Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

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lacitibi
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Joined: 07/12/2011
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The story:
There was 3 dead battery and bought 9 secondhand batteries and changed rather 9 of them cos I mesaured that those are not right.I had 12000km in the old batteries and what I bought 9 they were only at 6000km.
I tried to make them at the same level by voltage to mine ones and put it in.
It worked good but I knew it needs time for the newer batteries to equalize.
I have used it for 1000km and was ok but not 100%.

I was using it and a month ago put it away due to weather.
So I remember when finished using it there was 3 bars and 17km range dispayed.
Ok left it like that but knew I need to charge it to something like 80% to make shure batteries will be ok to store.
Went today and wanted to charge it but there is a big problem as it starts ok but now it shows 10 bars and 0km.
I plug the charger and is starting but for only like 15sec and switch itself off like it`s got enough power in the batteries.I left it on for few hours and the bars gone down to 4 but when I plug it on charge it goes up to 10 bars again in few sec and swithes off.
What`s happening few cells are dead again or is it just really unbalanced?
Did someone have the same experience?

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robert93
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

sounds like you may have replaced bad batteries with worse ones. Testing the batteries voltage at rest is not going to really tell you the condition of the cells. Did you stress test them? They may have gone from a "static" good reading to a flat dead "loaded" voltage. Just a thought......

BLUESTREAK
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

HI: You need to read the link here on the "v" that's titled (FLAT BATTERY-I THINK) it sounds like your battery has droped below the voltage that is required to make the CHARGER start. first can you check the voltage with a v-meter or do you have the up-dated software that"s lets you read it by haveing (SWITCH ON-FLIP KILL SWITCH TO OFF-AND SQUEZZE LEFT BRAK LEAVER) then the dash will show the temp-and voltage.you may be in need of a (150VOLT-0.3AMP)POWER SUPPLY) unless your good at electonics and making things with them. GOOD DAY COOPER

antiscab
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Points: 1599
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

If the bars are going up and down,
it means the display is using the voltage reported by the MC to drive the guage.

The most likely reason is the Charger is no longer reporting anything to the CAN bus.

On several firmware revisions, the charger will start charging for 10 sec, then stop if it is not seeing any data reported from the temp sensors.

The most likely problems is either a fault in the CAN bus wiring, or the chargers own CAN bus communication board is stuffed....

If bars are showing, the battery is still likely to be ok.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Mik
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Points: 3727
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

This is not a faulty battery problem. It could be anything. For example: A mouse has eaten a cable somewhere. Or a software issue.

I suggest:

1) Pull off connectors to charger. Check by looking at them. Clean them. Put back on properly.

2) Do the same with connectors on motor controller.

3) Hard reset: Open the blue Andersons connector. Use "Inrush Current Limiter" to reconnect it.

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lacitibi
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I`m going to open it up as soon as have a little time and will clean all connection and mesaure voltage.
Unfortunately I did not stress them when I put the other batteries in.
I did not use Inrush Current Limiter when opened it previously?
Why do I need it to reconnect the connectors?
Hope the cleaning and the cut off will help to me.:)
If the voltage is too low I`m gonna jump start the 8 and the 9 cells just a little with the normal car battery charger like 5 mins and 4 mins charge each that should do the job.
How to check sw version anyway?
I would like to know what is on mine.

antiscab
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Points: 1599
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

I`m going to open it up as soon as have a little time and will clean all connection and mesaure
voltage.
Unfortunately I did not stress them when I put the other batteries in.

The the faulty connection may be in the temp sensor wiring, I have seen faulty temp sensors cause the charger to lose CAN bus connectivity before...

The voltage probably isn't the issue, but worth checking anyway

lacitibi wrote:

I did not use Inrush Current Limiter when opened it previously?
Why do I need it to reconnect the connectors

To prevent the MC's capacitors from charging up too quickly.
If you don't pre-charge them, theres a 1 in 10 chance they will explode

If you are lucky not all of them do and the MC is still usable.
If not, a replacement is US$1500, if you can get one.

You can use a normal light bulb for precharge, its cheap.

lacitibi wrote:

Hope the cleaning and the cut off will help to me.:)
If the voltage is too low I`m gonna jump start the 8 and the 9 cells just a little with the normal car battery charger like 5 mins and 4 mins charge each that should do the job.

If you are going to charge the pack, i suggest charging at no more than 2A, and I suggest doing it to the whole battery for 24 hrs.

That will balance out the cells.

If you only charge some and not others, it will cause problems with balance and will lead to early cell failure (overdischarge or overcharge of individual cells)

lacitibi wrote:

How to check sw version anyway?
I would like to know what is on mine.

If when you put the killswitch in off position, and pull left brake lever,
if you see battery voltage and temp, your software is new enough.

If your top speed is 115kmh, your software is the newest.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Mik
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Points: 3727
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

...
...
Why do I need it to reconnect the connectors?
...
...

