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Has my charger died?

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Mik
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Re: Has my charger died?

rah3a wrote:

...
... And, I noticed that when I turn the bike off after riding, the battery cooling fans come on for a while (without plugging in). ...
...

This could also be due to a hot battery - the new charger might have tried to put more Ah in than what it can easily absorb.

Does it show temperature during charging?

Does the air at the "exhaust" feel warm at the end of charging?

You will have to do several cycles before you get good capacity again - go easy on it, no hard accelerations with less than 60% SOC.

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Re: Has my charger died?

Got my dealer to update my MC and instrument cluster firmware yesterday, and everything looks good. I'm now on R4000 for the charger and MC1021. This is the first of the new Runke/EVPS charger they had seen, so they weren't sure the right combination of firmware to load. Thanks to everyone here, I was able to tell them.

Range after fully depleting my batteries was surprisingly almost exactly as it was prior to my charger dying several months ago. I got about 23.5 miles before the red light, and got to about 25 miles by the time I got home. Hopefully it will still improve a bit. Actually, the battery light came on but there was no corresponding reduction in power like I was used to before. Also, the battery light came on and stayed on, whereas previously I was used to it going on and off as I accelerated or went up and down hills. Is this due to the updated firmware, or is something still not calibrated correctly?

My operating temps do seem a bit high. This morning (after a late night charge starting at midnight) before my ride to work, I was surprised that the battery temp was 30C with ambient around 20C. It was 28C by the time I got to work 5 miles later. However, the air exhaust doesn't seem all that hot to me (before or after ride).

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Re: Has my charger died?

@rah3h: Did you ride the battery completely empty before the first attempt to charge with the new charger?

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Re: Has my charger died?

Well, from empty we added about 5-6Ah manually at 1A so about 20% charge, and then plugged in the on-board charger to see if it would work (which it did). However, I did not complete the full charge cycle at the time because it was in my friend's shop and I needed to get it out right away. So, I drove it home with the 20% charge, and did drive it completely empty. Unfortunately I had to walk it home a couple blocks.

Then I did a full charge overnight, ran it to the red battery light yesterday (although power output was not reduced at that point), and then did a full charge again last night.

So, the very first time I plugged in the charger it was at about 20% charge, but I've since emptied and charged it full.

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Re: Has my charger died?

rah3a wrote:

Actually, the battery light came on but there was no corresponding reduction in power like I was used to before. Also, the battery light came on and stayed on, whereas previously I was used to it going on and off as I accelerated or went up and down hills.

Its entirely due to the new firmware,

the red light going on and off from acceleration or up and down hills suggests you had pretty old firmare loaded previously.

Matt

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Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

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Re: Has my charger died?

I've done some more disassembly, and here are some pictures.

DSCF0726.JPG
DSCF0727.JPG
DSCF0728.JPG
DSCF0731.JPG
DSCF0732.JPG
DSCF0733.JPG

Question:
The white resistor is clearly damaged. What is the NTE equivalent for this part (what do I need to know to replace it)?
DSCF0744.JPG

Do you think the red part is also damaged? Is there any way to verify?

I de-soldered the white part:
DSCF0818.JPG
DSCF0819.JPG

Sorry for my dumb electronic questions, and slowness to respond. (insert lame excuse here__________)

If I can get replacement part(s), I will put it back together and give it a try--and report back, of course.

Thanks for your help so far.

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Re: Has my charger died?

Looks like the white part is a high wattage resistor that has been mentioned, I believe, previously as the main culprit for charger failure but it might still be OK, just gotten very hot and melted the red component next to it which has left a load of burnt (red part) plastic all over the resistor making it look dead.

(Ignore the rest of this if I am teaching you to suck eggs! I'm afraid I got a bit carried away. And by 'lead' I mean 'leed' as in the bit of wire coming out the end of the component!)

Try an ammeter across the resistor to see if there is any resistance. It may (normally) be very low - less than 5 ohms - but if it is the one mentioned above I gather it should be 1K (one thousand) ohms but this should be clearly marked - along with the wattage rating e.g. '5W' and sometimes its tolerance - on its side somewhere. See... http://www.welwyn-tt.co.uk/pdf/application_notes/resistor%20marking%20codes.pdf for more on resistor markings.

Obviously, your ammeter should show the correct resistance value - give or take 2-5% or so tolerance. If it is open circuit, it is blown and needs replacing. As you have it out already, you might as well replace it anyway.

The question is, what is the red component that has melted/blown up as that looks well cooked...? Any markings or a close up photo? The other 2 like-looking components next to it are probably all the same so if you can't see the first ones marking, you should be able to see the others.

Replacement parts are usually easily obtainable from electronics shops (is Radio Shack still going?) or by post from the likes of DigiKey (I'm assuming you are in the US). Check that physically the new part is the same size as the old as otherwise it may work in the circuit but it won't fit on the board. Here is a link to digikey for a similar part (I am not recommending it - it is just an example. Satisfy yourself it will work/fit)... http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/PSP500JB-1K/PSP500JB-1K-ND/2169781 ... you can see the basic features here. This will probably be ok but it is a non stock item and I think you have to buy a thousand at a time - this is the main drawback of using Digikey - an electronics store will sell one to you but at about 3 times the price! eBay is also useful for parts.

