ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)
Hi, yes you are right! It must be absolutely add loctite and add a against nuts, I also had this problem on my engine 8kw and sevcon 180A now that is ok! I also add a few thing to super to cool the sevcon especially l'summer! I sent the photos to MR chen See this
The new controller is a Sevcon XX and I notice that it get very hot when I ride
The controller is located under the sit , then it is enclosed and there is no air circuit to cool it.
I decide to find a solution to keep the Sevcon cool .
here it is :
a Water coller Corsair H60, this device is design for computer, I have to adapt it to my Scooter
I separate the 2 parts and replace the two pipe to adapt this model in the scooter.
see the picture below :
the water block/pump is sealed on the aluminium back side of the Sevcon controller
The water block pump in the battery compartment (the Sevcon is placed over the corsair block, and assembled with thermal paste)
remplacement of the pipes, and refilling
the radiator is place in the front of the scooter
The result is very efficient , the Sevcon never warm over 30 °c , and the hight the speed is , cooler is the Sevcon !
a deep review here : http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/43627-corsair-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review.html
Bye
LAurent
Laurent, do you have the ability to turn the controller cooler off and on? Or does it run constantly? (and zap power through the pump and fan)? I live in Phoenix AZ and the temp today is around 111 F. If I ride about 12 miles with considerable climbing, my controller overheat will come on, and it will need 5 to 10 minutes of cool down. I have seriously considered adding some type of evaporative cooler.
In any temps under 100 F, my controller never overheats. But it is mounted on the outside of my 4000li where it gets ample air flow. I am at 11,555 miles and counting.
Hello,
the pump and the ventilo waterproof operates in 12 volts i connect the pump and the fan on the power of the key, it works only when the sevcon
starts in road the cooling is very impressive! Last Saturday I went through 70 km of motorway (cells 90 AH) points to to 105 kmh (GPS) the
cycle analyst has indicated to me between 80 and 100A in continued and the temperature after 35 km was 28.5 degrees only! The more you roll
quickly the sevcon cools! Impressive! I have check the probe, i thought that it didn't work, I go the hand under the sevcon and it was barely
warm! The watercooling very effective! You can install without worries you will be very happy
Bye
laurent
ps: I have no more to cut the sevcon since I install this system, before the sevcon cut when the sevcon was very very hot!
More than 50 degrees
Hi TinTin,
I'd be a bit concerned about a water pump sitting over all those batteries. My Erider uses the Sevcon G8035 and I've ridden long and hard pulling up to 130Amps for 50+km without stop on a hot day up and down hills and it has never overheated. It is mounted on a large aluminium plate which must act as a heatsink. But in saying that, I have had the bike overheat twice now coming down a VERY steep hill. It is a lookout so it handled going up the hill, but coming down, all that regen overheated the controller.
Update: 22 June 2012 @ 6943km,
2 days ago the temperature hit -8.1°c overnight and on my ride into work I FELT IT! For the first time ever, the bike was noticably slower. Not by much, but just detectable. What really worried me was under full power of 115Amps for the first time ever, I actually saw the voltage drop (within 2km of my house where it had charged overnight) to 69.7v. I have never seen it that low before. So I parked at the shopping center across the road from work at one of their charge points. It turned out to be a nice warm day so at 1pm I went home for lunch and the voltage only dropped to 71.8v this time. Charged at home while having lunch then returned to work.
The next day it only got to +6°c overnight and the voltage didn't even pass 73.5v under full power into work taking the same route. So it makes me wonder, it may be a good idea to install an electric blanket around the batteries so when the charger is connected to 240v, the blanket keeps them warm. I can get an electric blanket for like $50. But pulling apart the whole scooter and removing the cells would be annoying.
I just want to know, has anyone else installed a blanket around their batteries to keep them warm?
Hello
to everyone, my sevcon is a 180A it heats up much more than the 350A!
From 80A in continues it heats up a lot! Now I can push to more than 100A in continues on 30km the temperature still remains the same,
the 350A is certainly the ideal!
But it remains too expensive!
