New purchase X-Treme XB-508

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cheap fun
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Greetings all,

I am planning to make a first purchase of e-scooter. This will be a learner ride and something to tinker with before I make a second purhase possibly this sumer or next March. What do you all think of an xtreme xb-508. I know they are most likely poor quality but my plan is to use it as a learner ride to play around with mods and not feel bad if I use it up the first season. Ultimately I plan to purchase a EVT 4000, Z-20 or something on that order.

This scoot is something I would ride aprox 20 miles/day and most likely charge every 10 miles. I only plan to cruse around 20mph on this first purchase and will be happy to wait till my next pruhase to get up in the 40s as that appears to be the wall on a 1500-2000 watt unit.

Regards, Earl Lane

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Gman
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

`Welcome cheap fun,
I don't think you will be satisfied with the xtreme xb-508, unless you have a Child or something.
How much weight will it carry, and is your commute all on flat roads?

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cheap fun
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

Earl Lane

Thanks Gman for the reply!

The specs say suggested Max Weight 300 lbs for what ever that is worth?
The controller is rated @60amps and the battery pack is rated 56amp and 48volts, 550watt brush less hub motor . I don't know what kind of torque that will give it with 16in wheels.

It's mostly flat where I live.

What do you all think? Please chime in.

Earl Lane

Gman
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

`Specs are way over stated as far as the weight, I'd say by about 50%.
There are not that many mods you can do, since the frame is on the weak side. You can probably use the motor etc on something else, but that's probably all.
It's probably ok for a kid to ride in there own neighborhood, but I wouldn't recommend going too far on it regularly.

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Gman

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jbird
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

Since you are considering buying an X-treme electric scooter, you may strongly want to consider the upcoming XM-2000 (60V 2000W brushless motor) which has better specifications and capability. You will quickly tire of going 15-20 mph on the flats and much less on any hills on the XB-508. Electric scooter performance is usually highly optimistic even more so than EPA estimates on gas mileage for cars. The other two scooters you mentioned have sealed brushed hub motors that likely will not last more than 10,000 miles before you have to buy a new motor or find a way to replace the brushes. As a bonus the same scooter is being sold elsewhere under different names for as much as $3500 while X-treme currently is charging a little over half for it now.

http://www.scootercatalog.com/xm-2000-moped.html

PJD
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

"Electric scooter performance is usually highly optimistic even more so than EPA estimates on gas mileage for cars."

Bit off topic, but I have always gotten at least the EPA mileage estimate - including the highway estimate, on cars I've rented or owned.

But back to the topic, scooter performance (why do they call these "mopeds" - is a Vespa a "moped"?) especially the range per charge, is always very optimistic. It can probably be achieved only on flat terrain, no wind, perfect battery condition. not exceeding 25 mph, no stop-and-go. It looks like it uses the same motor as the e-max, I am getting 45 mph at 60V and 10x3.5 tires, so with bigger wheels, 50mph seems achievable in flat conditions but you won't go very far at this speed. My e-max consumes 53 amps at 45 mph.

But the website for the XM-2000 is full of errors - deliberate or careless. The closeup of the front wheel (reportedly a 16x2.5" from the table) isn't the same wheel as the other pictures which look like 12" rims. The table lists it as having a hub-motor but also a chain drive. The listed 40 amps can't be right - or it is, the top speed isn't right unless you're going downhill, and the acceleration and hill climbing will be poor. The weight can't be right; the battery pack alone should weigh more than 125 lbs. I don't see where the required five 40-50 ah batteries would fit with all that space under the seat...

If they can't even get the facts straight about the product they sell, than I wouldn't trust buying one sight-unseen. It is much cheaper than than the Kazea ZE2000 which is sold by real dealers or the Z20 - I wonder why...

kringle777
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Re: New purchase X-Treme XB-508

I had also been researching the XB-508 and the XM-2000 recently, and came close to purchasing the XM because it was faster and seemed like a really great deal at about $1500. But all the comments about the quality of their other products made me pause. X-treme seems to have terrible customer service and their different scooters and mopeds appear to be made very cheaply, with shoddy components that break off or don't last long. Plus, 30 days on a warranty is just scary.

