yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

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Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me with some insights into a problem.

I bought a 2007 Vectrix with a burnt out motor controller last year and a mate has fixed it for me - he is an electrical engineer and also owns a vectrix. The batteries were very flat (2.2v) and the same mate also brought over an external charger to get the process started. I have since charged the bike on its own charger for 8-10 hours to the point that it switched itself off twice, the gauge is full and the voltage is showing 148.

The problem is that the yellow wrench shows while the bike is charging and, when I start the bike up, it goes through a normal boot up and then the yellow wrench and the canbus error come on 1-2 seconds after boot and then stay.

There is a video here - http://youtu.be/nfQVqQqxCek and a photo of the dash during charging here

When it is in this state the headlight is not on, the horn doesn't work, etc. I have tried start up with the side stand up and down - no difference and the side stand light doesn't show. I have tried rolling the bike around the shed to see if it was a "motor indexing issue", no luck. Interestingly if I roll it backwards quickly the reverse light on the dash come on.

I have tried starting it about 30-40 times either in quick succession or with a wait between tries, over a coupe of days now. I have also left the bike on for over an hour, but no change.

All other reports in this forum say that this is a temporary annoyance, but this is crippling the bike.

Any help, thoughts or probing questions greatly appreciated.

Cheers

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Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Apologies to all for the multiple post - I was using Chrome and it was generating errors - now using FireFox and am embarrassed.

Mods, please delete the first two posts if possible.

Gedrod

HarryS
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Joined: 10/08/2008
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Is the kill switch off?

X Vectrix
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Joined: 08/04/2009
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

This could indicate a throttle problem
When you have the kill switch in the off position and pull the left brake, does the speedo needle respond to throttle changes?

Gedrod
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi,
The bike will boot with the kill switch on or off. I have tried all sorts of things with the switch in both positions - doesn't seem to make a difference.
Thanks

Gedrod
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi X Vectrix,
I'll give the switch/brake/thottle thing a go and report back.

Cheers

Mik
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Points: 3726
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Maybe the "burned out motor controller" is not really repaired?

How was it tested after the repair?

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antiscab
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Gedrod wrote:

I bought a 2007 Vectrix with a burnt out motor controller last year and a mate has fixed it for me - he is an electrical engineer and also owns a vectrix. The batteries were very flat (2.2v) and the same mate also brought over an external charger to get the process started.

The charger drives most of the warning and indication guages IIRC (or it maybe the ICM)

The MC doesn't really have much to do with the horn and headlight not working.

when installing a new MC, you will generally need to recalibrate the position sensor
Theres a specific sequence of pulling the brake levers while turning on to get it to do this
I can't remember the exact sequence, but a bit of google-fu will get you there

It is probable your ICM and charger have issues

did you get this bike of charles?
he's been selling scavenged bikes for a while now

the battery at 2.2v means several cells are reversed and have been held reversed for some time
Those cells will generally have much higher self discharge, and won't be usable, but we'll come to that problem after the hardware issues are sorted

when you pull the brake levers, does the brake light come on?

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Thanks for the suggestions Matt. I have seen that info on the calibration sequence, I'll give it a go but I don't think that the bike will respond - will report back tonight (I'm in Tasmania).

Re: brake light, no, the brake lights don't come on when the lever is pulled.

I got the bike from Dave Jenkins in Victoria. Its 2007 serial 1722 and has just 1200km on the clock, I'm very keen to get this nearly new bike on the road.

Cheers,
Gerry

R
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Points: 1388
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

x Vectrix, maybe the Control Module (ICM)has some kind of problem?

heathyoung
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Joined: 07/27/2011
Points: 59
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Yep its probably the BCM (body control module) behind the dash. They arn't coded to the bikes like most car BCM's so you should be OK to swap one to try it.

Gedrod
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Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Thanks Heath. I think that this is the first mention of the BCM in this forum (and a web search showed nothing useful). Is it the same as the ICM?
Is the module specific to the Vectrix or are there substitutes?

Cheers,
Gerry

Gedrod
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Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi,
I just wanted to report back on (no) progress and answer some earlier questions. Again thanks for all the help and suggestions.

I tried the motor recalibration-brake/throttle-key on-thingy, both of the ones in the collaborative manual - no result, the bike just stays in the same state with the dash on and the wrench/canbus error. The only flicker of any response was when I rotated the wheel backwards, the R light showed on the dash momentarily. I did wonder if someone was having a laugh with the "hold the throttle full open and hold the left brake lever and then turn the key" (you try it!) I briefly considered using my third arm but then I tied the brake lever with a bit of wire.

I pulled the front panels off the bike to get access to the ICM (and I wish I had found the easy way before I removed so much other body work, but you live and learn). I removed the ICM, opened it up, there is nothing obviously burnt, I replaced it and tried the boot up again - same result as before. So if it is the ICM I'll need another to swap in (2 mates with Vs locally if I can convince them), or I need a way of testing this one - any suggestions?