For that which is of the pump it is well set there can be no water on the cells I have done everything for that to be waterproof
bye
laurent
I just want to know, has anyone else installed a blanket around their batteries to keep them warm?
Sorry, Phil for apparently having withheld this info for so long, but I did not find heating blankets fitting my battery pack, so I made my own. I used an 8m long heating cable with around 115W heating power and designed a meander that perfectly covered every aluminium end plate of my GBS-four-packs both left and right side plus around 40cm of "wasted" cable length from one to the other side.
I made myself a cardboard template with the pattern for one cell row and marked the meanders on a piece of sytrofoam floor insulation with an alumized backing. I carefully stuck the heating cable onto the aluminized backing with aluminium foil adhesive tape. Here is a pic of the LH side completed:
Below it is the marked RH side. I decided it would be easier to first slide in the finished bit on the right side between battery box wall and cell rows and configure the RH side in situ, but it turned out I had to stick it on before having shoved it back under the frame - no chance to fiddle with cable meanders and aluminium foil sticky tape under that maze of tubing and cables. It was flexible enough after having completed the RH side to squish it in there completed.
I had to take out the last three cell rows in order to unstick the front three from the double-sided adhesive on the battery box floor so I could move them first to the right side for ample insertion space for the LH heating, and v.v. for the right side. I was too stressed out to unhook all those myriads of cables and take the whole battery out. But like this it worked pretty well. After having put the last three rows in again I tucked in 2 to 4 additional insulation layers on the RH side in order to create a snug contact of each meander section to it's aluminium cell pack end plate while catering for the uneaven battery box side walls.
The white non-heating connector cable emerges from the rear right corner of my battery bay. I made a small cutout in the front edge of the lid in my underseat compartment for the connector cable.
Of course I had done numerous tests before I put all this together to ensure the cable would not heat up too much and melt or even burn something. Once it was installed I did a test heat up run in the garage as well as the cooling curve after having unplugged the heating and walked to the garage every half hour over 8h to log the battery temp. This data I then took to make myself a forecasting tool in Excel in order to find the ideal starting time to program my timer so that I would have approx. +15°C in my battery by 7:20 a.m., regardless of the ambient temp.
Only with the help of this heating did I manage to get through the in part extremly cold winter this year with my GBS battery. It was reduced to a heap of rubbish whith a core temp. of even just 0°C. With +15°C core temp. I no longer dropped the voltage to below 65V fully charged during my first acceleration out of town.
But the heating DID take it's toll on my riding energy consumption, though not as much as it theoretically should have because the battery chemistry worked with higher efficiency with the warmer battery.
The 115W might seem a little weak, but I am able to bring the battery approx. 25 Kelvin (degree C) above ambient temp. within 10 hours. So with the coldest morning at -18°C I only managed around 8°C in the battery :-)
Of course if you would also put a heating matt UNDER the battery pack plus some insulation below a lot more could be done, but also a lot more electrical energy would have to be invested (wasted?)...
So to cut along story short: I still think your CHL do not really need a heating if it does not get much colder than -10°C in Canberra, but do as you please :-)
Update: 2 July 2012 @ 7232km: Amanda and I rode 28km to do our motorcycle Provisional licence on Saturday and managed to charge up while waiting for our turn. We passed, luckily, and rode back home. All up we rode 71km that day. Lots of interest in the scooters and people were amazed with the speed when we did the emergency stop test from 30km/h. Yep, Brakes work real good! We saw 3 crashes and one girl taken away in an ambulance so it was an action packed day.
Bike is still shivering with all the cold weather that gets thrown at it but it never gets below 70.5v anymore. It must have been a once off to dip to 69v on that cold morning. Battery still charges back to 0Ah or more so I havent seen any sign of reduced battery capacity yet. I did have a long drive last week of about 73km and I had to drive slower to get the bike home. I drained 44.8Ah from the 50Ah battery and under 8000w the voltage started to touch the high 69v range. But waiting at the lights instead of 77.5v to 78v at rest, it was sitting on 75v!! But even after 44.8Ah and 72km I had a minimum voltage of 69.3v I think? It was still in the 69v range but I was getting worried. I put it on charge and in the morning the Cycle Analyst read -0.12Ah so it still got a full charge again, because when charging the Ah number counts down back to 0.
