Relative speed / power of Zero S and Zero DS motorcycles

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reikiman
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In this comment it's suggested that the Zero S is really a "learning bike" which made me think of the race results with the Zero S in the TTXGP
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/12519-going-electric-guide-electric-motorcycles-zero-motorcycles#comment-66056

See http://www.electricracenews.com/2012/06/brammos-atlas-wins-ttxgp-at-pir-after.html and http://www.electricracenews.com/2012/05/in-surprise-upset-zero-motorcycles.html for race reports

In the North American TTXGP there's an experiment going on using Zero S's as a precursor to a "spec class". It's called eSuperStock, and is only open to electric motorcycles manufactured in volumes over 25 bikes. If you think about the range of available electric motorcycles, only the Zero S/DS qualify. er.. it just occurred to me, the Native GPR-S might also qualify. In any case eSuperStock is being done as a collaboration with Zero Motorcycles, and they have done light modifications to four Zero S's to comply with the TTXGP rules.

That means the bikes are still limited to 88 miles/hr top speed.

In the TTXGP we've always had a huge gap between the top bikes and bottom bikes. As a practical matter not many teams can afford to build a bike that can compete with MotoCzysz, or Lightning, or Brammo's Empulse RR.

With the eSuperStock guys in the race the performance gap has been even more obvious.

This last weekend they did one interesting thing ... a couple Zero bikes were gridded with Ninja 250's in a gas bike race. The Zero bikes stayed together the whole time (they're closely matched in performance) but the two of them, lap after lap, fell farther and farther behind the 250's. It wasn't a matter of inexperience, because all the riders in the Zero eSuperStock team were experienced racers.

Which says - the Zero S performance is slightly less than the 250's

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antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
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Re: Relative speed / power of Zero S and Zero DS motorcycles

one of the reasons I said it was a learner bike is because under Australian law, when you first get your motorbike licence you are only allowed to ride a motorbike up to 250cc or 45hp.

after a year, you have to retake your test and training before being allowed to ride any bike

theres good reason for this, a 600cc sports bike in first gear can flip you just by hard acceleration, or dropping the clutch a little too hard

I have seen only one bike that you or I could buy at that level of power - the Roehr

for a 250cc bike, it is very forgiving and the amount of special skill required is not that great (which for a commuter bike is great)

Now - having said that, a 250cc equivalent electric bike is *much* easier to ride in everyday traffic than an actual 250cc gas bike

That's mainly because when you whack the throttle open because you unexpectedly need to accelerate hard, the electric bike is already ready to do it.
On a petrol bike, you have to either downshift first, or ride in a lower gear than really necessary the whole time, just in case you need to accelerate.

on a 600c bike or bigger, this isn't actually a problem, but on a 250cc bike, it is

So under some circumstances a 250cc equivalent electric is as useful as a 600cc gas bike, but I would not go so far as to actually call them equal

my old 250cc suzuki across could do 0-60mph in ~6 seconds (45hp@14'500rpm, 1st gear change at 30mph)
That bike is about as powerful as you can get in your first year of havinga bike licence (legally)
some cars could out accelerate it if I split all the way to the front at a set of lights

My Vectrix does 0-60mph in 9 seconds (30hp at 35mph)
most cars can out accelerate it below 30mph

Just about all the 600cc bikes and larger will do the 0-60mph sprint in under 4 seconds with no gear change

The reason this is important is to be able to put enough distance between yourself and the car you are next to after splitting, you really have to out accelerate them by a wide margin
on my across, this was usually the case, but on the Vectrix I only really go to the front when there is a truck or some other slow vehicle in front

The bottom end is just as important as the top end.
The Vectrix, zero and other EV bikes all seem to be much the same in terms of acceleration on the bottom end

Scooters like the xm-5000li, the zev's and various other EV scooters all seem to fall short here of the more expensive bikes' less than stellar low end acceleration

Matt

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Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
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MEroller
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Re: Relative speed / power of Zero S and Zero DS motorcycles

antiscab wrote:

The bottom end is just as important as the top end.
The Vectrix, zero and other EV bikes all seem to be much the same in terms of acceleration on the bottom end

Which is why I put in the more fitting Kelly KEB72801X instead of the standard KBL72201 into my 5/8kW Thunder so that the lower end might be equal to the middle and upper end, thus making the bike's performance much more smooth and powerful from the start. So threading to the front in front of a red light is no longer embarrassing :-)

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