Read this thread, it explains the ICL: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7996-main-fuse-now-clarification-icl-inrush-current-limiter

There are other posts about it in the handbook, too.

__________________

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

First of all thank u for everyone how is trying to help me.
So I realised that I have not the oldest and not the latest firmware as I can check battery temp but my top speed was 105km/h unfortunately.:)(actually I think all vectrix meter cheats 8-10km/h on speed or just mine?)
That means the charging part is ok in firmware is`n it?
I really hope I can totally check it out what is happening in 2-3 days then I can say more.

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

antiscab][quote=lacitibi wrote:

I`m going to open it up as soon as have a little time and will clean all connection and mesaure
voltage.
Unfortunately I did not stress them when I put the other batteries in.

The the faulty connection may be in the temp sensor wiring, I have seen faulty temp sensors cause the charger to lose CAN bus connectivity before...

I had some time to open it up again.
U were right I`ve seen that one of the top temp sensor burnt out.(batteries at 122v and seems equal at 1.2v each)
I mesaured that the next sensor is 50ohms so gonna put 50ohms smd resistor or any I find instead the burnt one just to check if the charging will start or not.
Hope I`m lucky and that is the only prob.
Thank u.

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I went out to change the resistor but before I would do took the temp sensor board out too cos it was very strange to me that a temp resistor 50ohms not like 10kohms as normal.
I was shocked.....
1 of the ics burnt out too.(the biggest one)made these pics http://www.mypicx.com/11142011/vectrix_temp_board/
Why did this happen?
How to get this fixed now?
How can this be happen when the bike was fully working before I put it away?
Is it something I can buy?
Full board or ic?
Will I need a sensor too?
Please anyone can help contact me on lacitibi@vipmail.hu
Thnx

Mik
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Points: 3727
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

I went out to change the resistor but before I would do took the temp sensor board out too cos it was very strange to me that a temp resistor 50ohms not like 10kohms as normal.
I was shocked.....
1 of the ics burnt out too.(the biggest one)made these pics http://www.mypicx.com/11142011/vectrix_temp_board/
Why did this happen?
How to get this fixed now?
How can this be happen when the bike was fully working before I put it away?
Is it something I can buy?
Full board or ic?
Will I need a sensor too?
Please anyone can help contact me on lacitibi@vipmail.hu
Thnx

Interesting! I have never seen this before. Well spotted!

Many temperature sensors fail in the VX-1, maybe this is due to the IC burning out?

__________________

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I think the ic burnt out due to sensor or one of the wire was touching some power of the battery.
Really don`t know but that is more logical.
Now what I really would need to find out the writing on top of that ic cos it`s not complete anymore.
I belive gonna find an ic like that if I could indetify.My only prob is that it looks micro controller so then I will need the content too.
Also would like to know about sensors if some know that what is the resistance in kohm.
Is that enough to replace the right resistor or Is it doing something else too apart from that it`s very close to the battery and the resistor will heat up and change it`s value?
Please who knows about these things help!

antiscab
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Points: 1599
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I would see if the bike charges with one of the temp sensors disconnected.
some firmware versions allow it, others don't

So, I would disconnect that temp sensor from the CAN bus, and find out.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

lacitibi
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Joined: 07/12/2011
Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

Hi Matt,
Good to hear u.
I tried without it and is not charging just like before starts,bars go up and shuts down.
Can u please help to find out that ic what is written on it?

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I`ve got one step further.
I removed the other temp board and it`s got the same parts so it should be exactly the same board as the back one.
I`m gonna remove the pic micro controller and read content if not protected then buy an ic and write it in to that and really hope the back and the front temp boards does exactly the same thing and the bike will work finally.
But if it`s protected which I think it is I need to buy a temp board.
Where can I buy it?

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

Mik wrote:

Interesting! I have never seen this before. Well spotted!

Many temperature sensors fail in the VX-1, maybe this is due to the IC burning out?

I`ve seen ur other posts that u are quiet familiar with these things.
May u have the content of temp board (pic 16f677) can u please let me know.
Do u think is it possible to fix this or should I leave it and try to find another board?
Also would like to know (just an idea) is it possible to wire it only to one board and work with it like 2 boards giving the same signal?

Mik
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:
Mik wrote:

Interesting! I have never seen this before. Well spotted!

Many temperature sensors fail in the VX-1, maybe this is due to the IC burning out?

I`ve seen ur other posts that u are quiet familiar with these things.
May u have the content of temp board (pic 16f677) can u please let me know.
Do u think is it possible to fix this or should I leave it and try to find another board?
Also would like to know (just an idea) is it possible to wire it only to one board and work with it like 2 boards giving the same signal?

The temp sensors in my "Vectux" have only recently started to play up - and I don't care any more! The measurements are wrong (about 6degC too high) and the battery symbol often keeps flashing away - so what? I don't even know if it is due to a software malfunction or a temp sensor malfunction (or a fried IC).

