ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)
Well, today I tested my scooter and the max RPM on the center stand is 1326!
That would equal a theoretical max speed of 121km/h, so maybe it will do 100+, will know in a week or two. :-)
Wow, Are you running a 24 pack 72v CHL cells? (Peak charge of 87.6v)
Yeah, the only thing in the driveline that differs from your is that you have the bigger Sevcon.
Yeah, the only thing in the driveline that differs from your is that you have the bigger Sevcon.
That, and my weight (120kg). I should get my wife to ride my bike for a bit and measure the power economy then. She's only small
:-)
You are all missing the important point that the behavior, functions and the fun ride of the scooter is because it’s controlled by the PDT software, the Sevcon controller is the power controlled unit. We are using the powerful controller because we aim this scooter to support heavy use as food delivery and any long distance riders.
Today in Israel Pizza Hut is moving to use PDT electric scooters after a year of successful trail with scooters over 12000km.
Now with the 72V 50A fast 20A charger and the correct software we are having over 160km a day with correct managing of the delivery and charging.
You are all missing the important point that the behavior, functions and the fun ride of the scooter is because it’s controlled by the PDT software, the Sevcon controller is the power controlled unit. We are using the powerful controller because we aim this scooter to support heavy use as food delivery and any long distance riders.
Today in Israel Pizza Hut is moving to use PDT electric scooters after a year of successful trail with scooters over 12000km.
Now with the 72V 50A fast 20A charger and the correct software we are having over 160km a day with correct managing of the delivery and charging.
Can you explain what the PDT software is?
Johnny
You are all missing the important point that the behavior, functions and the fun ride of the scooter is because it’s controlled by the PDT software, the Sevcon controller is the power controlled unit. We are using the powerful controller because we aim this scooter to support heavy use as food delivery and any long distance riders.
Today in Israel Pizza Hut is moving to use PDT electric scooters after a year of successful trail with scooters over 12000km.
Now with the 72V 50A fast 20A charger and the correct software we are having over 160km a day with correct managing of the delivery and charging.
Well there's a bug in the software. On slight inclines the scooter struggles to start moving forward. It starts and then cuts most power to the motor so it takes nearly 10 secones to cross an intersection. I have reported this to eRider in Melbourne. Any ideas?
No such bug and no one reported such behavior, this can happen in two cases:
1. Hall sensor interference (maybe because all your testing and adding analyzers)
2. Throttle is out of limit, did you have green flashes when it happened?
You can ask Eric my direct mail or my mobile number to contact me directly on line. I can explain you some testing and programming that I cannot send via the blog.
It’s a full system that control all the functions and behavior of the scooter, you must ride it to understand it.
It’s a full system that control all the functions and behavior of the scooter, you must ride it to understand it.
That´s not a very serious answer, many people on this site (and me) are very experienced when it comes to electric 2-wheelers.
You should take the opportunity to explain why your system is so good.
Johnny
Is your wife's bike as gutless off the line? I'm sure you checked but had to ask to make sure your's isn't a lemon.
Hey, how is the C.A. working for you. I forgot to mention that I had asked ebike.ca to modify mine prior to shipping for a fast maxi-scooter. In emails they stated that I could just remove C6, but when the C.A. arrived it showed a 1nF on the display's protective covering. So, I guess mine was modified to 1nF, anyways it works great. One feature that I didn't mention, is the min voltage level. It shows the max sag on the pack. Make a practice of checking that level at different AH DOD levels. That way, should you accidentally reset the C.A. and lose your AH used, you can use the min voltage level as a gauge to pack DOD.
Hope you get you bike working better,
No such bug and no one reported such behavior, this can happen in two cases:
1. Hall sensor interference (maybe because all your testing and adding analyzers)
2. Throttle is out of limit, did you have green flashes when it happened?
You can ask Eric my direct mail or my mobile number to contact me directly on line. I can explain you some testing and programming that I cannot send via the blog.
I'm letting you know now there is a problem and Eric is also aware of this problem and I was told he will be contacting you.
No, there are no green flashes when it happens, it feels like the controller has just been told to limit battery current. It happens to both me and my wife on both scooters.
In answer to your questions
1. No, can't be that because it happens to my wife's scooter and it hasn't been touched.
2. Not sure about the throttle but there are no green flashes when it happens.
Ok, I'll have a chat to eric about it but I don't have a programming tool and eric is about 750km away :(
It’s a full system that control all the functions and behavior of the scooter, you must ride it to understand it.