Please avoid excessive use of the soldering iron as too much heat can destroy components (esp silicon-based ones like transistors and diodes) but also can ruin the printed circuit board copper tracks which will come away from the PCB with too much/repeated heat. It's sometimes easier to cut the leads off with side cutters and then de-solder each one, one at a time using a pair of tweezers or long nosed pliers to pull the lead out after heating it with the iron for a couple of seconds. Ideally mount the PCB in something secure (you can buy gizmos to do this) then you have 2 hands for the desoldering.

Use a solder pump (my preference) or de-soldering braid to minimise heat build up and leave a nice clean hole to re-insert the new component. See here for a de-soldering demo... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-_pnc-Qqm8 ... but his guy waits too long to use the pump and has a dirty iron bit - the hot end of the iron - which makes for poor heat transfer and a slower, more potentially damaging solder melt.

Quite often, after removing the bulk of the solder from a lead/pcb, the lead will still be attached with a tiny smidge of solder but otherwise you can 'see daylight' around the lead and so it still won't come out. If you prise one end of the lead towards the space around it with a finger nail or small screwdriver, it will peel away from the hole and come free. This is a bit difficult to describe but if you have a go on a scrap PCB you will soon see what I mean. AT 1:29 on the above video you can see this where the lead he just desoldered is hard up against the LHS of the PCB hole and will still probably be slightly attached still.

Keep us informed and good luck!

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

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Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts UK
evalbum.com/2092

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Re: Has my charger died?

The standard charger seems hopelessly complex for such a simple device and low power application.

I don't know if any of you have seen the thread on a DIY charger at ... http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/200-build-your-own-intelligent-charger-36627.html ... but this shows how much yo can achieve with very simple, efficient and elegant design for relatively little money. The arduino controller used in this DIY charger can, of course, be programmed to do what ever you want and I expect could quite easily be made interface with the Vectrix's controller and sub systems to correctly control the instrumentation, cutback the controller on a low voltage situation etc etc.

MW

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Regards, Martin Winlow
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evalbum.com/2092

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Re: Has my charger died?

This charger (ESD) is particular complex, you could make a charger with a rectifier and a few light bulbs. But you have to remember, the Vectrix charger has to pass numerous safety, EMI emissions and susceptibility and HIpot tests and meet power factor requirements. 50% of the circuitry you see in there is to pass these tests and get UL and CE certification.

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Re: Has my charger died?

"particularly" complex...that is

Cor
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Re: Has my charger died?

Hi Tony,
I have a bad ESD charger that is already opened, so I can try to measure this resistor as soon as I get home, end of the month.
Cor.

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Re: Has my charger died?

The converter is supplied from the resistor 220ohm5W x2 / connected in series 440ohm /. Resistor is damaged by grounding in the system UCC27324-dual 4 A Peak High Speed ​​Low-Side Power MOSFET Drivers

Mik
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Re: Has my charger died?

wieloryb1 wrote:

The converter is supplied from the resistor 220ohm5W x2 / connected in series 440ohm /. Resistor is damaged by grounding in the system UCC27324-dual 4 A Peak High Speed ​​Low-Side Power MOSFET Drivers

Thank you for the explanation, and welcome to the forum!

Is there a way to test if the resistor has caused a cascading damage to other components, or is it just a matter of replacing the resistor?

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Re: Has my charger died?

"Thank you for the explanation..."

I'm glad you understand, Mik - it's gobble-de-gook to me! How/why does the 'grounding' happen?

MW

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Re: Has my charger died?

The resistor is only part of the power inverter. The inverter supplies the high voltage transistors. The power supply consists of several cooperating converters. / A similar solution was used in the LED TV. /. Damaged resistor indicates the current power inverter exceeded. The exchange itself does not make good power supply. Only the replacement of damaged UCC27324 reduce the current. You can say that the resistor is a fuse. Often this solution is applicable to electronic TV.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/texasinstruments/ucc27323.pdf
Shorting pin 3 and 6 In my circuit pin 3 GND 6 VDD, 5 OUTB. Damaged MOSFET Drivers will not run the inverter high-voltage power transistors

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Rezystor jest tylko częścią zasilacza przetwornicy. Przetwornica zasila tranzystory wysokiego napiecia. Zasilacz składa się z kilku przetwornic współpracujących. /Podobne rozwiązanie zastosowano w TV LED./. Uszkodzony rezystor wskazuje na przekroczony prąd zasilacza przetwornicy. Sama wymiana nie naprawi zasilacza. Tylko wymiana uszkodzonego UCC27324 zmniejszy prąd. Mozna powiedzieć że rezystor jest pewnym bezpiecznikiem. Często takie rozwiązanie stosuję sie w elektronice TV.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/texasinstruments/ucc27323.pdf
Zwarcie pin 3 i 6. W moim układzie pin 3 GND ,6 VDD ,5 OUTB. Uszkodzony MOSFET Drivers nie uruchomi przetwornicy zasilającej tranzystory wysokiego napięcia

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Re: Has my charger died?

I'm trying to fix my charge managed to remove the PC boards from charger housing and this is a list of what I have observed so far

Two Fans on the charger are not blowing

There is output from filter board of 230V AC to Bridge rectifier (so that means the two fuses are still ok not open circuit)

330V DC output from bridge rectifier to the Main Board

Intermittent output of 175V DC to the NiMH battery from main board

During the present of this 175V from main board I would also hear zip sound from same board

Has anyone come across this problems

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