ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle Line. M-13-S

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dzehrbach
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ZEV Electric launched its M-S series electric vehicle with the introduction of the M-13-S to the press and onto the company web site. See http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/30.html for more complete details.
ZEV M-13(2).jpg

The first model of the bike is being down with the 45 kw motor rated at only 13 kw continuous, and reserving the enormous cargo carrying space of the "gas tank". ZEV M tank storage .jpg
ZEV tank storage2.jpg

Despite having an expensive full body fairing, and a selection of windshields from sport to tall touring, the motorcycle is priced below competing non fairing body bikes, and has more range at highway speeds. The MSRP is $12,490. This first introduction is in response to commuter riders asking for a full body and the ability to carry a load of gear within the body like the large ZEV Electric motor scooters.

The controller is the proven 36 Mosfet controller from the big ZEV LRC motor scooter. The motor design is also the same hub motor style but wound differently to adjust for the 18 inch wheel size.ZEV M-S right side.jpg
ZEV M-S left side.jpg

The bike runs huge dual radial front calipers with dual pistons on dual 260 mm disks and a 220 mm rear disk with double piston. ZEV M-13 front brake.jpg

ZEV M-13 meter panel.jpg

See the web site link for more specifications.

DH Zehrbach

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LeftieBiker
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

From the link:

On hard acceleration, the front end does not tend to wheelie nor is fancy traction control needed to keep your front end planted as you punch out of a corner.

I suspect that with that hubmotor, people who have ridden a Zero or a high-end Brammo will think that the brakes are stuck on when they try for "hard acceleration." And for anyone looking for a lower-priced "motorcycle": I have a late model ZEV with about 1800 miles total on it, sitting in my garage with multiple failed systems. Caveat Emptor.

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Mr. Cerkowski,

Why not be fully truthful with the readers?

1)You have a 2011 small power motor scooter model with lead battery. Not remotely anything as to a performance bike.

2) You never have owned any of the high performance motor scooters and never tried one of the motorcycles.

3) You are also in the files and on record as refusing to do any maintenance at all.

4)You have never contacted ZEV about any issues asking for either repair or help to repair.

If you have failed parts on your ZEV, or "failed systems" as you claim, then why have you repeatedly advertised it for sale claiming it was fine and never once contacting ZEV about repairs?

Get your story straight.

DHZ

LeftieBiker
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

1)You have a 2011 small power motor scooter model with lead battery. Not remotely anything as to a performance bike.

I never claimed otherwise. I have, however, ridden several Zeros. If your hubmotor bike is fast, why are there no test results posted to support it? No
0-60MPH times, or even 0-30 times, for example.

2) You never have owned any of the high performance motor scooters and never tried one of the motorcycles.

The "motorcycle" I do own was claimed by you to be the 'fastest lead-acid
bike in the world' (paraphrase), remember...? Do you think that people really
swallow your hyperbole, and then forget it as needed?

3) You are also in the files and on record as refusing to do any maintenance at all.

Utter bullshit. The topic here devoted to the rolling abortion you sold me records the maintenance done, including two steering head adjustments and tightening of numerous electrical connections. Are you claiming it stopped working correctly because I didn't check the tire pressure often enough? What exactly needs to be maintained in order to stop the controller and/or motor from failing? How about the instrument lights that never worked? (Zehrbach sent me an entire instrument cluster to replace a couple of bulbs, because he can't get individual parts for "his" own largely-Chinese-made bikes.)

4)You have never contacted ZEV about any issues asking for either repair or help to repair.

That's just a lie, and we both know that. The ZEV topic also records my back and forth with you. You have no shame, apparently.

If you have failed parts on your ZEV, or "failed systems" as you claim, then why have you repeatedly advertised it for sale claiming it was fine and never once contacting ZEV about repairs?

Apparently you think you can lie at will and no one will be the wiser. My ads for the scooter all list the issues with it. Do you really want me to post one of the numerous emails from you here in response to my requests for help, just to make it painfully clear that you are a liar? You do realize that the people who regularly read this forum are familiar with both of us, right...? Apparently not.

LeftieBiker
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Here is a screen shot of one of quite a few (look at the list in the pane above the text) emails that Darus Zehrbach sent me in response to questions from me and/or postings on this site. I'll never understand people who think a lie is better than an honest attempt at rebuttal...

reikiman
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Just going by specs ...