That´s not a very serious answer, many people on this site (and me) are very experienced when it comes to electric 2-wheelers.
You should take the opportunity to explain why your system is so good.
Johnny
True. I hold a 4 year university degree in Electronic Engineering and Electrotechnology. Talk as tech as you like.
Anyway, looking at the internals of the bike there is a small box about 5cmx5cm with a bunch of cables going into it. My guess is that it operates an Open CANBUS and communicates to the controller. So when the controller wants to pull more than 115A the "software" detects this and tells the controller to use no more than 115A to give better fuel economy.
Anyway, the intermittant problem from stand still is a little annoying, as long as your not in a hurry to cross a road.
Is your wife's bike as gutless off the line? I'm sure you checked but had to ask to make sure your's isn't a lemon.
Hey, how is the C.A. working for you. I forgot to mention that I had asked ebike.ca to modify mine prior to shipping for a fast maxi-scooter. In emails they stated that I could just remove C6, but when the C.A. arrived it showed a 1nF on the display's protective covering. So, I guess mine was modified to 1nF, anyways it works great. One feature that I didn't mention, is the min voltage level. It shows the max sag on the pack. Make a practice of checking that level at different AH DOD levels. That way, should you accidentally reset the C.A. and lose your AH used, you can use the min voltage level as a gauge to pack DOD.
Hope you get you bike working better,
Yes, my wife's scooter has the same performance as mine. I checked that on the 2nd day :) and every now and then. Even after 1075km on my bike, they both still perform the same. My rear brake just squeaks a bit more than hers now.
Yep, Cycle analyst is going perfect. TRUST me, you do NOT want C6 removed. I emailed just from ebike.ca and told him you need at least a 1nF capacitor to stop the switch debounce from a magnetic or hall sensor. Without it every transient spike counts as a "1" hence the 800km/h speed riding to my drive way :) I used a 10nF because my shop was out of 1nF. I have 2 spare 22nF now, I didn't even bother trying them.
Im right onto the Vmin Scootin. After 46.1Ah used my Vmin was still 70.9v at around 105A
I think the "digital fuel gauge" just measures the minimum voltage to give a fuel remaining, mixed with km travelled. I seriously don't think it counts Ah (as i've been told) because where is the shunt resister? Unless it connects to a shunt inside the sevcon? I notice it has a little external circuit board about 1cm x 1.5cm in heat shrink just hanging free under the dashboard.
Today in Israel Pizza Hut is moving to use PDT electric scooters after a year of successful trail with scooters over 12000km
This is really impressive IFIMotors. Well done!! I hope that I can get 12,000km out of my scooter a year. Was this trial done using CHL cells?
The more of these bikes we get out there, the better!
"Yep, Cycle analyst is going perfect. TRUST me, you do NOT want C6 removed. I emailed just from ebike.ca and told him you need at least a 1nF capacitor to stop the switch debounce from a magnetic or hall sensor. Without it every transient spike counts as a "1" hence the 800km/h speed riding to my drive way :) I used a 10nF because my shop was out of 1nF. I have 2 spare 22nF now, I didn't even bother trying them."
That seems to be an unusual problem. Are the other people with CAs on large scooters here running them without a capacitor in the #6 position at all, or have you replaced it with a different one? I'll be connecting mine shortly, and I may go with my original solution after all: tell the CA that the front wheel is half the circumference it really is, and then double the speed and odometer readings as I read them...
I think the "digital fuel gauge" just measures the minimum voltage to give a fuel remaining, mixed with km travelled. I seriously don't think it counts Ah (as i've been told) because where is the shunt resister? Unless it connects to a shunt inside the sevcon? I notice it has a little external circuit board about 1cm x 1.5cm in heat shrink just hanging free under the dashboard.
From what I have observed so far the "digital fuel gauge" is no more than a voltmeter with a delay/damping of between one and two minutes. The first bar begins to disappear after two minutes below maybe 75V and counts down depending on what voltage the battery was capable of delivering within last two minutes. This morning (10°C) for the first time the last two bars began to blink about two thirds into my 13km morning commute and din't stop blinking until I shut the bike off at work. That would mean once the warning sets in the damped voltmeter function is disabled until the bike is shut off.
This afternoon I had the full reading again, and at home still had about half the bars remaining (@18°C). It is no more than a "guessometer". CA rules!
Hi MEroller.
A "Guessometer" Is a good description. Lol
I've been told a few times that apparently it counts amps and that it "remembers" how many Amps have been used. Yes I lose the first bar within 1km or so. If it remembers, then when I ride 2km I still have 9 bars but when I turn it back on, it ALWAYS drops to 5 bars?
