ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)
So early in the day it was POURING RAIN, driving through puddles
GREAT! That means your blinker relay (apart from all the various other humidity-prone bits of an electric bike :-) is really being tested for water resistance!
Hi Johnny. No, sorry. I can't check the voltage until I install the cycle analyst. I'm thinking of replacing that LCD clock with a cycle analyst LCD. That way it's protected from rain and will look pretty good. Plus no one can take it.
Another day and yet again another day of perfect riding. Pity about it raining all day but at least I'm confident the scooters are fine to ride in the wet.
I have noticed the headlights just about useless when there are no street lights. There is a dark section in a 90km/h zone but without good headlights I was lucky to do 60. Has anyone found a good solution. HID lights are not allowed to be installed in halogen reflectors so that rules them out.
I have the same (or similar) display as you have to the far right and below two buttons where you can change (and reset trip) between 1. ODO, 2. Trip and 3. Pack voltage. Doesn´t your show voltage?
I have the same (or similar) display as you have to the far right and below two buttons where you can change (and reset trip) between 1. ODO, 2. Trip and 3. Pack voltage. Doesn´t your show voltage?
Same here. One button to cycle between all three modes, the other to reset in trip meter mode. But the Lightning might have a different instrument setup from our Thunders, I can still see the otiginal two buttons below the speedometer of the clock or whatever is situated down there, so the new gauge in hte Lightning may be set to trip mode only. But then it would not be resetable with it's own reset button... And don't overestimate what the bars show, they are in no way an indicator of state of charge, but rather a heavily damped Voltmeter. The battery voltage is shown as the average over about 1 minute, so after some spirited mountain climbing the bars are bound to disappear quite rapidly, but most of them will come back again after a stop of several minutes. If they don't, then your battery is probably quite low already. The digital Voltmeter in 3rd mode would be much more helpful for an up-to-date check.
As for headlights: It appears that it is either never dark in China, all roads have street lights, or people don't ride their scooters at night. The headlights are simply not adjusted right, usually they seem to be lowered to the minimum setting. There must be a screw somewhere to adjust them correctly. Only if you have tried to set the lights right and still are not satisfied with the output an alternative light source might be in order. Mine required 2 rounds of adjustment until I could live with the outcome...
I have the same (or similar) display as you have to the far right and below two buttons where you can change (and reset trip) between 1. ODO, 2. Trip and 3. Pack voltage. Doesn´t your show voltage?
Hey Johnny,
No, unfortunately. I only have 1 large green button that switches from trip meter to voltage that always reads 0.0v
So anyway, as promised here are some pics of our scooters at the ONLY charge point in Australia's CAPITAL city, Canberra. Our government are full of themselves thinking that this single point makes them "world leaders" by supporting an electric vehicle NETWORK! Sure, It'll only take our bikes about 3 hours to charge if flat then the next person, I'd hate to be 5th in line, that could be a 15 hour wait? Ah well, gotta start somewhere... At least it's a start.
This is the charger up close, just swipe the card near the lock and it unlocks and a normal 240v power point is inside, BUT it can put out up to 25A (6000w). Our scooters only draw 900w-950w each while charging.
Stretching the in-built curly cord. The charger "locks in" the cable so no pressure is on the power connector
Just another shot of our scooters. Charging with HIGH voltage in the rain!! Lol
I only have 1 large green button that switches from trip meter to voltage that always reads 0.0v
Which does give some hope as the gauge's battery voltage input does not seem to be connected to the battery. But if you plan on installing a cycle analyst anyway I think that should not be necessary :-)
Oh, and how do you reset the trip meter, with only one big green button?
I am unable to see from the pics if you have metal foot runners or rubber foot runners? My X-treme 3500Li had the rubber foot runners and now I cannot get ones that fit from X-Treme for my 5000Li. Is there a website to see more pics and specs for this bike?
yount
Yount3000,
My ZEV6100 has the rubber runners. Contact zelectricvehicle.com to see if they will source them to you.
Yes my foot runners are black rubber.