Update: 2 July 2012 @ 7232km: Amanda and I rode 28km to do our motorcycle Provisional licence on Saturday and managed to charge up while waiting for our turn. We passed, luckily, and rode back home. All up we rode 71km that day. Lots of interest in the scooters and people were amazed with the speed when we did the emergency stop test from 30km/h. Yep, Brakes work real good! We saw 3 crashes and one girl taken away in an ambulance so it was an action packed day.
Congratulations on your provisional motorcycle licences :-) But WHAT ON EARTH happens at such a test at your end that three crashes happen and one girl gets injured badly enough to be taken away by ambulance?! That sounds somewhat reckless to me, to be a test for a provisional motorcylce licence?
But WHAT ON EARTH happens at such a test at your end that three crashes happen
The test is mostly SLOWLY weaving in and out of cones and performing a very tight u-turn, then an emergency stop at 20-30km/h and dodge an obsticle (half a tennis ball) at 20-30km/h.
The first two bike came down on the emergency stop, while braking hard you could see they had very little skill and the bike started leaning to one side until they fell over, no major injuries, just embarressment. But the girl just completed the cone weave and u-turn and had to line up on the marker for the next test but she missed the marker so the instructor said to take her time and go back and try and line up again, she was too short for her scooter and on her tippy toes she could barely move the 100cc sooter back so....she did the worst thing you can do, got OFF the scooter with the engine going and walked it back, lined it up, then when she went to get on, failed to grab the rear brake and of course when she grabbed the throttle to hop back on, the throttle went 100% power and pulled her along until she fell under the scooter and hurt her ankle. She was ok, then a minute later she just collapsed?? Maybe shock I don't know? We couldn't wake her up so we had to call an ambo. We went through her handbag in the scooter to find a phone so we could call a family member and found the receipt for her scooter! 2 days old and now its all scratched up. I bet she's got a sore ankle.
I'm happy to say that I did the emergency stop test at 24km/h and the required distance is 3.8m and the erider 8000w with me on it stopped at 3.0m
Oh and the front brake caliper that say "ABS" means NOTHING. Before the test, the bike had to pass a "technical inspection" and the mechanic said theres no way that is ABS because it has no "slip sensor". He said it was more of a antihammer device at best. And sure enough during a 20km/h full speed lock up, BOTH wheel skidded meaning the ABS units on these scooters are not ABS as we know it.
But after all the tests, I had developed a new fault with the bike, caused from HEAVY braking I think. The front handle bars now wobble. If you lift the left side, then right, then left it will wobble.
So when I got home I pulled the speedo section off and found the single bolt that holds the handlebars onto the steering column was just loose. I tightened this after replacing the head bearings. So most likley my fault. To fix the wobble it only took about 1/8 of a turn to tighten it all back up. Now the bike is fine again.
There was a 400cc scooter (massive) in the practice session and he literally could not stop in time and kept failing. He only had disc brakes front and back. It looked a few years old and bigger than the erider. I didn't see if he passed the test as he was after us and we went home smiling, half was the EV grin, then other half was passing our P's.
:)
ok, so here's some numbers that I have been recording for a few months now. I would like to know how this compares to others.
I'm now passing 7280km without a BMS and this morning it was -6°c and I saw the battery dip to 70.0v under full power. But the cycle analyst recorded a Vmin of 69.8v. But the bike still felt as quick as normal. It seems the battery voltage will sag as below from my notes taken over the past few months:
Voltage under full power (115Amps)
BATTERY: CHL 50Ah LiFePo4 cells x 24 = 72v pack with NO BMS fitted. These numbers are off a full charge riding to work about 8km away.
