The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

135 replies [Last post]

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1751
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

You're right, I still keep his contact, I'll try to speak with him.

DoItYourself
Offline
Joined: 03/14/2012
Points: 21
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

I'm still alive :) and i'm making a new release to solve the bugs.

- I've added the function requested some time ago to use the chirp horn at low speed and normal horn at high speed (20Km/h actually is the lower limit)
- I've added the automatc hazzard light when in reverse riding

i'm working on the "hi-beam" bug
and some other little tricks.. ;)

Bikemad
Bikemad's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/21/2013
Points: 211
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

R wrote:

Just tested the new programs. Impressive work! Congratulations!
I've just found one bug in the ICM code. If hi beam activated,+ press left brake lever + press turn signal, it activates hazard lights. May it be possible to only activate hazard lights with flash light of hi beam+ press left brake lever `+ press turn signal?

I regard it as being a beneficial safety feature rather than a bug.
If you're on main beam and indicating to turn, then you are obviously not indicating to warn oncoming traffic of your intentions, and if you are slowing down so quickly that you also need to use the rear brake in addition to full regen, then perhaps you could be considered as a potential hazard to any vehicle that was driving closely behind you.
I think it would be much safer for you if they were alerted to your sudden braking (by your flashing hazard lights in addition to your brake light) especially if it helps to prevent them from crashing into the back of you.

Alan

R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1751
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

wow... great news, Thank you!
I'm starting to owe dinners to plenty firmware masters...
if you ever come to Barcelona,let me know.

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

DoItYourself, good to see you back! If you allow, i can add new releases to the 'TheLairdTeam' map. As a member of this team i have the rights to upload.

May i add another question/request?

Could you make it possible to activate 'cruise control' (CC) without activating high beam bulb?

For example:
Short touch and release high beam button activates CC (<0,5 sec)
Longer touch (>0,5 sec) activates high beam bulb and no CC

What do others think?

(Maybe better start a new 'DIY ICM' topic to discuss things?)

Sugarstorm
Offline
Joined: 02/22/2012
Points: 49
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

The Laird wrote:

I hope that the 70Mph top speed is giving you the bike you want. There is no more speed available, the motor is capable of 74Mph at it's design maximum RPM. It has been tested at 74MPH. The bike's electronics doesn't like it, the decoder doesn't like it, and it is not practical to issue a higher speed file than 70Mph.

The Laird

With all due respect for your work for the Vectrix community, there is something wrong in your affirmation above.

I've been riding a Vectrix for 3 1/2 years now. 3 years Nimh and the past 6 months Lithium.
I've had a top speed of 74mph, with a Nimh pack, since the summer of 2013. So, 74mph is real old news for me!
But...
Those guys from Portugal (Fuel Free Motos), have a firmware for a Premium Limited edition that reaches 94 mph (150 kmh)!!!
So, it is possible to have a much higher top speed than the 74mph.
Of course for those speeds you need a real strong pack since you are always drawing well above 120A from the pack, for quite some time.
And range is an issue. Something like 20 to 25 miles :)

And they also have a real cruise control. You set the current you want to draw from the bike and, when speed drops in an uphill section, you can give a little twist of the wrist to keep your speed. When you let it go, it will go back to the previous current set before.

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Maximum speed is a software RPM limit. Max speed can be set at any (higher) value. Above 115km/hour we experienced encoder issues. So, better safe then sorry ;-)

X Vectrix
Offline
Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 297
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

The maximum safe RPM is 5540. The actual readout on your speedometer may vary a little depending on your tire diameter and inflation. 5540 is the maximum safe RPM. If you hack the SW to go higher than that, the encoder faults are the least of your worries.

edit...actual readout on your GPS that is, not on speedo

Sugarstorm
Offline
Joined: 02/22/2012
Points: 49
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

hybride wrote:

Maximum speed is a software RPM limit. Max speed can be set at any (higher) value. Above 115km/hour we experienced encoder issues. So, better safe then sorry ;-)

Hey, I don't doubt what you are saying.
But please don't doubt what I'm saying to. In Portugal (and there is one in Australia also) there are several Vectrix that NEVER have experienced encoder problems and all of them have a top speed of 78 mph.
The problem must be the firmware version you are using. Fuel Free Motos is way ahead of all of you. WAY AHEAD!
Just go to www.Vectrix.pt and check everything they have done so far. Ask them what you want. I'm sure they can help clear all doubts you must have.
FFM is using smartphones while the rest of you are still using morse code!