Here is a photo of both our scooter at Black Mountain Tower in Canberra, The STEEPEST road in Canberra at 30° incline. The 8kW scooter didn't even seem like it was worried. The top speed slowed to around 75km/h but the torque of this motor just pulled it up without a problem.
Here is my Scooter
And at the end of the day I installed my Cycle Analyst in the middle of the handlebars. I am going to install a switch to turn the cycle analyst's backlight on or off.
Sharp bikes. The bodies are virtually the same as the ZEVs.
Ok so here are some of my finding so far after having the Cycle Analyst installed.
I first installed it after I had done a 50.4Km ride on a single charge so the batteries were not fresh at all and when I went for my first ride with the Cycle analyst it was VERY COLD!
At rest the CHL batteries sat on 79.2v. Using a nice smooth acceleration drew just 50-60Amps and the voltage only dropped to 76v! Then under FULL acceleration the bike drew 110-115Amps and the voltage only dropped to 72.1v, no matter what I did, I couldn't get them to drop under 72v! WHAT A BATTERY PACK!! The bike puts out 8000-8500watts at any speed when asked but only requires 2.1kw to keep 60km/h and 4kw to keep 80km/h and aroun 6.5-7kw to keep 100km/h. Under full regen from 80km/h it will dump 35-40Amps back into the battery, still under 1C so very safe.
Last night I rode 19.2km, some at 60km/h and some at 80km/h and used 13.73Ah.
This equates to 1.4Km per Ah, so a 50Ah pack should give me a range of 70Km
My ride into work this morning was VERY different. Hot off the charger the battery read 87.6v and full power peaked around 8.6kw and even at 8.6kw the voltage stayed on 75v! I am starting to believe that these CHL cells are really made of the right stuff.
It certainly looks like the Sevcon controller has been programmed with a 115A limit which is fine by me because 115A is plenty of acceleration and 115A is only 2.3C discharge rate, well under the 3C limit and the CHL guy says their cells can handle 6C, But i'm not sure if the scooter chassis could handle 300AMPS!!
I am unable to see from the pics if you have metal foot runners or rubber foot runners? My X-treme 3500Li had the rubber foot runners and now I cannot get ones that fit from X-Treme for my 5000Li. Is there a website to see more pics and specs for this bike?
yount
Hi there,
Yes our foot runners are rubber. Here is a photo of our foot runners.
You are very professional,this is the advantage of low impedance battery.
Thanks for your appreciation,enjoy your riding !
Ok so now I have the cycle analyst installed I feel much safer. After a full night charging I rode my bike into work (6.5km) and used 5.05Ah. After work I rode to the other side of Canberra to get some groceries. Ive noticed that as the battery pack gets more and more flat the voltage sag at high current gets worse and worse. I got home after 50.4km and used 36.6Ah so the battery still had 13.4Ah left. I plugged in the charger and the Ah started counting down as it charged. After dinner it had dropped from 36.6Ah to 19.5Ah so I unplugged and went for a nice big ride around the city. Also testing out the new headlight bulbs I got.
I got home and the cycle analyst said I had used 44.8Ah and the battery was starting to sag to 69.9v under 100A loads so I just cruised and used 50A to accelerate me up to speed. 45Ah is as much as I dare to use without a BMS. But I am still impressed with these CHL batteries, FAR superior than thundersky cells.
I'm now up to 430km without a problem. Only 2 more modifications to make to my scooter. 1.) Connect cycle analyst to hall sensors in motor to get accurate speed reading.
2.) install an on/off button for cycle analyst back light.
Hi,
How do you connect the switch to disable the backlight on the CA? Now that you have the CA installed, please post some WH/mile or WH/Km reading and corresponding avg speed.
Thanks
Hi,
How do you connect the switch to disable the backlight on the CA? Now that you have the CA installed, please post some WH/mile or WH/Km reading and corresponding avg speed.
