Vectix Problem

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jmap
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The video speaks for itself...
Video

When is turned on, Vectrix always have difficulties on starting. This only happen on the first start, the problem disappears until the bike is turned off.

Since this problem happens only on startup, maybe can be something related to synchronism between controller and gearbox/motor?

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jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

Hello People

(missed paste)
Can anybody indentify this problem?

Thanks

Mik
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Re: Vectix Problem

Try waiting for 10-20 seconds before "opening the throttle". That will probably prevent the problem from occurring.

If that fixes the problem, then it is related to a lack of power in the 12V system at startup. When you open the throttle, the Motor Controller Fan powers up, that increases the load further. That in turn drops the 12V system's voltage further, so that one or more of the IC's fail due to lack of 12V power.

Do you have a HID lamp installed? That can also cause the problem, because it draws increased amounts of 12V power until it is fully lit.

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jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

Mik wrote:

Try waiting for 10-20 seconds before "opening the throttle". That will probably prevent the problem from occurring.

If that fixes the problem, then it is related to a lack of power in the 12V system at startup. When you open the throttle, the Motor Controller Fan powers up, that increases the load further. That in turn drops the 12V system's voltage further, so that one or more of the IC's fail due to lack of 12V power.

Do you have a HID lamp installed? That can also cause the problem, because it draws increased amounts of 12V power until it is fully lit.

Thanks Mik, I'll try it. The bike is new, no lamps has been changed.

X Vectrix
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Re: Vectix Problem

Its either the encoder or one of the phases is not working correctly. Does this happen every time, or does it start correctly sometimes? If it starts correctly sometimes then the encoder probably has a bad sector on it. If it does this all the time, then its probably a phase. Does the reverse do this if you go forward first? And does this happen every time you stop then start movement (w/o cycling the key) or just the first time you start movement?

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

X Vectrix wrote:

Its either the encoder or one of the phases is not working correctly. Does this happen every time, or does it start correctly sometimes? If it starts correctly sometimes then the encoder probably has a bad sector on it. If it does this all the time, then its probably a phase. Does the reverse do this if you go forward first? And does this happen every time you stop then start movement (w/o cycling the key) or just the first time you start movement?

Thanks for your answer.
This happens every time the bikes starts, going forward or reverse. After that and until the bike is turned off (on key), doesn't happen again. Only the first movement has the problem, no matter if it goes forward or reverses. The second and next movements are fine.

CO2
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Re: Vectix Problem

strange....

R
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Re: Vectix Problem

I've never seen this behaviour in a vectrix before, maybe the encoder needs recalibration.

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

R wrote:

I've never seen this behaviour in a vectrix before, maybe the encoder needs recalibration.

I'm such a lucky guy :-(
If it is that the case, how can it be done?

R
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Re: Vectix Problem

you have a PM.

X Vectrix
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Re: Vectix Problem

In that case its probably a dirty encoder. Whats is likely happening is that the MC cannot get a good reading from the commutation tracks during the first movements. Eventually it gets a reading then switches to the incremental tracks. From then on its good. Try removing the encoder cover and cleaning the encoder with compressed air.

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

X Vectrix wrote:

In that case its probably a dirty encoder. Whats is likely happening is that the MC cannot get a good reading from the commutation tracks during the first movements. Eventually it gets a reading then switches to the incremental tracks. From then on its good. Try removing the encoder cover and cleaning the encoder with compressed air.

Ok. I'll try it too if recalibration doesn't work.

Also, what Mik suggests works but with 30s (not 20s). If we wait 30s before the first movement, the problem disappear. Can it be the encoder or the lack of power in 12V just like Mik said?

X Vectrix
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Re: Vectix Problem

If the encoder wasnt calibrated the motor would not run at all...well it might run but it would be inefficient and lack power if it were slightly out of cal. If the encoder lacked power, the motor would not run at all. The MC would have no way of knowing where to place the field in the stator. My guess would be that spinning or stationary, the MC eventually gets an encoder signal it can use to at least turn the motor in the right direction.
Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this). If it turns smoothly, then the problem is most likely the encoder. Sometimes oil leaks thru the seal and gets on the encoder disk and forms a skin in the tracks.
Dont forget to raise the rear wheel.