And what is that talk of RPM limits for the motor? Where do you have that info from?
And encoder problems are the least of our problems? Why? Is the bike unsafe at higher speeds?
Well, never mind. Facts are facts. And in Portugal, some of our Vectrix bikes are just faster than in the rest of the world.

Bikemad
Bikemad's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/21/2013
Points: 211
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

X Vectrix wrote:

The actual readout on your speedometer may vary a little depending on your tire diameter and inflation.

The rear tyre diameter will definitely affect the accuracy of the speedometer indicated speed in relation to the true road speed, but the speedometer reading should always be consistent with the motor's rpm regardless of the tyre diameter.

If you put a smaller diameter low profile tyre on the rear wheel it will still hit the rev limiter at the same indicated maximum speed on the speedometer, but the bike will actually be travelling slower due to the reduced gearing effect of the smaller diameter tyre.

Sugarstorm wrote:

Those guys from Portugal (Fuel Free Motos), have a firmware for a Premium Limited edition that reaches 94 mph (150 kmh)!!!

I am very happy with the ~71 mph top speed that The Laird's firmware provides as it is only 4.6% faster than the factory top speed and I can't believe that any manufacturer would run their motors with less than a 10% safety factor margin on the maximum safe rpm.

Although with a maximum speed of ~71 mph I will no longer be able to chase after idiot Mercedes drivers who nearly knock me off when I'm doing 70 mph in the middle of the outside lane of a dual carriageway while overtaking slower traffic on the inside lane, and they shoot past at over 100 mph and miss me (and my son) by no more than three inches!:

But at least it should save money on fines and increased insurance premiums.

Sugarstorm wrote:

And they also have a real cruise control. You set the current you want to draw from the bike and, when speed drops in an uphill section, you can give a little twist of the wrist to keep your speed. When you let it go, it will go back to the previous current set before.

I have an electric pushbike that does pretty much the same thing, but a real cruise control should raise and lower the power to maintain a constant set speed without any manual intervention.

So if you are travelling at 50 mph and you engage the cruise control it should maintain a constant ~50 mph unless you do one of the following:

  • Increase or decrease the set speed using the cruise control "INC+" or "DEC-" buttons
  • Apply the brakes
  • Accelerate
  • Disengage the cruise control
  • Run out of fuel
  • Crash

Alan

heathyoung
Offline
Joined: 07/27/2011
Points: 90
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

I think the problem is due to the motor not holding together at higher RPM - possibly throwing a magnet?

Has anyone gotten the current off the line higher? Or is this a limit of the phase current at low RPM? Would love to throw the next size (450A) IGBT module into the bike and scale the current sensors for an extra 50% (but would need to figure out the wiring + extra bus capacitance since they are very different pinouts).

How is everyone modifying these files - decompiling/disassembly?

Excellent work, everyone who is producing these files!

R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1751
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

FFM is using smartphones while the rest of you are still using morse code!

FFM He is offering premium, exclusive firmware to those who are willing to pay large amounts of money. He will never help anybody for free, he is here just for business.

On the other side, there are fantastic people around here freely offering what you call "morse-code". I love that linux style, I can't help it...

X Vectrix
Offline
Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 297
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Alan
Yes, true road speed...see my edit at end of post. Also the accuracy of the speedos will vary from speedo to speedo. I just replaced mine and it reads 2mph faster.

Vectrix did build in some safety margin with the max motor speed. But the safety margin was for the original max speed of 62 mph (5050 RPM). Under marketing pressure, Vectrix then bumped up the speed to 68mph (5540RPM) which is well into the safety margin. I find it very irresponsible that anyone will claim they know best and put lives at risk by increasing the motor RPM. It is about throwing magnets, not encoder faults.

Completely agree on cruise control comments. I'd hate to be stuck behind someone with that "cruise control".

Domi422
Domi422's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2009
Points: 51
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

I would like to say a great thank you to all the team.
I've been using The Laird's software for 3 years now and my Vectrix is still giving me an average 45 km range.
I was about to ask you if you had made improvements and am glad you shared your tremendous work with us.
I have dowloaded the new files and will install them, save for the ICM as my commute doesn't allow me to "cruise".

Clocking 25 000 km, my Vectrix is still a beloved one, and I keep smiling, mainly due to your help.