The XM moped looks great in the few pictures that are out there, really close to the upcoming EVT Z-20. But if you compare the two side by side, they are definitely different machines. The XM-2000 appears to NOT have disk brakes for instance. And the front shocks are different. The wheels can't possibly be 16 inches. Plus the low weight of it doesn't add up. And I got really spooked by the negative experiences from other customers.

So, I put myself on the waiting list for the EVT Z-20. Supposedly it's right around the corner from being released (but then again, that's been said for almost 2 years now). It's almost $500 more than the XM-2000 (for the waiting list people), but the quality should be good and it's been highly anticipated in EV circles. The company has excellent ratings for their other mopeds. Maybe you can wait?

That's my 2 cents,
Chris

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kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

Gman
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Re: New purchase

XM-2000 Electric Powered Moped Motorcycle

Quote:

`The XM-2000 has a VIN number and comes with an MSO paper that is needed to register it at a DMV office however at this time it can only be registered in California as we are working on the VIN number issues with the other states. Anyone wanting to purchase the XM-2000 can do so for $1600.00 instead of $1999.00 until we resolve the VIN number issue which is expected to be done by April 1, 2007.

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Gman

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cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

Thanks for the all the helpfull information!! As a short term fun experimental tester ride I plan to buy an XB-508 just to play around with then give to my kid. Any advice on adding a 5th battery.
Depending on what is newly anounced and delivering this summer I want to buy a long term quality ride that can give me a 45mph +. Distance isn't real important 10 miles per trip is all I require, it's real flat in my community.

cheap fun

PJD
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Re: New purchase

I am on the Z-20 waiting list, but, will probably not buy one since I put all my household scooter budget into two E-maxs.

Based on the command of the technical issues conveyed in EVT America's Fransisco Pruna's correspondence over the long wait getting the Z-20 to market, I am confident it will be a good product. About my only concern is since most of the real-world development testing took place in either south Florida or southern Ontario - both areas being pretty flat, it may be a bit unproven in hilly areas.

kringle777
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Re: New purchase

Earl,
Please let us know what you think of the XB-508 when you get it. I'm curious about the current state of their craftsmanship.

Chris

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kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

Gman
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Re: New purchase

``I know you will try to make it work for you, but you'll very soon give it to your Kid.
I wouldn't suggest adding anything to it, the frame is probably not that strong to handle any mods, and you don't want you Kid to go that fast and have problems stopping it. Be sure to double check all the welds as soon as you receive it, and after riding it.
Other traffic will think it's a Moped, so you have to remember they won't know you have limited speed, and don't expect the pedals to really be any assistance when your riding. I just use them to pull away from a stop to save juice, or when I get to a incline and have a problem climbing it. You have to pedal so too fast just to get it to assist on a incline. I do use them when cars approach me from the rear in traffic, so they know I'm not on a Moped or something.
As you know, there is no customer service that's worth any thing, that's why I decided not to sell them. The price seems good, but I didn't want to sell something that would give a lot of problems with no support.
I have a Luyuan PB-702 Model KBS, and it does what I need it for, to run local errands and stuff.
Luyuan_PB-702_Model_KBS.jpg
I'm now researching the LIBERTY EB-643 48 Volt, 25 Amp Town & Country Cruiser as a possibility.
LIBERTY EB-643 48 Volt, 25 Amp Town & Country Cruiser - $785 plus shipping. (X-Treme XB-508 Electric Scooter- $769.99 Free Delivery)
643silver.jpg
Specifications

Dimensions: 71? x 26? x 42?
Seat height: 29-30?
Tires: 16? x 3?
Front Shocks: Premium Dual Front Fork Shock Absorbers
Rear Shocks: Dual L:270 shock abosorbers for maximum comfort
Brakes: Front Drum Brake, Rear Servo Brake
Controller: The brains of the vehicle interfaces the batteries and motor: 48 volt/ 25-26 Amp
Dashboard: A sophisticated instrument pod displays speed, voltage, lighting, system staus, charging status on an easy to read display.
Lights: Hi/low Beam Headlight, Turn Signals, Tail Light
Seat: Comfort Motorcycle style
Motor: 850 Watt Brushless Hub Motor with peak 1250 watt rating
Batteries: 48 Volt 20 Am Hours High Power Sealed Lead Acid
Charger: 48 Volt DC Output, 120 Volt AC Input intelligent Electronic
Charging Time: Dependant on use! 4 - 6 Hours
Max Speed: 20 mph +
Torque: 26 N.M., climbs up to 25º hill
Range: 35 - 42 miles depending on Riders Weight, Road Conditions Etc
Normal Load recommended: Load 220 lbs.
Maximum Load: 300 lbs.
Weight of Cruiser: 177 lbs.(including 62 lb.Battery Pack)
Assembly: Pedals, Front tire, Front Fender (10 - 15 minutes)
Security: Remote Alarm System, Locking Trunk & Seat Storage
Stands: Steel, black, with both double and side stand
Pedals: Pedals for meeting ebike legal requirements
$785 plus shipping