Continuous power output 13 kw
Peak power motor rating 45 kw

The 2016 Zero's say "max power 40 kW" without saying what the continuous power output is. However, the 2016 Zero S has a top speed of 95 miles/hr, while the ZEV tops at 80 miles/hr. The Zero S has the 400 amp controller, the Zero SR has the 650 amp controller and a 105ish miles/hr top speed, and the ZEV has a 650 amp controller and 80 miles/hr top speed. The total range is comparable, especially considering the ZEV has a slightly smaller pack.

There's some guys in the Australian electric motorcycle racing league (eFXRC?) using the Enertrac hub motor, and doing great things with that bike. Ergo, just because a motorcycle has a hub motor doesn't automatically mean bad performance.

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Kocho
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

There is the issue with swing weight of the rear wheel with that heavy hub motor inside it, but to be honest other than in really chopped-up pavement it is not a big deal. On my Vectrix VX-1 the rear suspension works well enough for committing and is fine in general (other than the too short travel, which I hope is not a problem on this larger bike and wheels from ZEV). Still, the Zeros that I test-rode extensively last year (with the 2014 suspension, which has been upgraded in 2015), were miles ahead in terms of suspension feel and function vs. the Vectrix...

For the ZEV, it would be nice to post information about the suspension (brand, adjustments, size/travel), tire brand bundled with the bikes, and the brakes brand and whether they come with ABS function.

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

You are correct, power is power, no matter how it gets to the ground.

For this first model launch, we are not trying to compete with the top speed of the ZERO S. The S speed will be higher. However, it is not sustainable. They advertise the same 80 mph continuous. Our goal in the first model launch was to offer a bike with the on bike storage that the commuter group was asking for, better weather protection than a naked bike, and a lower price point despite the extra body cost. The range just worked out to be in the ZERO range. The 84 volt bike with 15 kw continuous will have the higher top speed, and the price will still be not more than $14,000

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Kocho

When comparing the rear wheel weights with the same time on hub vs chain drive, you have to consider
-the weight of the chain and sprocket on the wheel.
-the mass of the center section of the non hub motor and the spokes out to the OD of the hub motor

On the scales, it varies by bike brand but seems to be in the 12-13 lb difference. But it makes no difference that you can feel. Only when a bike is healed over until the knee slider pucks touch do you feel the difference as then there is no real suspension. Loads are put into the side of the bike, not up into the suspension. Since the bike was not designed as an all out race bike, but as a street sport commuter bike, it is of no consequence.

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Yes michael cherkowski,

Your post shows exactly that we responded to you on a bike that was quite a few years old, and out of warranty by a number of years. Your post shows that I suggested ways for you to trace your ghost issue, but you never came back to us to ask for parts, nor to ask for service.

Forums are not the place for customers to try to discuss with manufacturers about any issues they believe they have. That is why we have a service department. That is why as the head of the company I had to deal with you personally since you would not deal with us in a rational manner that would let us assist you and the service reps could not deal with you either.

After I responded to you, I never heard from you again. If you trace your problem, we will be able to send out the parts to fix it. If you cannot trace your problem, then either engage with me to walk through the diagnostics, or take the bike to someone who can go through them with me. But making attacks does not help the situation. You have my personal email. Get on it and get the bike fixed if in fact there is a problem.

LeftieBiker
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

I requested a new front wheel assembly (the bearings were going bad and the wheel may be crooked from shipping damage) at the end of the warranty period and never got a response. The most likely culprit with the drive failure is a bad controller. Since the motor is 8.5kw I have no desire to replace the terrible 5kw controller with the same unit. Only one of the three "speed" settings was usable in riding. I really hope that your warranty support has improved since the days when you lost one of my two keys by mailing it in a plain envelope with no tracking, and assured me that the increasing wobble and shudder in the bike's front end was either an improperly adjusted steering head (despite two adjustments) or just my imagination. You did at least replace the chargers that kept failing for no apparent reason (I never rode often or hard), although was one them was clearly cobbled together, with no display.

Anyway, between having to turn the whole motor at the same speed as the rear wheel in which it is located, leading to poor off-stop and low speed acceleration, and having to deal with back-EMF at higher speeds, hub motor bikes seem better suited for leisurely cruising at 45MPH than for fast riding.

itchypalm36
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

While I rather enjoy seeing new EV manufactures (and others) stepping up to the plate with electric motorcycles, this model appears to be littered with problems.

1. Chinese suspension, Tires, and Brakes. These are the parts of a motorcycle you never skimp on. In 8 years of riding and racing I have crashed ONCE. It was on a similar conversion bike using a Chinese chassis with cheap Chinese tires and suspension.