Merci beaucoup The Laird's.

Dominique

__________________

Le site des utilisateurs français (The French user's website) http://www.vectrix.fr/

Jonathanm
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Points: 141
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Bikemad wrote:
R wrote:

Just tested the new programs. Impressive work! Congratulations!
I've just found one bug in the ICM code. If hi beam activated,+ press left brake lever + press turn signal, it activates hazard lights. May it be possible to only activate hazard lights with flash light of hi beam+ press left brake lever `+ press turn signal?

I regard it as being a beneficial safety feature rather than a bug.
If you're on main beam and indicating to turn, then you are obviously not indicating to warn oncoming traffic of your intentions, and if you are slowing down so quickly that you also need to use the rear brake in addition to full regen, then perhaps you could be considered as a potential hazard to any vehicle that was driving closely behind you.
I think it would be much safer for you if they were alerted to your sudden braking (by your flashing hazard lights in addition to your brake light) especially if it helps to prevent them from crashing into the back of you.

Alan

Just a thought...
The only reason I would want a simpler activation of hazard warnings is that I like to use them in almost stationary traffic when either riding on the wrong side of the road or between lanes...The high beam lit will piss off people that I am passing..

Jonathan

zeuz
Offline
Joined: 06/28/2014
Points: 92
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Jonathanm wrote:

Just a thought...
The only reason I would want a simpler activation of hazard warnings is that I like to use them in almost stationary traffic when either riding on the wrong side of the road or between lanes...The high beam lit will piss off people that I am passing..

Jonathan

x2

Anyway, thank you all for your hard work!

P.S.:
Would it be possible to activate the Hazard lights by pushing 2 times the cancel turn signal ?

Sugarstorm
Offline
Joined: 02/22/2012
Points: 49
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

X Vectrix wrote:

Vectrix did build in some safety margin with the max motor speed. But the safety margin was for the original max speed of 62 mph (5050 RPM). Under marketing pressure, Vectrix then bumped up the speed to 68mph (5540RPM) which is well into the safety margin. I find it very irresponsible that anyone will claim they know best and put lives at risk by increasing the motor RPM. It is about throwing magnets, not encoder faults.

Yes. I have to agree with you. The guys from Fuel Free are true killers.
But they don't post this kind of warnings:

"The Laird's Team accepts no responsibility for anything relating to these files and their use. You have downloaded the files based on your decision. You will use them based also on your decisions and judgment. WE accept no responsibility for what YOU do with these files how you use or abuse them or anything that results from your use of these files."

Fuel Free Motos will vouch for their products. Maybe because they know what they are doing. And test things before sending them out.

Sugarstorm
Offline
Joined: 02/22/2012
Points: 49
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

R wrote:

FFM He is offering premium, exclusive firmware to those who are willing to pay large amounts of money. He will never help anybody for free, he is here just for business.

You would be amazed at the fortune I had to pay to be a lucky premium costumer. I had to sell my house, wife and kid to be able to have that premium firmware!

Is it so shocking that someone asks for money for a service that is provided?
If The Laird (and once again thank you for what you and your team have done) hadn't fixed the bugs for his own use, and them decided to share them with everyone for free, where would many users have gone to solve their problems? Probably to FFM. But since they have an inferior product available for free, they are not willing to pay.

Once again, some people are happy with a fake Chinese smartphone for 100$.
Some people will only settle for the best US (Apple) or Korean (Samsung) top of the line smartphones for 700$. Even if they are also made in China!

Bikemad
Bikemad's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/21/2013
Points: 211
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

zeuz wrote:

Would it be possible to activate the Hazard lights by pushing 2 times the cancel turn signal ?

I think that would be most unlikely, as I suspect that the cancelling action of the indicator switch is just operating a mechanical release mechanism instead of opening and closing a separate electrical switch, but I haven't taken one apart to find out for sure.

Alan

Kocho
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2014
Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Something worth considering: the tendency of the ESD chargers to lock-up. This can literally be deadly on a Li-converted bike.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14037-vx1-li-ion-18650-conversion?page=1#comment-75752

Whether the above was caused by this or not I have no idea, just showing the results, should it happen.

Again, before any flares in attitudes sparkle, this has *absolutely nothing* to do with the authors of this particular release (other than the fact that they have not identified and addressed the cause in their version, and therefore their software too, like the original Vectrix software, is likely also subject to the lock-up tendency of ESD chargers).