There's no way I could trust the fuel gauge more than the Cycle Analyst.
Imagine the beautiful LCD dash board you could make with all the information coming out of the Cycle Analyst. You could have a giant LCD screen with an emulated speed dial with digital numbers showing the speed as well.
An ACCURATE fuel gauge (just set it for 50Ah) and combined with the wh/km info you could even create an ACCURATE distance till empty number. Odo, trip meter, battery cycles, cost to recharge, damn near everything. I wish the cycle analyst person would team up with the scooter makers to replace a dashboard with all IN-ACCURATE data. Even the trip meter on the LCD gauge is wrong too. It's closer than the mechanical odo on the speedo. That thing is so wrong. It's already 110km too high. The cycle analyst matches perfect with gps for both speed and distance.
Ah I was riding yesterday and on a slight downhill section there was a cop with a speed camera that shows you your speed. It was a 100km/h zone. My speedo said 110+ km/h, cycle analyst 90.2km/h and the sign flashed up 90!!!! Woo!
90km/h downhill, I think mine can do that too at temperatures above 20°C, though it would have to be a tad more than your slight downhill :)
If a policeman is operating such a speed display system it is most likely pretty accurate. Here in Germany the towns sometims put up solar-powered speed displays, and in the past they were usually about as much faster as the usual car speedo is, 5 to 10% on the high side. But recently I have observed that they are getting more precise.
As for the instrumentation of our bikes I would also strongly support a Cycle Analyst-based instrument system, modular in order for ease of adapting to the different dash styles. The only default gauge I trust fairly well is the digital voltmeter that you can't activate, for whatever reasons. Mine tends to read about 1V higher than what I measure with my digtal voltmter, that in no way claims to be correctly calibrated itself. So this digital voltmeter in my dash tells me more or less the actual truth about my battery's state of charge in comparable diriving situations - if I see it continuously dipping below 65V at even less than full throttle I would know that it was high time to charge my baby. However, I never plan to do such range testing, I prefer pampering my cells as well as I can because I will be dependent on them at -10°C too. And that is probably when I will be having to use the voltage range between 65V and 60V (controller cut-off) even with a fully charged battery and gentle throttle operation :-(
And Johnny J, please keep us posted on your PDT Sprinter-Thunder once it hits the road!
Just to update you guys. Amanda and I recorded some video footage of us riding our scooters today. I did my stig impersonation. Lol. So a 1080p video will be up on my YouTube soon once I edit it together. Some funny bits in there too like me going to a petrol station.
I don´t think my scooter is a PDT variant and to be honest I still don´t get what it is..
If you have a good controller and soon a good BMS (hopefully), what else in the driveline needs needs to be controlled by a circuit?
Yesterday my scooter was approved by the "Bilprovningen" same as your TÜV I think, so now I´m just waiting for the plate, will take a week or so.
Johnny, is yours a direct import from China (which would not surprise with your background), or is it from a Swedish importer? And do your papers state Xiamen ZAP EV Manufacturing (motor) or Taizhou Huangyan Yinrongzhou Vehicle Business Co. as manufacturer?
It is a shame things take so long for you, but it appears to be a different system around here: My first errand was to get a guarantee from an insurer (that in itself was quite something because electric two-wheelers are not very common yet), which took quite some research BEFORE my scooter arrived but was eventually done in an hour. Then I went to the registration office with that insurance guarantee and the Certificate of Conformity (with EU regulations) that came with my scooter. I had to wait about 30 minutes till it was my turn, gave the lady the papers and got the license plate number from her, with which I walked 5 minutes to a licence plate maker around the corner who made it within 10 Minutes (because I wanted a special number so he had to change all his digits and letters, else I would have been out of there in half the time), walked back and got my registration documents. All of this was over and done with within a time span of about 2 hours. That the initial proving and rework of the scooter then took my dealer over 4 weeks was another story though...
TÜV or it's equivalents will see the scooter for the first time in about 2 years for the first biennial inspection.
And Pcarlson, I'm looking forward to that video, it sounds like it will be fun to watch :) Thanks for the pic of the connection box, now I finally know what it actually IS, something more like a terminal board. But a VERY good idea, though not really well implemented yet. I would not be happy with that location out in the open with salt spray and all in winter. Below the under seat compartment, above the battery box appears to be a far better protected and yet easily accessible place (we have a removable lid down there), more like what Johnny reported from his Thunder.