OPTIONS:
Rear Locking Trunk: $25.00
643trunk.png
Windshield: $28.95
windshield.png
This nicely sized windshield sells for $49.95 at most internet locations. We think this add so much to your Town & Country experience that we tempt you to buy it at $28.95 with no extra shipping if you purchase it at the same time we ship your 643 Town & Country Ebike.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Gman
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Re: New purchase

``Well I finally saw a X-Treme XB-508 Electric Scooter. I have never seen another E Scooter here in St. Louis in over two years. Today while I was cutting my front, a young girl rode by, going the wrong way, on one. Had she been going the right direction, I would probably never had seen her.
Since she seems to live close to me. I may see it again. I did get a chance to talk with her, and look at it up close.
It would have been improper for me to ask to ride it, so I didn't ask. It didn't look as bad as I thought it would, but it seemed weak in some areas. The left mirror was broken off, but everything else seems to be together.
This is the one she was riding and it looks just like the picture.

She said her Parents don't allow her to ride any one on it. but there was space for another small person, and the foot pegs.
The Front shocks were very small, just slightly larger than a Door Closer.
Chas Stevenson will probably read this latter, he would be a good person to ask about the workmanship since he had a 500-watt 36-volt X-treme scooter for about $200.00 he used for parts on one of his Bikes.

I noticed a lower price on eBay of $599 + ($99 Shipping if picking up at a terminal)
This item is large like a motorcycle & ships on a pallet by a freight trucking company. The $99 shipping fee is for delivery to your nearest terminal (all major cities and metropolitan areas will have a local terminal). **Important: See Shipping Terms Below.
If you want the item delivered to your door, the fee is $70 additional ($99 + $70) $169 total and you must choose

I also noticed, they will allow you to pick it up now, which will save you the $99 shipping if your close to Des Moines Iowa, this is a change from what they previously allowed. They use to be the same price with free shipping no matter where you lived. I'm about 6 hours away, so it would be cheaper for me to pick it up there.

BTW did you see this http://tinyurl.com/349jg9 ?

Peace Out,
Gman

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cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

Hello to all.

Thanks for all the great input! Gman I checked out the site you referenced above and ordered one yesterday. I almost ordered a XM-2000 instead based on your comments about the size of the front shocks and the specs on the XM-2000 (60volt, 2000watt, 12in wheels, 50+mph and a beefier suspension but then decided I didn't want to tie that kind of money up in a tester that could be a dissapointment because of quality or exaggerated specs. If the XB-508 turns out to be what the specs promiss, the quality is good and I can get 20s out of it with adding an extra battery and maybe taller tire (if the controller will take the extra amps and volts and the motor will spin extra rpms) I may purchase the XM-2000 and mod that also the same way but that has the cart before the horse. I'll keep you all up to date with my progress on the XB-508.

Any ideas anyone can give on adding an extra battery and where to purchase 12v 14ah and taller 16in tire will be greatly appreciated!

If the XB-508 is junk I'll move on to a quality brand that is known to get 40+mph maybe a Z-20 once it shipps and we all get some reviews from actual owners. By the way here is a review for what its worth on the XB-508 from Electric-Scooters-Info.com:

X-Treme Scooters have been in the scooter business since 2001 and manufacturer the best quality, best supported Chinese style scooters on the market. X-Treme operates out of a 30,000 SQ FT warehouse in a small town called Newton, near Des Moines Iowa. They also have an office in Southern China where X-Treme employs a quality control staff of engineers that ensure their products are manufactured with quality and to the proper specifications. X-Treme manufacturer's a wide variety of products, including; electric scooters, electric bikes, pocket bikes, ATV's and more. X-Treme Scooter products are well known for their impressive specs, great features, variety of accessories, and low price tag. To top it off X-Treme Scooters offers lifetime technical support with every product they sell!

