engine plus fuel weight = 498lbs and 265hp 1.8lbs per hp with gas
http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=RDX

PML Mini and Zap X
PML in-wheel system 220lbs - 684hp - 553 lb-ft torque
Fuel weight = 855lbs - range = 250 miles based on EPA Li-Ion Nano
Fuel weight = 336lbs – range = 250 miles based on EPA EEstor
Engine plus fuel weight = 1075 and 684hp 1.57lb per hp with nano
Engine plus fuel weight = 556 and 684hp .81lb per hp with EEstor
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560

Phoenix Motors, Telsa, E-box, Wright Speed and T-zero
AC Propulsion Drive System 176lbs and 201hp 161 lb-ft
Fuel weight = 855lbs - range = 250 miles based on EPA Li-Ion Nano
Fuel weight = 336lbs – range = 250 miles based on EPA EEstor
Engine plus fuel weight = 1075 and 201hp 5.3lb per hp with nano
Engine plus fuel weight = 556 and 201hp 2.76lb per hp with EEstor
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/
http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html
http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/

Formula Lightning
Symetron 147lbs and 500hp - 420 lb-ft torque
Fuel weight = 855lbs - range = 250 miles based on EPA Li-Ion Nano
Fuel weight = 336lbs – range = 250 miles based on EPA EEstor
Engine plus fuel weight = 1002 and 500hp 2lb per hp with nano
Engine plus fuel weight = 483 and 500hp .096lb per hp with EEstor
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=842

Techno Savy Page
Motor
Symetron 500hp and 147 lb-ft torque
PML in-wheel motors each wheel =171hp and 138 lb-ft torque
AC Propolsion system 201hp and 151 lb-ft torque

Battery
A123 Systems
Altairnano
EEstor super capacitor

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

I would also like to build a page that uncovers the conspiracy that the oil companies helped to stifle the development of electric vehicles. So, if anyone has info please let me know!

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

superior_tech,
I think it's a really great idea. I have a few ideas that you can take and use if you wish.

EVs don't use much electricity. My motorcycle charges in about 1 hour on the power it takes to run your microwave or hairdryer.

EVs are simple. How often do you do mechanical maintenance on your electric razor? Your electric mower? Your electric tooth brush?

EVs can be powered from solar or wind

Lead-acid batteries used in EVs are 99% recyclable

EV tech and infrastructure has a whole lot of room for growth

Fact: Auto companies combined spend many billions on development each year. Its no mystery why current production ICE vehicles are "better" than EVs.

Why does it make sense to keep burning gasoline until its gone? Why bank on pipe dreams to solve our problems tomorrow? EVs are a real solution today.

Why pay high gas prices when you don't have to get screwed? There is always a choice, and complaining that there is no choice is a choice. Imagine freeing yourself from having to go to the gas station.

It just feels damn good to drive an EV :)

For your conspiracy:

CARB tried to combat smog in California. The mandates passed would likely have spread throughout the country.
Great site for reference: http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/electric.html

How many hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are on the market? There are hundreds of BEVs on the market and they are ignored by the government, and current administration.

The hundred trillion barrels of oil remaining in the ground represents a whole load of money.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Thanks Andrew!! Those are some great points!!! That is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. You really don't mind if I use those for site? WOW

I love the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" I saw it in the movie theater, bought it the first day it came out and have seen it many times since then. I am now loaning it out to as many people as possible! : ) I think I will just use links to the movie and trailers of the movie to prove the conspiracy part! I really liked the part where the dumbA$$ from GM is says that the EV1 will not be crushed and then they show the EV1's in Arizona crushed!

If anyone has ideas I am really all ears. I really do need everyones input to make the site the best it can be!

What are the most common things people say negative about EV's? Some of the big ones I hear are Range, Power and Size of the vehicles. What other ones do you hear alot?

List of Ev's
ZAP X and other ZAP cars
Phoenix Motors Truck and SUV
AC Propulsion E-Box
Tesla
Electricross Drift
Prius Plugin Conversions and the missing EV Switch
Wright Speed

Other EV's
White Zombie
Killacycle
Gone Postal link to http://www.suckamps.com/index.php?page=build_team_vehicles#ft

andrew's picture
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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Some great small EVs sold now and upcoming are:

Electric GPR sold by:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com

Myers Motors NmG
http://www.myersmotors.com/index.html

Oxygen scooter

EVT 168/4000e

Much anticipated EVT Z20
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

davew's picture
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Re: Fed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

What are the most common things people say negative about EV's? Some of the big ones I hear are Range, Power and Size of the vehicles. What other ones do you hear a lot?

Mostly what I hear is, "I need to haul my 12 babies to daycare, drive 90mph up a mountain, and tow a boat. If I can do all that with your stupid EV I'll buy one." This is to say that most people are idiots. Right now there is not an EV that most people can use full time without a lifestyle change, and very few people are willing to alter their lifestyle.