Temp : Voltage
---- -------
-8°c : 69.7v (bike felt a little slower)
-6°c : 69.8v
-5°c : 69.7v
-4°c : 70.3v
-2°c : 70.9v
-1°c : 70.8v
0°c : 71.1v
+4°c : 71.3v
+6°c : 73.5v
+10°c: 73.2v
+14°c: 73.5v
+18°c: 73.5v
+22°c: 73.8v
+33°c: 74.1v
+44°c: 75.3v
Maybe the "ABS" on the brakes stands for "Alternative Braking System", as a complement to the regen ;-)
Phil, add about 12°C to your temperetures, and that will give you an idea how far my GBS dip at my max. current of 140 to 170A (depending on the battery temp...) :-)
I see, the tests you described are also part of the curriculum and riding test for the motorcycle licence here in Germany. But it appears you have no real riding "school" with an instructor, either on his own bike or in a car, following behind and connected via wireless intercom? That testing circuit was the first thing for me to do to give my instructor an idea what I was capable of already, and we repeated it once or twice between the normal riding lessons (city, country roads and even Autobahn) before the pratcial test came along. Then it was no big deal really :-)
To bad for that girl, such things do happen. I once almost had a similar incident when turning around to get back to the slalom circuit, but I was ON the bike, and immediately remembered my instructor's words that "the clutch is a bikers best friend" in case things get to fast too quickly :-)
Now I was of course very fortunate to having had a REAL ABS on the driving school's BMW GS650 for the emergency stop "rehearsals", and I must say I was time and again blown away by the immense breaking that came about using that system to it's fullest. BMW were the first to implement proper ABS in motorcylces, and it shows.
Concerning the Chinese "ABS", let me quote the assembler of our bikes: "China ABS is low quality and it never pass EEC testing"
People say it simply consits of a kind of overpressure bleed valve, limiting maximum braking pressure to a value that would normally not allow locking up the front wheel on a dry and clean road. The best thing next to a REAL 2-wheel ABS is to have tires that stick to the road come what may. I am VERY fortunate to have such a marvel of modern rubber alchemy at least on my front wheel already, and come the next winter I will put another one of those on the motor too. The front tire is so good that even on a whet road I can pull the handle as hard as I may - the bike simply stops frightfully quickly.
Hi MEroller,
As of July 1st 2012 (a few days ago) you now need to pass a 7 hour instructional course instead of the 10 minute skills course. We got booked in on the last day before the changes :)
How you described the ABS sounds about right. I test the heck out of it yesterday in a car park and the front wheel never actually locks up, just the rear, but it does stop you very quickly and I can easily hear the front shocks bottom out and release once stopped.
We had out coldest morning last night and this morning my gauge read -8.3°c so I knew the battery was going to dip... Just coasting along at 60km/h it was already down to 72v, when I hit the on-ramp and went WOT to merge at 80km/h, the bike seemed to accelerate nicely, there was a lot of traffic so I couldn't watch the cycle analyst but when I got to work I had a Vmin of 68.7v!!!! My lowest yet.
Wow at 12°c to my voltages? Wow, I didn't realise it was that much difference. The cool thing is in 10 years time when I lose 20% capacity I might be able to buy 100Ah cells to fit in the bike, doubling my range.
I had 2 meetings to go to last night on opposite sides of Canberra so I rode down south attended the first one, then my wife rode the bike and I took her car, and then she rode back. It was about 4°c last night too and she texted me she got home safely with 1 flashing dot of "fuel" left on her battery gauge. We had completed 71.5km on a single charge in very cold weather.
But WHAT ON EARTH happens at such a test at your end that three crashes happen
The test is mostly SLOWLY weaving in and out of cones and performing a very tight u-turn, then an emergency stop at 20-30km/h and dodge an obsticle (half a tennis ball) at 20-30km/h.
*snip*
I'm happy to say that I did the emergency stop test at 24km/h and the required distance is 3.8m and the erider 8000w with me on it stopped at 3.0m
Oh and the front brake caliper that say "ABS" means NOTHING. Before the test, the bike had to pass a "technical inspection" and the mechanic said theres no way that is ABS because it has no "slip sensor". He said it was more of a antihammer device at best. And sure enough during a 20km/h full speed lock up, BOTH wheel skidded meaning the ABS units on these scooters are not ABS as we know it.