Contrary to the appearance that my posts might convey to a casual observer, I am not really familiar with much of this. I have only "dug in" to some issues because they needed fixing in the one VX-1 that I own. That's all. If it's not broken on the Vectux, then I don't know much at all about it...and IC programming is really way beyond my current capabilities.

However, I think I have posted some photos of the temp sensor boards before, but cannot find them right now. They should be in the "Handbook" somewhere.

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This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

I`ve seen ur other posts that u are quiet familiar with these things.
May u have the content of temp board (pic 16f677) can u please let me know.
Do u think is it possible to fix this or should I leave it and try to find another board?

I can't say I've tried to fix a temp sensor board before

In every Vectrix I have seen, at least one temperature reading is wrong

I will have a good temp sensor board in a couple of weeks if you are interested.

Btw - if the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback, than you will need both boards

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

ofx210p
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Points: 375
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

"the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback"

Unless you use the older charger and motor contoller firmware code of course as found on my vx-1 when the temp sensors were faulty.
(not recommended though as not knowing the temps is not a clever thing to do)

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

antiscab wrote:

I can't say I've tried to fix a temp sensor board before

In every Vectrix I have seen, at least one temperature reading is wrong

I will have a good temp sensor board in a couple of weeks if you are interested.

Btw - if the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback, than you will need both boards

Matt

What do u mean about "if the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback, than you will need both boards"
The front board is ok hopefully and the back one gone.
Do u mean maybe the content of micro controller won`t match to each other?
Or why would I need 2 boards?
And of course I`m interested in buying it.

lacitibi
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

ofx210p wrote:

"the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback"

Unless you use the older charger and motor contoller firmware code of course as found on my vx-1 when the temp sensors were faulty.
(not recommended though as not knowing the temps is not a clever thing to do)

Yeah I know that to use it without knowing the temp is not clever.
What I decided if downgrade the software then I`m going to make a simple temp board just to see what the temp is of the batteries.
Better than nothing.

Mik
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

...

Yeah I know that to use it without knowing the temp is not clever.
What I decided if downgrade the software then I`m going to make a simple temp board just to see what the temp is of the batteries.
Better than nothing.

Good idea - and when I wrote above that I don't care any more about the malfunctioning temp sensors, I forgot to point out that I can be somewhat relaxed about it because I have 6 additional temp sensors that still work (part of the manual BMS I concocted into the Vectux).

It's pot luck if a failing cell is located close enough to a stock temp sensor.

My additional sensors are located in the air intake, under the front battery, one on top of each battery and 2 are silicon-glued to 2 different inter-module connectors. The sensors on the inter-module connectors give the most accurate readings of battery temperature, the others measure the air temperature around the battery and can be quite off when the impellers are running.

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antiscab
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

What do u mean about "if the charger won't run without temp sensor feedback, than you will need both boards"
The front board is ok hopefully and the back one gone.
Do u mean maybe the content of micro controller won`t match to each other?
Or why would I need 2 boards?

The charger software looks for the data from both boards,
if one is missing it won't charge.

Having said that,
If you load the lairds firmware revision, than you can run with just one board

The temp sensor boards seem to be a common failure point, I have yet to see a Vectrix with temp sensors that don't report odd temperatures....

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

lacitibi
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Joined: 07/12/2011
Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

If I would downgrade the sw I need to buy can bus adapter.
How much would that temp board be when u get it?
How much is the cheapest can bus adapter for vectrix?
What is ur advice what should I do get the temp board or buy canbus adapter and downgrade the sw?
Thnx

Mik
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I wonder if it's worth it buying a new/used temp sensor board. Would it not be very likely to also fail soon?

If you do not have access to a reliable service centre, then the CAN to USB adapter is an important tool if you want a good chance to keep the VX-1 running well.

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

lacitibi
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

Yes I was wondering about that.
Do u know how much the lowest price be for a canbus adapter?
What does it do exactly?
Is it only an adapter between the vectrix`s serial port and a usb port or it`s got something special data too?

antiscab
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Points: 1599
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

lacitibi wrote:

Do u know how much the lowest price be for a canbus adapter?
What does it do exactly?
Is it only an adapter between the vectrix`s serial port and a usb port or it`s got something special data too?

This is the only one that I know works:
http://www.gridconnect.com/usbcanin.html

some of the drivers this USB-CAN adapter uses are necessary for the diagnostic software

Everyone that I know of who has tried to use any other type of adapter has not been successful (so far)

If loading The Lairds new firmware, I wouldn't bother with replacing the temp sensors...

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

My only question is now that how to get the softwares and the diagnostic program.
Thnx.

lacitibi
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Points: 24
Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

I just ordered this: http://www.gridconnect.com/usbcanin.html
Now waiting to get it.
I downloaded all the staff needed so will let u know when the pcan usb adapter arrived.

R
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Re: Please help something bad is happening to my vectrix!

great!

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