Thanks
Hi IBScootin,
In the Cycle analyst website they have a FAQ and to turn off the back-light you just short the backlight LED marked "K and A" on the side of the main board. Or you can install a pot 0-1K ohm and this will let you vary the light level. I like leaving the cycle analyst on at all times because I have connected the charger to the shunt so when it charges the Amp Hours start counting backwards with -10.2A
Unfortunately Until I have a speed input into the cycle analyst I can't get any WH/km yet. sorry. But I'm dying to see how it compares to my 750w ebike which uses 20-22WH/hm.
I have read the cycle analyst can be connected to the hall sensor wires and will count how many times it goes 0-5v and you just set the number of poles in the motor. Have you done this? Otherwise I'll have to order a BIG Neo magnet to trip the magnetic sensor as the wheel rim is nearly 4cm away from the forks. Plus I've lost the magnetic sensor....oops
Thanks for your interest though. I am dying to see the WH/km myself.
Although I could calculate it.
This morning I rode into work, it's 80km/h most of the way and then drops to 60km/h in the city and is a 6.5km ride. I used 4.85Ah (349.2wh) over 6.5km that gives 53.72WH/Km or 85.96WH/mile
Lets see how this compares to what the cycle analyst says once it has a speed input.
IBScootin, Do you have any wh/mile or WH/km readings that I can compare to? I'd be interested. I'm guessing that ZEV 6100 is 6100watts?
I am putting up $10 on paypal to anyone who thinks pcarlson1979 will not remove the 100kph governor before Christmas.
Pcarlson,
Yes, I connected the CA to the Motor's hall sensor and used the value of 28 for the poles and 1508mm for tire size (130/60-13 tire). Very easy to do and works great..
Yes, my bike runs 6100w currently on a 8500w (newer bikes use 9200w) continuously rated hub motor. So it runs extremely cool and it leaves open the opportunity to upgrade to ZEV's 8500w motor controller should I choose. Regarding WH/mile, if I am careful with the throttle I avg 62wh/m, normal riding at 45mph is about 70wh/m, and full throttle racing between traffic signals and using only the fast lane of traffic I avg about 80wh/m on a trip. Lately, I have been traveling as fast as possible to let people in my area notice that these e-scooters can be extremely fun to ride, quick off the line, while also being inexpensive to operate and a much greener choice of transportation.
I am putting up $10 on paypal to anyone who thinks pcarlson1979 will not remove the 100kph governor before Christmas.
Lol!!
Hmm? What would MacGyver do?
Pcarlson,
Yes, I connected the CA to the Motor's hall sensor and used the value of 28 for the poles and 1508mm for tire size (130/60-13 tire). Very easy to do and works great..
Yes, my bike runs 6100w currently on a 8500w (newer bikes use 9200w) continuously rated hub motor. So it runs extremely cool and it leaves open the opportunity to upgrade to ZEV's 8500w motor controller should I choose. Regarding WH/mile, if I am careful with the throttle I avg 62wh/m, normal riding at 45mph is about 70wh/m, and full throttle racing between traffic signals and using only the fast lane of traffic I avg about 80wh/m on a trip. Lately, I have been traveling as fast as possible to let people in my area notice that these e-scooters can be extremely fun to ride, quick off the line, while also being inexpensive to operate and a much greener choice of transportation.
Oh fantastic!! Thanks for that Scootn. I connected the single speed wire from the CA to the green phase wire and I finally got speed info, but since it read 855km/h I knew I had more than 1 pole in the motor. I just guessed a number of 22 and it seemed ok but it was getting dark so I'll install the wire tomorrow and set the # of poles to 28 and the wheel diameter. I will measure my wheel diameter and let you know what it comes to.
I also found out today that my scooter is the PDT (Plugin Drive Tech) version.
www.plugindrivetech.com
www.plugingdrivetech.com.au (coming soon)
I went on yet another day of riding after work today. This time up to a space observatory a few kilometers out of town up on a big hill. I will post some pics next time I'm on my iMac.
Now up to 540km. Sheesh!!
I did install a push button switch to turn off the Cycle Analyst backlight. It works a treat.