The test here is more stringent,
to get your bike license, after riding around with the fellow giving the test, they also test your braking skill
you have to brake from 50kmh within 12 metres, without locking up the brakes
An experienced rider can actually do it in 8 metres
when braking, only use the rear brake until your mass has transfered to the front
because it is a scooter, this next bit is somewhat harder, but use your body to hold the scooter straight, you won't have enough mass on the rear wheel (if it is still in contact with the ground) for it to hold the bike straight for you
Matt
Hi,
Regarding the GBS batteries I can pretty much confirm MERoller - I can get down to below 70V in pertty warm weather (say 15 C) during accelereation.
I doesnt seem to hurt performance though.
A bit OT but nevertheless interesting about the licences.
Here in Sweden we have a fairly complex system with the motorcycle licences.
When you are 15 you can get a permit to drive a EU-moped (max 50cc/45 km/h)
When you are 16 you can take a light motorcycle license, you are then eligible to drive up to a 125cc motorcycle (max 11 kw).
When you are 18 you can take the "medium" size motorcycle license, driving up to 600cc and 25 kw of power.
And then when you are 21 you can take your full motorcycle license.
The license itself is provisional for two years, where really the only restriction is that if you loose it (for speeding etc) you need to retake it, whereas after two years you will just temporarily loose it´in such cases.
To take a licence you need to take theory test and then a practical test. Some of the above also have special tests such as "safe driving", which you need to have undergone.
The practical test is partially in traffic (country roads, city and if applicable highway) but also a driving skill test, which seems similar to what you have described above with a slalom test, slow controlled driving, and braking from 50,70 and 90 km/h to standstill without locking up the brakes etc.
Once you have taken your license, and passed your inital two years you have it for life. Unless your health status prevents your from driving, and I also think that some very serious traffic offenses may lead to a court retracting your driving permit.
/K
A bit off-topic, but back in the late 1970's, I applied for and received a permit to drive a full-sized tractor-trailer - a car hauler, the kind that is a huge rectangle and can be stacked on cargo ships, connected to a "tractor" unit with a 10 speed transmission and a two-speed rear axle unit that had to be used together. I answered about 10 questions correctly and from that point was able to legally drive the transporter as long as a fully licensed driver was with me. No training course at all - that occurred out on the highway! I can still remember driving it, filled with vehicles, in busy interstate traffic. I didn't ever get my license, and was never extremely proficient at back-parking it, but it certainly was an interesting experience! If people only knew with whom they were sharing the highway...
The processes Klas described for Sweden are pretty much identical to what happens here in Germany. It cost me, a two-wheel rider all my life (first rode on the fuel tank of dad's Honda CB 185 probably around age 3...), and for the last 26 years mopeds of the 50cc/50km/h class, a whopping 1 423.64 € to get my full motorcycle licence. I could do that directly as I am over 21 years old :-) So I could actually ride a Suzuki Hayabusa if I pleased, but I enjoy life far too much...
Phil, you timed that test perfectly :-) But you said it was only a provisional licence. What makes it permanent-ish?
From the goggle camera videos you made I could tell you already have motorcyling instintcs firmly in place, which is a good thing and justifies the shortcut imho.
That´s almost exactly what it costed me aswell when I took the license in 2008!
I have also been riding 2-wheelers most of my life before that (I´m 48).
hi pcarlson
am nearly ready to buy the lightning bolt . for carrying me and wife ..both retired .. sounds like you had lots of problems which we dont want as we live in vic high country .. are they more reliable now.. one idea for where we live is for a one wheel trailer to carry a small generator .. your view would be much appreciated
sounds like you had lots of problems which we dont want as we live in vic high country .. are they more reliable now...
Hi Alan,
After 7300+ km I wouldn't say I've had too many problems. The new CHL batteries seem to be going great and just regular checking the tightness of bolts seem to be the only thing to worry about.