Sorry to not answer before, I was on holidays in the south with my bike (race bike no motor).
Concerning the delay I need more information or on what circumstance it happens so I can try and duplicate it in Israel.
We have scooters in heavy use and until today no one complained on such a problem.
It will do easily 12000km our first customer in Israel is using a Sprint PDT 60V 60A and he is with 17000km since 11/2010.
So keep on driving you are doing 1000km a month it will come fast.
Please speak with Eric what to check and inspect on your scooters to prevent problems.
Hi
We realized the same behavior of the VK odometer in Israel. Our battery meter is using the voltage to define the battery situation and counting battery AMP used by controller.
I think that the software on the digital display is not working correctly because on the full digital odometer on the Sprint we don’t have such problem.
We are working on a full new odometer for the VK that will give full information from BMS, Charger and controller.
Eric will have the design in the coming days, hopefully will be available end of this year.
If you are not pleased with it I can explain how to convert it to a voltmeter.
You are correct concerning the Can communication, to be more accurate our system is collecting all analog functions and using them to control the scooter functions.
For example
• Yellow switch is used to enable the system, reverse and manual regen activation.
• Smart regen with 5 options (ask Eric for it)
• Over riding side stand problem (if the side brakes you can over ride it and drive)
• Fault detection with display
• On board driver information (on the Sprint full odometer, will be as well on VK soon) kill switch, side stand, system fault, low voltage, BMS warning, battery meter.
Since we are controlling all functions by software it’s very easy to modify and customize scooter behavior to fleets or private use.
Yes, direct import from Xiamen Zap. I thought the registration process was similar in the EU, but it doesn´t seem so.
First you have to apply for a "control of origin", where you supply the COC, invoice and custom papers, this takes a couple of weeks.
Then you have to book time for a control at the "Bilprovningen", where they check VIN, motor number and that it corresponds to the COC.
After this you will get a plate number and it takes a few days before you are sent one, then you need an insurance to drive it.
On new vehicles the first inspection is done after 4 years.
The guy at "Bilprovningen" told me they are checking chinese imports very carefully right now because there are alot of counterfeit COCs around..
Thanks for the details, Johnny, that makes the picture clearer: Your Thunder will most likely have most of the PDT package, but probably without that additional CAN software and a smaller controller that does not need to be reined-in by such a CAN software.
Meaning Sevcon G8018 controller, motor with thicker leads for less thermal losses, "connection box" for easier disconnection of motor leads in case of tire changes, and 24 CHL 40...50Ah low-impedance cells still missing a BMS. You have the electronic speedo and the digital odo-/trip-/volt- and "Guessometer" up front, your rear springs are most probably coated in white and reportedly softer than my black 2010 ones, and the LH motor cover sports a ring around the outer circumfrence with a spoke-like design. The latter three being the general halmarks of a 2011 5/8kW Thunder.
Counterfeit COC's, that could change the game around here, too... :(
I disagree, performance will be different since our PDT driveline has its own settings. Its true that that the controller is Sevcon but the settings are PDT.
I have some FUN news people!!
My wife and I did some video-ing this weekend and I JUST finished editing it all together in my usual style (LORD Sn1per Productions). Wow, so many effects I love it!! The final video is about 5m30s and is 800mb in all of its 1080p GLORY!
I'm uploading it to YouTube right now and it says 12% and 211 minutes remaining :). Let's hope they don't cut the quality down too much.
As soon as it's up I'll let you guys know. I even mentioned Erider and PDT.
So FINALLY people out there can actually get to see more than a 20 second low res youtube clip of these fantastic scooters in action!! Including me overtaking a truck in a 100km/h zone.
Awesome music too...unless youtube has a whinge about that too?
A question: What you recorded on your - so far - newest youtube clip, "ERider 5000w rear wheel", was that a recording of your PDT scooter already? I ask because it sounds exactly like my Kelly-propelled motor, far from silent...
As for music, if it is not properly licenced from the copyright owner Youtube will not show the video here in Germany. I hope your music is public domain...
Eidt: Nope it isn't public domain, viewing here in Germany is not possible due to copyright violation as it reportedly contains Music from UMG. GEMA, the German company that takes care of music rights has not allowed it's use. Would it be possible to upload a version with either your own music on it or some public domain stuff, or just with the original soundtrack? Pweeeese...
Yeah, the only thing in the driveline that differs from your is that you have the bigger Sevcon.
That, and my weight (120kg). I should get my wife to ride my bike for a bit and measure the power economy then. She's only small
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eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012
"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v