VX1 Li Ion 18650 conversion

Whats wrong? I checked and double checked , the part of Bd 2 cell 1 to 4 and Bd3 cell 1 and 2 is very strange.

Not strange to me. This is the normal behaviour of a damaged BMS, one cell reads higher than real, the next one reads lower, or viceversa. The result: the cells are killed due to overvoltage/overdischarge. In my opinion,
the original VECTRIX BMS system is a catastrophic disaster: Too Fragile, to many problems around it.

You may replace the faulty boards, by making sure you reactivate cell Dips in right order, to avoid damage, but you should wait for Vectrix BMS gen2, Which , I sincerely hope, It will be more reliable.

R, do you think the following comment submitted by Framuga on 5-5-2015 is maybe a solution?

http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/6747

is it worth to try?

Yes, Framuga is one of the masters of this fantastic forum, he showed me how he successfully recovers those damaged BMS. However, recovering one single board requires plenty work. If you are skilled at electronics, try.... but keep an eye on the second generation of vectrix BMS.

2e gen. BMS? I am listening. You make me very curious, who is going to build it? and when can we expect it?

It is build by Vectrix.
I hope it will be available soon, maybe 1-2 weeks.

Just get a decent BMS like Emus or Zeva.

I can't argue with you point, my personal vectrix has an emus installed!
However, not everybody is ready to drive a "prototype" vectrix.
"If" that BMS is good enough, these vectrix would be ready for general public.

I agree that a BMS is not necessary for Li-Ion conversion of VX1. A 36s setup works with correct charging firmware installed. Low voltage cutout is already in Vectrix Firmware. You do need to keep your 36 blocks balanced and I use shunt balancers fitted to each block of cells. BMS setups are too complicated. They can be unreliable due to their complexity.

Can you put a wiring diagram , or explain how to acquire that shunt stuff?

Ok today, I took the plunge. I charged the batteries to 140 volts, that is 36 X 3.91. Then I rode my bike without BMS. Everything went well, except a yellow toolsign(because there is no BMS and temp sensors). Make me no difference for now.
Display is like Ts Low000, high000.
Rode 10 miles, first slow and later a bit faster(like 44) No problems, good regen, smooth acceleration. Est range 84 miles.

`shunt balancers?` what are they? explain pls? picture?

RC planes and cars have used shunt balancers to protect their LiPo batteries. Usually the balancer is part of the charger but alternatively it can be built into the battery pack.
Here is a simple one on RC blog.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424686

Information on how it works here.
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Shunt-Regulator.htm

Can you post , an schematics of yours , a photo or more information on the subject?

I recently purchased an non-working VX1 (2008 vintage) with the old NiMH battery pack. I pulled the pack (200 lbs) and replaced with 12 Turnigy 10AH packs 6S 25V (charged) and just 35 lbs from Hobby King. I run them as 2 set of 6 packs - series connected then parallel in two chains. They just snap together like legos and are easy to service. I use them for my electric lawnmowers as well. I've put 800 miles on the bike since with no problems. I simply use a timer on the charger such that it turns off after a set time. My charger is the old type that puts out 10 Amps. 5 Amps per chain seems reasonable to me. Just a little experience and you get to know how long a charge should take. I manage the packs myself just checking for reasonable balance and it's been trouble free. So long as the original charger puts out power you can adapt it to meet your needs. Next I'd like to get into the CANBUS monitoring and would love to adapt the display to read the way I want. I'd attempted to run the old Vectrix Diag software but it didn't run on my newer OS. I've picked up an old XP computer and will try again. I see some are using Arduino's. I've programmed beaglebone's and recently got the Raspberry PI3. Has anyone tried them? Any advice on CANBUS or getting started on the VFD software would be appreciated. A photo of my first temporary test pack is attached but I've since changed to the newer Graphene cells that have connectors you can daisy-chain and it's a much cleaner path. 15C discharge rating with two in parallel would supposedly provide 300Amp capability worst case.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__89614__Turnigy_Graphene_Professional_10000mAh_6S_15C_LiPo_Pack_w_5_5mm_Bullet_Connect...

I pulled the pack (200 lbs) and replaced with 12 Turnigy 10AH packs 6S 25V (charged) and just 35 lbs from Hobby King.

quite impressive! How are these graphene lipos doing after some months?

I don't wanna scare you , but just this cables showed in the image can't handle 300 Amps at 140 V.

I've rewired these to a more permanent solution since the original photo was taken. There are actually two sets of 10 gauge cables in parallel. The original green batteries are rated 10C (100 Amp) and the new Graphene version I'm putting in now is rated 15C (150 Amp). Theoretically I could pull a peak current of 250 Amps according to Turnigy but I don't push it. I've put 1200 miles on the bike with this configuration and climbed some steep hills. Amp ratings for cables can be misleading as they are rated for constant loading and distances usually greater than the 2 feet I'm connecting. The graphene versions are ridiculously easy to connect as the new connectors are made for series connections and just plug in. Twelve of these bricks is getting me to work now but eventually I'll put 18 of these in.

what happens if only one cell damage? The low cell and the high cell never more equalizate?

Ok today, I took the plunge. I charged the batteries to 140 volts, that is 36 X 3.91. Then I rode my bike without BMS. Everything went well, except a yellow toolsign(because there is no BMS and temp sensors). Make me no difference for now.
Display is like Ts Low000, high000.
Rode 10 miles, first slow and later a bit faster(like 44) No problems, good regen, smooth acceleration. Est range 84 miles.

After a while carefully driven the converted Vectrix(from Li to LiMn 18650 cells) whithout BMS, I ordered a brand new BMS from Poland. The BMS came without any manual or wiring diagram. ??
Took me several emails to obtain some information and then they finally sent me instructions for a Nihm to Lithium conversion. Wrong.
I already had a original Li 30Ah.
So, after some heavy thinking I managed to install the BMS and finished the bike succesfully . It took 2 days to charge and equalize the pack. Drove my first 104 km. and draw 45,8 Ah from the pack.(moderate driving between 60 and 80 km/h.)
There was some 40Ah left. So I am very pleased. :)

Another Vectrix back on the road!!

I thank Prensel, and other members of this forum
for the great help.

Meridiaan
The Netherlands

Hello all, here another guy from the Netherland who want to convert his (me) Vx1 Li+ from 2012 to 18650 cells.
This is my third Vx1 and bought it with the bad GP cells. I am still driving it but low range and long balancing. I think Prensel and Meridiaan did a great job. All tips are welkom.. I am not sure yet what to do with the bms. I like to keep the original instrumentation. And i don,t like to pay a lot extra for a bms. Are there good experiences with the original bms build into a box from vectrixparts? I also want to make RC type of cables to the battery pack, so i can check and balance them with my RC charger when i want.
Thanks for your reply,
Great forum!

VX18650

Netherlands

Hello everybody,
I think it is very interesting how you guys did the 18650 Conversions with your Vectrix VX-1.
I already started planning my own conversion. But this is possibly not happening before Autumn. May LiFePo4 40Ah Pack has to do it's job until then.

Anyway It's amazing what you do. Is it possible to go with other Lithium Cells e.g. 22650 or 32650? of course there weight is higher but they also have a higher capacity. So you may need less Cells to get the same Power out of them.

Thanks Simon