Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the differences?

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jstibal
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Joined: 03/17/2008
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I'm curious what the differences are between the new production scooters and the test-pilot scooters. Certainly the dash and instrumentation are a huge difference and they're now made near Lansing by Dakkota Systems, but I was wondering if anyone knew of and could describe any other changes.

Thanks,

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Jon Stibal
2008 EVT America Z-20A
2011 CMC C130 - my daily driver:

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

Hi Jon,

There are three main areas of differences between Generation 1 (Test Pilot bikes) and Generation 1.5 (2012 Model Year bikes):

1) Charger upgrade. This will be retrofitted to the Generation 1 bikes. We've changed suppliers and also moved to a fanless based design. The upgrade is non-trivial as the mounting is different and requires some welding operations.

2) Digital Dash and Instrumentation. We will be retrofitting the secondary LCD (the small square LCD) to the Generation 1 bikes. This will replace the amp meter on the right hand side of the dashboard. The primary touchscreen LCD, GPS and GSM modem portions of the new digital dashboard will not be retrofitted. This is primarily because to do so would require a complete teardown to acheive this (see next). There's a thread earlier in this sub-forum that discusses details of the LCD.

3) Wiring harness and BCU enclosure upgrades. We've made upgrades to the wiring harness and to the BCU enclosure. We've also added hardware within the BCU to "talk" to the digital dashboard. We cannot feasibly upgrade Generation 1 bikes with these updgrades because it requires a complete teardown of the bike to implement the new wiring harness.

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John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

jstibal
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Joined: 03/17/2008
Points: 45
Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

John,

Thanks for the info. The reason I asked is two-fold:

  • As we (the test pilots) talk to others, we can accurately describe the differences between our scooters and what's being produced now
  • It will effect test pilots decisions on upgrading

And as a test pilot, I very much appreciate the work CMC is doing to get our scooters as close to production as reasonably possible.

Thanks again.

__________________

Jon Stibal
2008 EVT America Z-20A
2011 CMC C130 - my daily driver:

PJD
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Points: 1246
Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

John,

Will the updates have a solution to that "brp-brp-bp-bp-bpp-p-p-pt" noise and vibration from the motor when bringing the scooter to a stop? As you recall the regen cutoff below 5 mph in the latest software didnt quite fix it. Other than that, all the bugs seem to be shaken out and it is running great...

Paul D.

MEroller
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Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

PJD wrote:

Will the updates have a solution to that "brp-brp-bp-bp-bpp-p-p-pt" noise and vibration from the motor when bringing the scooter to a stop? As you recall the regen cutoff below 5 mph in the latest software didnt quite fix it.

Mine also makes these rather harsh noises close to standstill during regenerative braking (also a Kelly at work in my scoot). If I hit the brakes at a sufficient speed for the controller to actively cut back on regen current and hold the brake lever down to standstill the noises are far less harsh than when I start regen braking at lower speeds. I generally let go of the brakes just before coming to a full stop to stop the noises from getting real loud. I have a feeling that the block commutation during regeneration (and probably also the normal wear and tear of real life bumpy roads) has already shaken some layers of my core laminations loose, thus amplifiyng these electromagnetic vibrations. Probably only toning down maximum regen current will really get rid of the loudest noises?

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E-Sprit Fury (basis is the ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Mods: Battery temp. gauge and battery heating (off the grid and off the battery), Kelly KEB72801X, reverse activated, luggage rack with topcase, HC Cycle Analyst, Emsiso BMS2405, 35mm² battery cables - repaired again :-)

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

PJD wrote:

John,

Will the updates have a solution to that "brp-brp-bp-bp-bpp-p-p-pt" noise and vibration from the motor when bringing the scooter to a stop? As you recall the regen cutoff below 5 mph in the latest software didnt quite fix it. Other than that, all the bugs seem to be shaken out and it is running great...

Paul D.

Unfortunately, no. We haven't found a way to address it. Some motors are louder than others.

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

PJD
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Joined: 11/22/2006
Points: 1246
Re: Test Pilot vs. Production Scooters: What are the ...

It is an odd phenomenon, if braking is gentle and gradual after the regen low-speed shutoff, it doesn't occur. If one must continue to decelerate quickly after regen shutoff, it occurs. I don't think it occurs if regen had not been active within a few seconds of coming to a stop - almost like time is needed for controller capacitors to discharge after regen mode or something. One would think that Kelly Controllers would be more responsive about addressing the issue. It's purely an aesthetic issue, but aesthetics do count.

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