Pcarlson, that PDT was behind your "Lightning Extreme" was pretty clear to me from the beginning, it is their typical package, apart from the controller that was incremented one up from their "base" version that the PDT Sprint / Thunder still has. Sevcon controller, CHL Battery pack, the Xiamen ZAP/Erider 13 inch Motor upgraded with thicker leads and a "connection box" between hub motor and contoller in some easily accessible point that allows simple disconnection of the leads in case of tire changes. Have you found the location of that on your bike already? On Johnny's Thunder it is situated under a removable cover ("hump") in the locker under the seat.
It appears that Mujin "Mountain" Chen has realized that the PDT spec is a winner for his strong bikes, and I hope that spec gains momentum. Currently Erider "down under", Bereco in Spain, GoodWheel in Sweden and possibly also Masini here in Germany have all jumped on the PDT band wagon. Oh, I forgot Plugin Drive Tech's home turf, Israel!
The Masini Extremo as the 8kW Thunder is called there costs € 7890, which is a full €2000 dearer than the 5kW Thunders around here. That is the single big drawback :-(
Hi MEroller,
No, my "connection box" has been bolted onto the battery box and you can see the screws from the left hand side of the bike. I had a problem with mine, as the suspension went up and down, the plastic swingarm cover was scratching against the 3 phase wires and starting to strip the insulation so I just got a dremel tool and took off about 3mm, can't even notice as I did such a good job (gloat). The connection box I think is a very handy idea because when I need a new tire, Canberra motorcycle center may get worried if they couldn't dis-connect the wheel. I bet they would still have a whinge. The bicycle shop, Onya bikes in Belconnen flat out refuse to work with an electric bicycle, even if I only want a service done on my gears and brakes, nothing to do with the electrics.
Maybe it's just me but it seems like the scooter doesn't have the "pick up" it used to have. I may be getting used to the power?? I will take my wife's scooter for a ride after work today and compare. It can't be too bad because I was at the lights this morning with a 125cc scooter to my left and a stinkin' 4WD to my right, BANG full throttle...I left the 4WD for dead from start and was slowly pulling away from the NOISY 125cc scooter up to 80km/h, then I stayed at 80km/h (speed limit) and the 4WD went past blowing black smoke all over the place. I had a nice peak of 8250watts. I just love seeing that little orange dial wizz up past 40, 60, 80 with NO effort at all. I paid the price for my....sporty, ride into work today, I used 5.75Ah to travel 6.6Km. I took the fast route, 80km/h all the way. But once in town I love slowly buzzing around at 60km/h and seeing the cycle analyst using 800 - 1500 watts! That's nothing!!
No ride this afternoon, I'm just going home to install the single wire for my speed sensor, I don't want to pull the whole scooter body apart for 1 measly little cable. Maybe if I disconnect the Cycle Analyst shunt wires and pull them back up to the handle bars and then pull the new wire back down. Ah, I didn't think of that until now.
Pcarlson, that PDT was behind your "Lightning Extreme" was pretty clear to me from the beginning
Oh yeah! I see the "Plugin Tech" Resin label on the side of the bike there, just above the "Electric 5000w" decal. Here's some more pics, and a close up pic of the Plug in badge and the LED blinker.
CLOSE UP
Thanks Pcarlson for all the info! I just love that understatement of "5000W" on that label :-)
Yes it is entierly posible that you are so spoilt now with the spirited acceleration that your senses have been dulled - but it could also be that even the CHL cells suffer from colder weather. But you have two bikes so go ahead and compare :-)
My truly 5000W Thunder with only peaks of a little over 8000W during acceleration between 40 and 60km/h has so far used 7.773kWh per 100km of CHARGING ENERGY, which includes all charging losses too. I have no Cycle Analyst installed so I cannot report actual Ah usage. I am still looking for a compact easy to apply inductive sensor to thread the positive battery lead through as I do not want any surplus resistors between the battery and the motor. Even though shunts of course have only minimal resistance, but they do resist a little, else no volatage drop could be measured by the Cycle Analyst...