For those who do not know what a lock-up is, this is the condition where the ESD charger does not stop charging even after the battery is full. It has not been reported on the Runke type chargers, only on the ESDs. The ESD charger "locks-up" in charging mode instead of shut itself down as it normally does. The lock-up causes an "endless" charge, which overcharges the battery and in the case of Li batteries that is *very* bad. I have personally experienced it several times while I had my ESD charger (with the Laird's version of the software installed (that he personally prepared and provided to me, while we were still on good terms). I've seen this on two separate ESD chargers, on two separate NiMh bikes. Luckily, I was around and caught it, so it did not immediately damage my battery. After that I have been using a timer on the NiMh bikes ever since, to prevent this from happening.

For a Li bike the batteries are more sensitive to overcharging - you need some sort of redundant voltage cutoff protection, other than what the ESD charger itself provides. That, or never leave the bike alone for longer than it would take to fill the battery - otherwise you risk overcharging the pack and at the minimum damaging some cells, at worst - a very serious fire.

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

There are several charging cutt-off reasons build in the ESD software. Voltage Cut-off is only one. Are there examples known that this happened and in what charging stage? My advise: when start charging, always check if the CP voltage is shown correct on the dash before leaving it. I had it once that the dash showed: CP 000, while the charge started. Why this happened is still incomprehensible to me, but i think a initialization fault. When the charging cycle start's correctly, i can't image what should cause a lock-up.

R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1751
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

You would be amazed at the fortune I had to pay to be a lucky premium costumer. I had to sell my house, wife and kid to be able to have that premium firmware!

Oh dear Lord!
Sugarstorm, I'm amazed you can pay his premium services without selling house, wife and kid. Congratulations!
With no shame, and with great honor, I'll try to keep my vectrix running with the laird's firm, as long as possible...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc&list=RDRBHZFYpQ6nc
I'm getting curious... how much did you pay for your smartphone...?

Aircon
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
Points: 515
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Kocho wrote:

Something worth considering: the tendency of the ESD chargers to lock-up. This can literally be deadly on a Li-converted bike.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14037-vx1-li-ion-18650-conversion?page=1#comment-75752

Whether the above was caused by this or not I have no idea, just showing the results, should it happen.

I always charge on a timer.....ALWAYS.

I know how long it takes to charge the bike from whatever voltage I finish at.

Before I started with a timer the charger never locked up on me, mind you, but knowing it's a possibility made the cost of a cut off timer a cheap insurance policy.

Kocho
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2014
Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

hybride,

The situation I observed, if memory serves me right, is where the charger reports that it is at say 140V in the CP cycle, while the actual battery voltage continues to climb to and reaches the CP target voltage of 144 or what ever it is. The voltage display looks fine initially and voltage climbs up with time seemingly normal. Until it reaches some value where the display voltage freezes but the actual continues to climb. If the charge cycle has plenty of time before time cutoff, the battery gets overcharged. It may exit due to time limit later, but it has reached or exceeded the voltage limit before that and should have quit before the timeout comes. I forget if that was in CP or CC stage - I shared it in some of my old posts on this forum somewhere and I know others have shared about this too.

Basically, even if the time limit would kick-in eventually, in the "freeze" situation the voltage limit should have kicked-in well before that time limit, as the target voltage had been reached. But the voltage cutoff point is being ignored by the charger for some unknown reason when this exception condition occurs. It might happen once in 10-20 charges, kind of random...

EDIT: luckily, I never let it reach the temperature cutoff point (which it might, given that the "freeze" will overcharge the battery and cause excessive heat). That might have stopped the charge too, though again, this is not "normal" operation but a safety mechanism that should not kick-in on a healthy battery in a cool environment.

hybride wrote:

There are several charging cutt-off reasons build in the ESD software. Voltage Cut-off is only one. Are there examples known that this happened and in what charging stage? My advise: when start charging, always check if the CP voltage is shown correct on the dash before leaving it. I had it once that the dash showed: CP 000, while the charge started. Why this happened is still incomprehensible to me, but i think a initialization fault. When the charging cycle start's correctly, i can't image what should cause a lock-up.

BLUESTREAK
Offline
Joined: 11/15/2009
Points: 280
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

"R" you are funny.

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Smart solution using a timer. I use a programmable wall plug that switches off if the power drops under about 60 Watt's.