Intellects ride e-scoots

cheap fun

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`
This statement means a lot as far as I'm concerned.
The product is only as good as the support given by the Dealer. I'm very impressed.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

My XB-508 is arriving today. I lacated a 12volt 14ah battery on line for $50. Depending on the quality of the frame on the XB-508 I plan to order the battery today along with a controller for an XM-2000 which is a 60volt controller $67. I think the XM-2000 controler will function with the 550watt hub motor on the xb-508, both are brushless so I hope I'm right. This should send somewhat less than 60volt to the motor and whatever amps the motor wants to draw. Unless I am all wet the motor should last if I don't run it flat out for an extended amount of time or wide open every start. What I don't know yet is the max RPM of the motor, a taller tire would help that but also will tax the motor more.

Anyone have any knowlege about my planned monification or suggestions please let me know.

I'll try to post an update about my findings in the next day or so, E ya later.

cheap fun

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`Quess, I'm sort of confused. How will you charge the 60 volt Pack?
I also had 4 12V 14AH batteries in my Main pack, but am replacing them with EB12-12 at almost half the cost, and they are much better Batteries. It's very hard to locate good 12V 14AH batteries at a good price, are all the batteries 12V 14AH?

Peace Out,
Gman

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

I plan to install the 5th battery in a series similar to Crusher300's EVT 60 volt mod. I will charge the 5th battery with a seperate 12volt charger. The main pack on the XB-508 is made up of 4-12volt 14ah @ 10hr batteries.

I got the XB-508 today and my first look over leaves me satisfied my $600 was not wasted. I'll be looking the frame over tomorrow but so far what I have seen about the scooter leaves me comfortable saying the XB-508 is worth the $600. The battery pack is under your feet making for a lower center of gravity. I also like the idea the pack is quickly swapable allowing for a spare battery pack to be standing by and charging while you're riding. I'll be checking on the price of a second pack and charger. The factory charger plugs into the scooter below the seat like most other scooters and plugs directly into the battery pack when the pack is out of the scooter.

I took the scooter for a few rides after I topped up the battteries and found that the XB-508 carries me 24mph no problem. The manual specifies the top speed is 35km/hr about 24mi/hr. I reach the 24mi/hr in about half a block. The specks on the web states 20+ mph if you pedal, beleive me you wouldn't be able to pedal fast enought to add any speed at 20 mph. I plan to remove the pedal assembly to hopefully lessen weight and drag on the drive system. I'm going to try checking the actual speed against radar in the morning to comfirm the top speed.

cheap fun indeed

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`Where did you locate the 14AH Batteries?
Do they look like this?
BT08.jpg

Peace Out,
Gman

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BTW, I use my pedals to pull away from a dead stop, it saves some juice. They are also handy if you have a hill or steep incline to go up.

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Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

Yes my batteries look the same, mine have a name on them but I don't remember the name right now. I located the manufacture in China but have not found a distributer in the states. I did find a battery that is close to the spec of the 6-DZM-14 it is a Panasonic LC-RD1217P. The Panasonics aren't the same size as the 6-DZM-14s so they may not fit in your pack.
So do you own a Liberty and I assume it uses the 6-DZM-14 batteries in a pack like the XB-508. Have you researched what a spair pack cost?

cheap fun

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane
Sorry Gman, I just went back and read one of your previous post and saw you own a Luyuan PB-702. Looks like it uses the same battery pack the XB508. The structure of the Luyuan PB-702 looks like an XB-500 and leaves me wondering if it uses the same frame as the X-tremes. I just went back and looked over the Liberty and it lookes like it uses similar battery pack and possibly the same frame as the X-tremes.

cheap fun

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`Does your Main Battery Container look like this?
AC04.jpg
AC04)Extra underseat battery box Price: $25
This is my Aux Battery Container with 4 12 volt 7AH Batteries that fits under my seat.
BT06.gif
I only use it if I want to increase my range, otherwise I use the space for extra locked storage.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Earl Lane