X Vectrix
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Re: Vectix Problem

If the encoder wasnt calibrated the motor would not run at all...well it might run but it would be inefficient and lack power if it were slightly out of cal. If the encoder lacked power, the motor would not run at all. The MC would have no way of knowing where to place the field in the stator. My guess would be that spinning or stationary, the MC eventually gets an encoder signal it can use to at least turn the motor in the right direction.
Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this). If it turns smoothly, then the problem is most likely the encoder. Sometimes oil leaks thru the seal and gets on the encoder disk and forms a skin in the tracks.
Dont forget to raise the rear wheel.

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

X Vectrix wrote:

If the encoder wasnt calibrated the motor would not run at all...well it might run but it would be inefficient and lack power if it were slightly out of cal. If the encoder lacked power, the motor would not run at all. The MC would have no way of knowing where to place the field in the stator. My guess would be that spinning or stationary, the MC eventually gets an encoder signal it can use to at least turn the motor in the right direction.
Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this). If it turns smoothly, then the problem is most likely the encoder. Sometimes oil leaks thru the seal and gets on the encoder disk and forms a skin in the tracks.
Dont forget to raise the rear wheel.

Hello. Thanks for your explanation. So it seems that you recommend a encoder cleaning... right?

Can you explain the procedure better (when you say):
"Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this)."
Is this to be done inside Vectrix Diagnostic program? Sorry I am not a pro on this...

Thanks

antiscab
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Re: Vectix Problem

jmap wrote:

Can you explain the procedure better (when you say):
"Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this)."
Is this to be done inside Vectrix Diagnostic program? Sorry I am not a pro on this...

With bike off, go to full throttle while holding the right brake on while turning the bike on.

That sets the bike to recalibrate with the encoder

make sure the wheel is off the ground (very important)

Matt

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Mik
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Re: Vectix Problem

jmap wrote:
X Vectrix wrote:

If the encoder wasnt calibrated the motor would not run at all...well it might run but it would be inefficient and lack power if it were slightly out of cal. If the encoder lacked power, the motor would not run at all. The MC would have no way of knowing where to place the field in the stator. My guess would be that spinning or stationary, the MC eventually gets an encoder signal it can use to at least turn the motor in the right direction.
Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this). If it turns smoothly, then the problem is most likely the encoder. Sometimes oil leaks thru the seal and gets on the encoder disk and forms a skin in the tracks.
Dont forget to raise the rear wheel.

Hello. Thanks for your explanation. So it seems that you recommend a encoder cleaning... right?

Can you explain the procedure better (when you say):
"Rather than recalibrating the encoder with the secret handshake, test the phases by holding the other brake lever during power up. The wheel should rotate smoothly in the forward direction (it does not use the encoder feedback to do this)."
Is this to be done inside Vectrix Diagnostic program? Sorry I am not a pro on this...

Thanks

See this page: http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/10431

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

Thank you to you all. I will try it soon, then I let you know...

kingcharles
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Re: Vectix Problem

just curious about one thing. If the bike is so new, is it not possible to claim warranty in stead of trying yourself?

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jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

kingcharles wrote:

just curious about one thing. If the bike is so new, is it not possible to claim warranty in stead of trying yourself?

The bike is new but was bought without warranty. That was the deal. Some risk at a good price.

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

Well. Problem solved. Thanks for your help!

The low pressure air spray on the encoder and disk and didn't worked. Then we changed the ring and the mirror (from another bike) and still nothing. The problem was solved when we changed the circuit that has the encoder. That's so small that it is impossible to see if it is damaged... Anyone knows where can I buy it outside Vectrix?

Thanks one more time!

X Vectrix
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Re: Vectix Problem

Good to hear it.
The encoders are custom for the VX1.

jmap
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Re: Vectix Problem

X Vectrix wrote:

Good to hear it.
The encoders are custom for the VX1.

Ok Thanx.

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