Oh, and I am heavy on the "throttle" whenever I can, so my 7.8kWh/100km are due to fast and fun riding habits, though I do tend to favour constant speed over continual slowing down and acceleration, for deceleration I tend to use my intertia and make use of as much recuperation as possible for stoping, though it is pretty weak in my bike in order to keep the GBS package happy, below -40A.
One more question concerning the "connection box": Is it some kind of big connector that could simply be unplugged, or is it more of a nuts and bolts kind of thing? Maybe a pic of it, and of your outstanding Dremel job ? :-)
And is that an observatory in one of your above photos?
It can't be too bad because I was at the lights this morning with a 125cc scooter to my left and a stinkin' 4WD to my right, BANG full throttle...I left the 4WD for dead from start and was slowly pulling away from the NOISY 125cc scooter up to 80km/h, then I stayed at 80km/h (speed limit) and the 4WD went past blowing black smoke all over the place. I had a nice peak of 8250watts.
:D
Glad you are having fun with your new scoot, definately a step above the loaner, and my customers sample.
I wonder if you could get hold of a sevcon 350A controller....
when I used the kelly 400A controller, I was able to leave 250cc sport bikes behind :D
Matt
I wouldn´t worry too much about adding a shunt, a typical one is 0.5 mOhm (0.0005), about the same resistance as in 1m of 35mm2 (AWG2) copper cable. :-)
Thanks for all the replies,
Well I rode home last night, in the rain AGAIN! Once again it seemed sluggish, so when I got home, I just parked my red scooter and jumped on Amanda's Blue one. Nope same performance. So it looks like I'm getting used to the power. It would be nice if the controller would let out more than 115A, maybe 150A (3C) would be nicer :-)
Then I got home again and took my red scooter out one more time and yep, exactly the same. Acceleration is a little slow up to 15km/h (slower than the 4000w) but I wouldn't exactly call is slow. Amanda still thinks it's a lot of power so looks like there's nothing wrong.
Yes that is an obervatory, it's the Mount Stromlo Obervatory in Canberra with a laser guided telescope (laser guide on the right)
I did have a scare last night in the drizzling rain, slowing down in an 80km/h zone for a 90° right hand corner, I used full regen to slow down to around 25km/h but I needed to slow a bit more so gently using the brakes, the rear wheel locked up and started skidding behind me, gained control, then REALLY close to the kerb it skidded again, putting my left foot down to stop the scooter falling I FINNALLY gained control about 3 meters from the kerb, I'd say without regen I wouldn't have been able to stop. So anyone who believes that these scooters have ABS, then THEY DO NOT HAVE ABS BRAKING!! I've seen an "ABS" sticker near the front calipers so "maybe" the front brakes have abs, I'm not sure. So Anyway I might go to the bike store this weekend and have a look for some better tires. This rear wheel locking up at low speed has happened to both myself and my wife now in drizzling rain at low speed.
I rode into work this morning (rain again) and I'm getting better with my economy as I only used 4.90Ah this morning. I'm quickly learning that to get around town easily on a charge requires taking the 'slower' routes through the city or side roads. The scooter loves 60km/h but SUCKS AMPS at 80+km/h.
After my 60km ride the other day in the sun, the 350A controller (limited to 115A) was hardly even warm to touch but the rear wheel motor was quite hot to touch.
I didn't get my ODO reading this morning but 'Electrically' the bike is still going fine.
Hi Johnny. No, sorry. I can't check the voltage until I install the cycle analyst. I'm thinking of replacing that LCD clock with a cycle analyst LCD. That way it's protected from rain and will look pretty good. Plus no one can take it.
Another day and yet again another day of perfect riding. Pity about it raining all day but at least I'm confident the scooters are fine to ride in the wet.
I have noticed the headlights just about useless when there are no street lights. There is a dark section in a 90km/h zone but without good headlights I was lucky to do 60. Has anyone found a good solution. HID lights are not allowed to be installed in halogen reflectors so that rules them out.
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eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012
"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v