I'm pretty happy with the bike and Eric at eRider in Melbourne is fantastic with customer service.
thanks for that answer.. on ebay theres a single wheel bike trailer which i think could adapt to lightningbolt had a look at sinewave generator weight is 23kg the trailer can load 40kg .. anybodys thoughts pos or neg would be good cheers alan
thanks for that answer.. on ebay theres a single wheel bike trailer which i think could adapt to lightningbolt had a look at sinewave generator weight is 23kg the trailer can load 40kg .. anybodys thoughts pos or neg would be good cheers alan
I don't understand why people who buy electric scooters would want a dirty, inefficient generator chugging along behind them, even if only some of the time. That isn't a troll post - I genuinely don't understand it. You could buy a C.A.R.B. certified 150CC scooter, or tow another battery pack and a charger instead...
wow its only if it runs out of charge as we plan to go about 60klms a day camping no power in the bush you having your period?
Hi Alan,
Oh I forgot to answer the second part of your question about the side cart. If you could attach that side cart to the scooter, personally I'd rather build a nice big battery pack (72v) to plug in parallel with the scooters pack. This would give you the same performance without overvolting things and increase your range quite a bit! Ive thought about a little generator but to have one to provide 8000w was very heavy. However I did see a little cheap one not long ago at Bunnings for like $299 that you could run at an unpowered camp site and would provide enough electricity to run the built in charger. And it was only as small as an esky too! Sorry I forget the brand. It was blue if that helps.
As for reliability, as with all new technology it's always a learning curve but I must say I'm pretty happy with my scooter.
Just to clarify. The generator would ONLY be able to run the scooters charger while the scooter was turned off and parked. Not while driving.
its only if it runs out of charge as we plan to go about 60klms a day camping no power in the bush
an inverter genset in the ~2kw size is generally 400g/kwh (360 if you pay big bucks for a honda)
a non-inverter genset is more efficient, but of course bigger and heavier
that gets you roughly 3L/100km which is reasonable (assuming 54wh/km, which some owners are reporting)
what speed are you planning on doing 60km a day at?
there are ways to hack an inverter genset to charge the battery directly, it just depends upon how often you plan on doing it for it to be worthwhile
unless you are planning on using the genset for something else aswell, using a petrol scooter may be more efficient
Matt
Update: 19/7/2012 @ 7468km
Bike is still going fine regardless of this freezing cold winter. I have even seen the battery voltage drop to 69v a few times under full power. I rode 66km and used 43.8Ah the other day in 4°c weather so it seems the batteries are still happy. This morning was warmer at 9°c and my voltage only dipped to 73.2v at 184A on my way to work. On the weekend I had to QUICKLY get to a shop before they closed so I held full throttle pretty much all the way there and back for the entire 47km. I made it there and back and my "fuel consumption" was 62wh/km!! That's pretty high. I think I used about 41Ah, the motor felt very warm to touch but the temperature led did not light up.
GOOD NEWS!
I have been told a brand new shiny BMS unit has been posted to me and should arrive Monday next week. They are passive BMS units, not the active ones from CHL. This will make me feel a little safer when I go beyone that 40Ah limit knowing it will stop the bike if a cell drops below voltage. When I get a chance to install it, I will upload some photos. I've been told it's fairly small, about the size of 2 decks of cards.
BMS is on its way to me to, maybe we can keep each other updated regarding any installation issues?
Update: 19 June 2012 @ 6838km
Scooter is still going fine, even in the -9°c day we had a while ago. This morning was a nice 9°c morning. I didn't even see the voltage below 73.5v, but the cycle analyst showed a minimum voltage of 72.9v. I didn't notice any loss of power during the freezing cold days but this morning in the 9°c weather, the bike did feel a little quicker.
I heard today from Erider that the BMS may be arriving in a few weeks. They have left china and should be here in OZ soon.
I went for a ride around town after work just for fun. Went to a fresh grocer on the other side of town (24km) just to get some celery. On what other bike would you bother!!
I am really enjoying this electric scooter. As soon as I hit 7000km I think I may strip the entire bike and check every bolt and add lok-tite to them all.
------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012
"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v