2. Although you measure a torque output of 206 ft/lb I seriously doubt it has a 0-60 close to a ZERO motorcycle. I've ridden multiple hub-motor motorcycles. The best so far in my opinion was the one with the SMALLEST wheel, a conversion that had a tiny 10" rear wheel. Anything with this large of wheel diameter is going to struggle 0-30 mph simply because of the starting torque and lack of gearing.

3. You say that un-sprung hub-motor weight doesn't matter for every day driving? As an experienced automotive engineer and motorcycle builder I can say that is 100% false. Manufactures work very diligently to reduce every ounce of wheel, swing-arm, chain, and tire weight. The reason is simple-

Newton's First Law of Motion: I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. This we recognize as essentially Galileo's concept of inertia, and this is often termed simply the "Law of Inertia".

Example: pretend two motorcycles are driving down a bumpy washboard road. One with a 15 lbs more weight due to a hub-motor, one without (normal chain / belt drive) Every time you hit a bump the rear wheel bounces upward quickly, but the job of the suspension is to keep the wheels planted on the road for maximum traction. Therefore it takes an EXPONENTIAL amount more force, and time for the rear wheel to return to the road surface, and when it does return to the road surface it slams into the pavement with EXPONENTIAL more force. This causes a multitude of problems. The motorcycle with lighter un-sprung weight (chain / belt bike) can respond quicker. The swing-arm and rear wheel can move faster both up and down. This means it has increased traction and control. Especially important in turns.

-lack of consistent tire traction due to bouncing
-reverberation through the bike's frame because of moving suspension
-possible complete loss of tracition because suspension cannot push tire back quickly enough
-bottoming out of tire into bike frame
-exponential faster wear on suspension component's or possible catastrophic failure.

Example 2: Imagine swinging a giant 12 pound sledge hammer compared to swinging a small 5lb hammer. Which one could you swing back-and-fourth faster in a one minute period? What if the hammer was only 3 lbs, I bet you could swing it VERY fast. Imagine that hammer as your motorcycle swing-arm, rear wheel, and tire. The lighter they are, the faster they respond to bumps and retain traction, and reverberate into the frame.
---

Also it clearly states on the Zero website that anything with a 13Kw pack has a sustained 85mph top speed, and the SR or DSR has a 95MPH sustained top speed. I can also tell you that from personal experience on my 2013 Zero DS the "sustained" top speed is rather conservative. I have spent well over 30 seconds at the max speed of 98 on mine no problem. Any more time then that is'int really needed anyway.

I do enjoy seeing the new ZEV product's here but please take some advice and improve the critical components, brakes, suspension, tires. People's live s depend upon them when riding.

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Itchypalm
1) You incorrectly assume the bike has Chinese parts. Try Japanese. Do you think suspension parts and brakes on Kawasaki and Suzuki are junk? You never asked, never saw, but assume blindly. That rather sets the stage for all of your other comments.
2) You very incorrectly assume that the bike is a “conversion”. We have the jigs and tooling. No conversion.
3) You incorrectly assume that it is impossible to wind a motor to take into account the diameter of the wheel. The same motor hub can be wound to produce peak torque or efficiencies at a wide range of rpm. You also have no clue of what size the motor is physically nor if it even remotely compares with anything that you may refer to. Do you think that the hub motors on our Chevy Suburban with the 32 inch mud tires lacks torque?
4) You seem to assume that this is some newbie company offering its first product. After over 12 years of production under the ZEV name, bikes since 2006, a wall full of trophy as a privateer racing BMW and Kawasaki as a road racer since 1970, this is not our first bike, and we have 1300 units on the road with not one comment of the ilk that you proclaim. These are not racing motorcycles. You can argue all that you like about whether hub motors work or are good or not, but the fact remains that for the speeds, vehicle weights, etc. that we run, they work well. We have been making the high speed motor scooters with the 12 and 15 kw motors on them that cruise at 80 mph for some time. Zero issues about motor weight even with the 13 inch wheel. I am a mechanical and aerospace engineer with 45 years of racing. Designing bikes, working for the Japanese and the German companies, Bonneville records, designing airplanes, etc. I know all of the arguments. I also know all of the results based on tests. You only guess and assume.

5) The M 13 S is not intended to be a ZERO S competitor. The 13 is only supposed to hold 80 mph for an hour (not 30 seconds) and for more range than the smaller ZERO. We really do not care one bit what a ZERO S or DS does or does not do. Their market is not ours. The ZEV is fully faired for weather protection and has on bike storage with more range and less price than a comparable ZERO. We stress range and efficiency. On our LRC motor scooter, we now run 140 miles at 55 mph on a 10 kwh battery pack on a 13 inch motor scooter wheel. The top dog ZERO SR with a 15.9 kwh battery pack only reaches 120 miles at that speed. So we are running 16.6% more range on a 37% smaller battery pack. The LRC, and the new motorcycle have enough storage space to carry the same same size battery pack as the ZERO if we want to. But that would mean a 220 mile range for the ZEV vs the 120 miles of the ZERO.