So the saga continues but I am very appreciative of the help and I'm learning things!

Cheers,
Gerry

X Vectrix
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Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 235
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Just for kicks, disconnect the 10 pin gray connector behind the ICM. You'll probably remove some skin from your knuckles. Then see if it boots up correctly.

Drew
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hmm, I have a bike with a similar problem here in the UK. I have no power to lights, indicators , horn. No brake light. No 'ready' or 'go' light. The bike will charge up ok when it's plugged in.

It seems like all or the vast majority of 12v rail (and other outputs) doesn't work - I haven't had a lot of time yet to really get to get to grips with testing it but wondered if these symptoms point to something in particular that I haven't thought of already. As always, help very much appreciated. As the bike's not here at the mo, I can't remember whether the side stand light illuminates or not. Think it has the same roll backwards and 'R' reverse warning light though. I've not looked at the ICM, but am sure that I read another post a while back that there is a resettable fuse somewhere on it - is this the case?

Thanks chaps - will let you know how I get on, pending bringing up young family (i.e. progress might be a bit slow!)

Gerry, if you do get to the bottom of the fault, be great to hear about it. I'll compare notes!

Best wishes,

Drew

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MEroller
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Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Does the VX1 not have anything alike a DC/DC-converter that runs on battery voltage an reduces that to 12...13.5V DC to run all the currently not working paraphernalia? That is what all the cheapo electric scoots have, and the VX1 MUST have such a device too.

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Gedrod
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Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

My simple understanding of the operation of the bike is that all of those functions such as horn, lights, etc feed into, and are controlled by, the ICM which is, I guess, why it is possible to do things like this: http://www.youtube.com/user/EnergyFromAll i.e. reprogram the operation of many of the knobs and buttons, etc. There is a block diagram part way down this page that may help explain it a bit more.

I agree with you though a bit of simplicity here would be welcome - I could probably rewire a 20 y.o car but the Vectrix has be stumped.
G

heathyoung
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Joined: 07/27/2011
Points: 59
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

BCM is an auto electrical term, not sure what vectrix decided to call them. I do have one at home as a spare I can lend you to test if need be.

The 12V DC:DC converter is the smaller black block on the vectrix's MC board.

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi all,
I have a further update. By following various suggestions and some pretty furious googling, I came to the conclusion that my ICM is dead. I removed it and swapped it into my friend's bike and his bike replicated the same error.

So I need to resurect my ICM.

I have a canbus adapter (I got it to flash the charger and motor controller with TheLairds handy work, although haven't set it up yet). I have looked around the forums here and while there is quite a lot of talk about modifying the ICM firmware I don't see hex files posted. Are these available?

Any help on how to proceed from here would be excellent.

If this fails I'll need a new ICM.

Cheers

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1598
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

I have copy, I'll PM you a link

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Thanks Matt, got it. Now for a fun afternoon!
Gerry

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi Matt,
I have the canbus adapter all set up and working and connected to the bike. I can see all of the basic stats, etc in ScooterDiag, so the connection and software all seem fine.

I have tried to flash the ICM using the ICM Test function, it works for a while (and excitingly the yellow wrench disappears) but then it reports an error "did not receive Proceed DM15, address 0x800". Any idea what this is or how to overcome it?

Cheers,
Gerry

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

I just discovered that the same error "did not receive Proceed DM15, address 0x800" occurs if you run ScooterDiag and then attempt to program the ICM when the laptop is not even attached to the canbus.
So I'm interpreting this as a sign that there is absolutely no response form the ICM when the laptop is attached to the bike, and that the ICM is dead - well not strictly completely dead since if I pull the ICM out then the bike won't boot, when I put it back in then the bike boots, dash lights up and repsonds to the ScooterDiag, etc.

I have managed to flash the charger and motor controller with The Lairds files. So I know ScooterDiag/canbus/drivers are OK.

Does anyone have any information on how to use the other port mounted on the ICM PC board?
Or does anyone know where I can get another ICM?

Cheers,
Gerry

Gedrod
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Joined: 09/23/2011
Points: 26
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Hi all,
Just an update on my Vectrix. ITS WORKING!!!! Turns out a mate had a spare ICM in a box of parts that he bought, plugged it in, worked first time. That was four days ago and I'm still trying to explore the range/battery conditioning, etc. Getting it registered tomorrow. Happy Happy.

Aircon
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Joined: 12/23/2009
Points: 425
Re: yellow wrench, canbus error, won't go away

Gedrod wrote:

Hi all,
Just an update on my Vectrix. ITS WORKING!!!! Turns out a mate had a spare ICM in a box of parts that he bought, plugged it in, worked first time. That was four days ago and I'm still trying to explore the range/battery conditioning, etc. Getting it registered tomorrow. Happy Happy.

You have a mate who bought a box of parts, and one just happened to be an ICM? I want a mate like that!

Congrats.

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