I think your efforts are laudable, but I would set smaller goals. For example you might convince some one who occasionally commutes by bike to commute more by ebike. A Prius owner might consider an EV. A Civic owner might consider a Prius. You get the picture. I don't think there is an argument that will get most people to consider an EV until the price or the scarcity of gas forces them to. In the mean time the best that I feel I can do is buy and use the technology and try to convert as many people as I can. Hopefully there will be some EVs out there that are less of a compromise by the time we need them.
--
Full time ebiker
BionX and Wilderness Energy

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Re: Fed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

`I agree with davew, you eat a Elephant one bite at a time.
Where would Petrol Vehicles be if there was only one Gasoline Station per each zip code, EV's have even less than that. If only 1% converted to a EV today, where would they recharge there system other than at home or work?
If we can't make a buck on it, then we don't attempt it. Now if there was a way to sell the charge, then maybe we would begin to see more places offering it.
The same is true about the E85 (ETHANOL), Not enough Stations nor enough Corn.
Locate the E85 ethanol station nearest you.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

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Peace Out,
Gman

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Re: Fed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Hey lets not forget that the electric car has been around longer than the any gas powered car (circa 1830) Electric cars last longer then gas cars, this is a proven fact. Example: a larger percentage of 1975 Vanguard - Sebring Citicars are still on the road or in private hands than most of the models offered by the major automobile manufactures, like a Ford Pinto. Give examples of how inexpensive electric cars are to operate. Show this example in the way that the average person thinks ( How much does it cost to fill my tank up, cost of the fuel, what do I average per mile). An example I use when talking to people is: A Toyota RAV4-EV costs less than 3 cents/mile to operate. At $2.00 per gallon, a gasoline powered vehicle must average 67 miles/gallon to match this cost. When was the last time you saw gas at $2.00 or less per gallon. And lets not forget that electric vehicle tend to hold their value longer then gas cars. Buy a new gasoline car, drive it off the lot, around the block, trade it in , and this trade is now worth several thousand dollars less then what you paid for it five minutes ago. Hope you can use some of this rambling.

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Thanks guys for the ideas!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep em coming. Man I am getting really upset now. Doing research on oil spills. Have you ever seen oil covered animals of the sculls of dead animals due to OIL?
http://www.temple.edu/environment/review_oil_spills.htm
http://www.calacademy.org/science_now/archive/headline_science/galapaguana.php

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Another suggestion would be to compile a list of start up conversion companies and post them on a map of the u.s. to show locations, as well as talk about solutions in the area for ev enthusiets.

Just as a side note I know one of the complaints that I get from people I talk to about e.v.'s is that they look dorkey. Currently I'm working on a motorcycle conversion, and want to make it as aesthetically pleasing as possible. Hopefully I might be able to start a business and turn more people on to E.V.'s. (sorry in advance for plugging myself {seriously, no pun intended})

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

There's two sides to an odd looking vehicle. One is you stand out.. the other is you stand out.

A few years ago I was in Singapore and was looking at these strange looking cars on the road with a boxy shape that was out of proportion to what I'm accustomed to seeing. Then it struck me, the people in Singapore probably think those are normal. It's just that I don't see them in the U.S. that they look strange. If I remember right .. the Scion is basically the shape of one of the cars I saw there. Also that Dodge Sprinter van that's extra tall, that probably looks odd but in a year or two we'll think it's a normal shape.

The other thing is .. by standing out you're going to draw discussion. Therefore you'll be able to evangalize EV's whereas if your car was a stealth EV that looked like any other car, then nobody would know your car is any different from any other unless they lifted the hood.

I generally get lots of positive comments from the vehicles I ride.

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

WOW Guys these are some really great ideas!
Here are the pages and there respective content. Any ideas on more pages or how to refine them?

The Real McCoy
List real electric vehicles or prototypes

Fact or Fiction
Comparison Doc

Techno Savvy .. Anyone have a better name?
List battery and motor technology

Videos ……….Anyone have a better name?
List of videos

Photo Op ……. Anyone have a better name?
Coopermine photo gallery “where people can post pics of their EV’s or Green Machines”

Where oh Where
List places to buy, convert or charge an EV or an Ethanol station

Naughty or Nice
List companies that are pro or against EV’s

Conspiracy Theory
List websites and movies about conspiracys against Green Technology

Environmental Impact ……Anyone have a better name?
Show the Environmental impact of the combustion engine and Big Oil

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

The lists you want to do will be very long and cumbersome. There have been hundreds of notable EVs. There are hundreds of places to buy EVs if you include scooters and ebikes. I would stick to a short and sweet list of currently available and promising upcoming EVs that can go faster than 30 mph.

Quote:

Just as a side note I know one of the complaints that I get from people I talk to about e.v.'s is that they look dorkey. Currently I'm working on a motorcycle conversion, and want to make it as aesthetically pleasing as possible. Hopefully I might be able to start a business and turn more people on to E.V.'s. (sorry in advance for plugging myself {seriously, no pun intended})

I think any vehicle is an art form. Have fun with it. Be creative. What do you think would look good? If you think about it enough, I'm sure you can come up with lots of ideas that don't necessarily hide the electric components, or conform to the standard vehicle layout.

For my project I was thinking of machining up some clear plastic motor end covers in place of the stock black ones. This way you will see the commutator light up at night with the way I have the motors mounted. Was also thinking of sanding down and polishing the motors. I initially thought that mounting the motors this way would be very ugly, but it turned out not to be that bad. Obviously there are some unique things I can do now with the motors as mentioned that wouldn't make much sense if they were hidden. Some things you want to keep stock if you want the bike to look good. Like the tank. A bike just doesn't look right without it IMO. At the extreme, was even considering paining the exposed high voltage wiring chrome. It might look alright, or like crap, who knows, have to try it and see.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

Dang.... I had no idea. This is an all out WAR! Check this website out. I cannot wait to launch the EV site and expose these Bastards for who they are!
http://www.big3defense.com/index.html

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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

superior_tech,
have you thought of a domain name yet? If you make it short enough I can make a sticker and put it on my bike.

Suggestions.
http://www.screwoil.com
http://www.kickngas.com
http://www.screwthepump.com
http://www.itselectric.com
http://www.hellwithoil.com

might want to contact who is behind:
www.!@#$gas.com with you know what in place of !@#$.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

andrew's picture
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Re: Feed up pissed off and now I am doing something about it!

superior_tech,
How is the site going; any updates?

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here

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