Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid conversion.

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
toolboxjesse
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 1 month ago
Joined: Monday, February 13, 2012 - 12:52
Points: 56
Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid conversion.

Does anybody know if it would be possible, and not too difficult, to adapt a small gas or diesel generator to power and charge the Vectrix system while driving? I get the monthly newsletter from Harbor Freight tools and they offer an 800 watt 63cc generator for around $100 on sale http://www.harborfreight.com/63cc-900-watts-max800-watts-rated-portable-generator-certified-for-california-69381.html. Although with my 2 cars and 3 motorcycles, including my VX-1 I have plenty of things to work on it think it might be interesting to be able to extend the range or charge the bike up with a built-in generator. The generator would mount in place of a top case (this one weighs 40lbs, maybe 8 lbs more for 1 gallon of fuel, which I believe wouldn't be too much if a strong bracket such as the VectrixPro one is used) and would be wired into the BMS (I assume). What are the obstacles to installing this type of system, aside from a software that would allow the bike to run and charge at the same time (not that that isn't a large obstacle in itself)? Does this 800 watt generator provide the bike with enough juice to keep the Vectrix battery topped off, provided that one starts with a full battery?

What are your thoughts?

Jesse in Atlanta

1charan
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago
Joined: Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:34
Points: 22
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

Hello Jesse,

Seems nice, but...
- My VX1 draws 8 amps at 230 Volts, which is way more watts than your generator can handle. So the standard charger needs to be adjusted to draw less current than during a standard charging cycle.
- How efficient is this generator? If it is too inefficient, your mileage will be worse than the mileage of your car!

- My personal problem with a hybrid is WHY?? If you burn gas to drive, why not do away with all the electric stuff? This saves a lot of weight and you have less complicated things that will go wrong. It only makes sense to build a hybrid if a hybrid is getting better mileage than an ICE.

Nevertheless, seems like a nice project with lots of challenges.

Good luck,

Charan

toolboxjesse
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 1 month ago
Joined: Monday, February 13, 2012 - 12:52
Points: 56
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

While I don't know the ins& outs of generator output, The advertised output of the generator is 5 hours at 50% capacity based on 1.1 gallons fuel capacity. If the bike could run for, say, 3-4 hours on 1 gallon of fuel, and you would theoretically be left with the range of the fully charged battery (say 1/2 to 1 hour), that sounds pretty good to me for one gallon of fuel (4-5 hours on 1 gallon of fuel). Plus, I could always refill the fuel tank for additional range with a low battery, so that might add at least 1 hour of riding & charging. Then I could fill up again before the end of the run, let the bike charge for a few hours while stationary, then start the whole process again.

A 4-stroke would be better, since you wouldn't need to mix oil into the gas, but a 4 stroke would also be heavier.

Jesse

Jesse in Atlanta

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

50% of 800W is 400W.
If you drive the Vectrix at walking speed you might be able to keep the battery capacity :-)
Sorry, but such a generator is not powerful enough to keep you running.
You would need one that gives around 4000W to keep you at 40mph and the charger is not that powerful.

LCJUTILA
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 5 days ago
Joined: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 07:23
Points: 113
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

This idea is not that far off the mark.

In Brazil they have golfcart-like E.V.s. They put a Honda generator in the trunk and run it on ethanol. It works quite well!

LCJUTILA

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

The idea is much more workable for four-wheeled vehicles than scooters because they can carry more weight more easily. Even then, only the most efficient (like Honda) generators would be worth trying. I proposed, a while back, what I think is the more effective hybrid design for scooters: adding electric assist and auto start/stop to a four stroke gas scooter, using a front hub motor with regen and small LiFePo4 pack.

LCJUTILA
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 5 days ago
Joined: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 07:23
Points: 113
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

Here's my thinking:

It takes my CuMoCo C130 roughly an hour to charge for each ten miles ridden. That is with the charger working as fast as it can. It draws 9-9.5 amps while charging at 120 volts.So if you could get a generator that would max out the charger the fastest you could go without running down the battery would be ten miles an hour average speed. The charger is the limiting factor, it seems.

Driving it at ten miles per hour sure beats ever having to push it though.

If the generator needed were too heavy for the top case mount, it could follow along on a trailer.

@ LeftieBiker-

That hybrid bike would be pretty slick and very expensive. Putting price aside though it made me wonder if there is an upper limit to reasonable gas mileage. Is three hundred miles per gallon that much better than two hundred? At some point the cost for fuel gets so negligible as to not matter and a small ICE Scooter gets pretty amazing gas mileage in stock trim.

I have solar power at my house and the electricity I use to charge my bike is excess that the power company refuses to pay me for. I have zero or a positive return to me on fuel cost as a result. Because of this my issues change. Time taken to recharge becomes the issue as well as range.

I also live in earthquake country and having a little generator around would come in handy if the Big One knocked out power. The generator would have more than one potential use.

I have considered using the bike batteries to power my house at night and then recharging them with the solar power during the day. This is not the most economical way to fry your Lithium batteries though. However,it would be great to have in a power outage.

LCJUTILA

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

@ LeftieBiker-

That hybrid bike would be pretty slick and very expensive. Putting price aside though it made me wonder if there is an upper limit to reasonable gas mileage. Is three hundred miles per gallon that much better than two hundred? At some point the cost for fuel gets so negligible as to not matter and a small ICE Scooter gets pretty amazing gas mileage in stock trim.

Not really expensive. By going with a 20 or 30AH battery pack instead of a more typical 60AH pack, you'd save roughly enough to build the rest of the scooter. Further savings could be achieved by not having the ICE recharge the pack, just strong regen from the front motor whenever the brakes are applied. This would make it a serial plug-in hybrid that, with a mostly normal (but clean, efficient 4-stroke) ICE scooter configuration, wouldn't be terribly expensive to build. The scooter could creep in EV mode in traffic using a 1.5 to 2KW hub motor, with zero emissions, then run as an ICE scooter on the highway and larger streets. This could do a hell of a lot to reduce urban smog.

Scooters don't get 200MPG even when it's claimed. They rarely get 100MPG. 70-80MPG is more typical, and my proposed serial hybrid could get 120+ on a short commute inside a large city. That would be a substantial difference, especially when taking into account the reduction in emissions.

The internet ate an earlier version of this reply.

LCJUTILA
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 5 days ago
Joined: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 07:23
Points: 113
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

@LeftieBiker-

I was using the high gas mileage to illustrate a point. As mileage increases, it becomes less important in relation to other issues, it would seem.

LCJUTILA

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: Thinking outside the box, or am I? Gas/Electric hybrid ...

True enough, but fuel economy is only half the issue. Urban air quality is actually a more pressing concern in many metropolitan areas. Any vehicle that doesn't have to run its ICE in traffic would be a real game changer as far as air quality is concerned.

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There are currently 0 users online.

Who's new

  • Juli76
  • xovacharging
  • stuuno
  • marce002
  • Heiwarsot

Support V is for Voltage