My battery box looks similar but not identical. I noticed you spare battery box has the same connector as my main. I'm guessing your main battery box has the same connector.
I had my XB-508 apart today and have discovered the controller board is glued inside the aluminum case (had both ends off but can't get access to the components without cutting the case. I also noticed the controller has a lot of extra wires coming out of it that aren't connected to anything. I'm wondering if this module could be the same as what is used in the XM2000 and the combination of wires connected determine the input and output of the amps and voltage. This could make sense if X-treme keeps cost down by having one controller for both scooters. I also noticed the fuse between the controller and battery is only 30amp I'm guessing this means the controller draws no more than 30amps from the batteries. This could change my theory about adding an extra battery, would the controller even take advantage of it?
I'd like to see the controller and wiring configuration for the XM-2000 to see the differences. I should start a new forum on all this so people who have knowledge on the XB-500 and XM-2000 might join in.

cheap fun

Gman
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Re: New purchase

``The main Battery Box goes in the floor, and a spare cost about $25.00 from E-Ride, latter I may buy 4 more B&B EB12-12 Battries and have a spare pack for longer trips for less than $150.00. Since I always keep my feet on the pedals, and never on the floor board, the spare could be secured there.
AC04.jpg
This is my Controller
CN09.gif
Electric diagram from the Luyuan Electric Bike Manual

This is a 48V 800W 30A controller for motorcycle conversion
CN13.gif
Rear motor 800W
MT15.jpg
This is the 48V 800W brushless motor for motorcycle conversion
MT03.gif

What I really need, and don't have is a boost circuit. I'm very reluctant to do business with E Ride based on complaints I've read about there shipping etc.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Hey Gman,

I found a replacement battery 12 volt 15 amp. Maybe even same size, check out the link.
http://tinyurl.com/3cnvr2
I didn't check around for online pricing yet. Let me know what you find out.

cheap fun

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`The CSB Battery EVH 12150 seems like a nice Battery. The EVH line is new.
The size also seems the same, so it should fit.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Gman

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`
There is a local CSB Dealer close to Chas, he may know more about CSB Battries.
Bell City Battery Manufacturing, Inc
915 South Charles Street
Belleville, IL 62220
(618) 234-7272 Voice
(618) 236-3314 Fax
email: support@bellcitybatteries.com or bellcity@apci.net

I called them, and she is doing some searching on a price for 4, and will get back with me.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Hey Gman,

Thanks for the update!

CWW
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Re: New purchase

To Earl or whoever, I ALso recently purchased an X-treme xb-508 and would like to upgrade the motor (It's to slow)I was thinking of a 1200 watt 48 volt motor. It has a 550 watt 48 volt motor how does this sound? I hope to get it done pretty quickly is it a difficult operation?
Best, :? CWW

Gman
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Re: New purchase

`
CWW,
Welcome to the V.
I think what you'll discover is it may be cheaper and better to just purchase a better E Scooter.
You have a Hub Brushless motor correct?
I still think the LIBERTY EB-643 48 Volt, 25 Amp Town & Country Cruiser is a better buy on paper for about the same price of the X-treme xb-508.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

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Peace Out,
Gman

cheap fun
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Re: New purchase

Greetings CWW,

Thanks for sharing the interest in the XB-508!
I think this scooter has some good potential for mods. I don't claim to know the answers to the questions that need to be asked before perusing most of the mods but I am going to be doing a lot of experimenting. I hope to avoid wasting my time and money with some educated guidance from people in this forum.

I have noticed the XB-508 lacks torque which is easy to see by the specs as the circuits and available amps are less than 30. The available AMPS from the 4 batteries are only 56. That said the easiest mod to do is to replace the rear tire with a taller one but unless you ride only on on the flat that wouldn't work with out increasing amps. This is where the big questions come, first will the motor handle more amps? The liberty mentioned above has an 850w motor that also gets more amps from the controller therefore it is a better ride where torque is needed. We could start exploring swapping out the controller and adding a battery but that brings up the up the question will the motor take more volts from 48 to 60. If one could purchase the 850w motor the Liberty uses and again could that motor handle the amps and volts, that could be a nice solution with a 60volt controller from an X-treme XM-2000. You may end up spending more $$$ than it would be worth. I'm guessing the motor will cost more than $150+ the controller will cost at least $70 and the fifth battery could be had for around $60. Could the existing controller be modded for more amps and volts is a key question, if it could teamed with the right motor could make this scooter a cheap 30mph ride.

I'll keep everyone updated with any mods I try.

Any educated answers for the questions above would be most appreciated!

cheap fun

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