Bikemad
Bikemad's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/21/2013
Points: 211
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

hybride wrote:

Smart solution using a timer. I use a programmable wall plug that switches off if the power drops under about 60 Watt's.

When the charger freezes, the power will remain well over 60 Watts so your wall plug will not turn off and protect the battery against being overcharged.

When I reviewed the video of my locked up charger (which at that time was not using The Laird's software) it was obvious that the voltage and temperature readout had both completely frozen ~12 minutes into the charging process, but the battery gauge and charge current continued as shown in the graph below:

I have since discovered that I have a single faulty temperature sensor on this bike which reads a lot lower than the others, and I think the only reason the temperature warning light started flashing when it did was because there was more than 15°C difference between the highest and the lowest sensor reading, not because the battery had actually overheated.
If I hadn't manually aborted the charging process, the voltage and temperature would have simply kept on climbing and the battery would have probably overheated just like it had done previously:

But even when it overheated before, it did not automatically cut out and stop charging, I had to manually abort the charge to prevent further overheating, and this was when the charger had not locked up!

If you were charging a lithium pack without any temperature sensors the charger would not realise the battery's maximum voltage had been reached and presumably could continue to supply current at a high level until the pack was dangerously overcharged.

Your programmable wall switch still needs to have a maximum charge time set to prevent the possibility of overcharging if left charging unsupervised.

At least it should switch off the power when the charging doesn't freeze and completes a full charge, and will therefore eliminate the constant draw from the mains supply and prevent further unnecessary heat build up within the charger itself.

Alan

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

The main reason for the wall plug power shut-down is to prevent the 50 Watts of standby current of the ESD charger. It is also possible to program it on time, but i don't use that. The device i use is a 'Plugwise Circle'.

I am not sure about this, but i expect the maximum voltage output of the ESD charger is about 160V. The DC/DC converter on the MC is rated 160V max. Again, i am not sure about this. Anyone?

On one scooter i use 19 Leaf cells. If they are fully loaded, 38 * 4.2Volt = 159.6V. In theory and in case of maximum output of 160V, the charge current should drop and the wall plug should switch off. But i don't count on that...

The Voltage cutt-off is a software check. You are right that if the ESD charger locks up, the voltage will keep climbing.

For my Calb cell scooter with MiniBMS i am testing a custom ESD charger file that only use CP and CC stage and only holds on voltage. I also skipped the top-off mode code, so the ESD charger always waits for the voltage, every charge. CC mode is used as equalizing stage.

VectrixLeaf
Offline
Joined: 01/31/2015
Points: 71
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Hi,
I use to charge it:

http://efergy.com/es/products/ego (spanish)
http://efergy.com/uk/products/ego (english)

It´s great, you can stop charge when you want...ej: 30 minute after CC star or 2 hour after charge star or when charge is 443 during 5 minuts...it is fantastic.

PJD
Offline
Joined: 11/22/2006
Points: 1410
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

I'm just a lurker here I don't have a Vectrix and will never have a Vectrix. I have a scooter with far less of this "too many cooks" complexity (even the horn relies on software???) and consequently less problems and better servicebility, so I don't have a dog in this fight. Therefore, I feel free to say that the Laird's 8/1/2015 and 8/3/2015 posts are the most stupendously arrogant, egotistical and offensive comment I've ever read in this or any other internet fora. His personal attacks on Kocho were bad enough, but to openly demand gratitude from people is something I've never seen in my life outside of characters from a fictional farce.

The proper response to Kocho's technical views - poorly informed or not, is either to patiently respond to them or just ignore them.

I avoid speculating on the origin of his arrogance except to say (apropos to it being Labor-Day here in the USA) that I've seen it before from other poeple of the privileged socioeconomic classes I've met. I presume that Scottish Lairds, which Sandy has openly stated he is, (note to those not under "Her Majesty" a "Laird" is a type of landed aristocrat) belong in this class.

Perhaps the Vectrix owners feel uncomfortable raising this issue out of fear of losing access to the software improvements, but thankfully I am free to do so.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

style="display:block"
data-ad-client="ca-pub-2401070691062219"
data-ad-slot="2079401426"
data-ad-format="auto">

How to Live Well Without Owning a Car Save Money, Breathe Easier, and Get More Mileage Out of Life



Who's new

  • motorbearing
  • spoul1699
  • Loker
  • supertwike
  • Martin_EV4

Customize This