Four or five unfounded assumptions and an untested in this application engineering premise do not make a basis for your conclusion. We are the oldest bike company in this business having started in 2006 and incorporated in 2008. 17 models now, more models on the way.

itchypalm36
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

So if I'm incorrect please inform me, what brand tires and suspension is on the bike? Sorry if I made assumptions, but your website doesn't list any brand, size, or measurements of the suspension. Nor do the pictures show any labels. I also assumed this because your website lists no tire brand, and I don't reconigize the tread pattern.

And yes, I do know a lot about AC / DC motors and hub-motors. As someone that works at Tesla Motors and builds race bikes I have personally been inside dozens of different motors types. Including entertrac hub motors. My close friend has a 120v 100ah pack powering an entertrac motor, his bike is probably 3x slower then my Zero, I understand that it can be wound differently for higher torque, but usually at the cost of RPM and high rpm efficiency.

There is a reason we have not seen one hub motor bike even compete In the TTZero Isle of Man. Nor seen a hub-motor motorcycle in the pikes peak, they lack in low end torque. I'm not saying they don't have benefits, they do! They make another huge space in the frame for batteries which is awesome! And their cruising efficiency is off the charts. But saying it has "206 ft/lbs" is a bit deceiving for the average customer. If I am wrong then please show a dyno graph, video, or any evidence of this much torque. Because with that much torque and too speed, you should be able to do 0-60 in under 3 seconds.

MEroller
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Interesting: dividing the air gap diameter by the approximate outer tire diameter of 24.2 inches (could be done with the radii also, but the result is the same) leaves around 136Nm or 100.6 lb ft of maximum torque to the road. My 13 inch hubmotor delivers up to 160Nm to the road. Hubmotors per se do not have low start-up torque, it all depends on having the best compromise of windings and an appropriately powerful controller to push the necessary startup current...

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QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

reikiman
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Ted Dillard posted some interesting research on ZEV Electric and this bike. Basically, he calls BS on them ...

See this for the details: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/zev-does-it-again-launches-motorcycle-bs/

A couple things stand out in the posting. First is that Darus Zehrbach has a background of running shady companies and convictions in federal court: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Z_Electric_Vehicle

Second is that this is almost identical to a Chinese bike that shows up in Alibaba: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2015-new-electric-sports-motorcycle-HONDAGT_60348908211.html?pid=121219&cn=16426&cv=custom...

__________________

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itchypalm36
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Yep, there is the EXACT motorcycle posted for sale on Alibaba... built where?... "Jiangsu, China" doesn't look like the suspension or brakes were changed judging from the images.

Link- http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2015-new-electric-sports-motorcycle-HONDAGT_60348908211/showimage.html

Dont call BS on me when you're the one lying. These ARE cheap Chinese junk chassis with cheap Chinese tires.

As an experienced automotive engineer and motorcycle builder, the more I thought about this the more it bothered me. Adding 15~25 lbs of (un-sprung) hub-motor weight to a cheap non-reinforced swing arm with a cheap Chinese shock assembly coupled with extremely poor quality tires is literally a recipe for disaster. The first person to ride one down a bumpy road, or hit a little wash-board will wipe-out faster then riding on ice.

Another way to imagine un-sprung weight is the old hammer trick. If you were asked to swing a hammer as fast as possible for a minute straight, would you want a 3 pound carpenter hammer? or a 15 pound sledge hammer? Obviously the lighter one will prevail. The job of the spring and shock is to keep the tire on the ground, much like your arm in the illustration above. With a massive hub-motor added, the wheel will now erratically bounce up and down, losing and gaining traction. possibly to the point where the shock (of poor quality mind you) would catastrophically fail. It will also make the rear braking (and regen in this case) will lock up the rear wheel when the suspension radically jumps upward.

If tuned properly with quality components this COULD work. But you are building a dangerous machine with poor quality safety parts.

Mark my words, this bike is a death trap and will injure or kill someone.

dzehrbach
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Reikiman

I flagged your comment as propagating fraudulent information spread by Dillard and offensive.

Dillard makes a fraudulent claim by stating that the founder of the ZEV company has a history of convictions. False. No founder of ZEV has any conviction.

There is a series of men by the name of Darus Zehrbach in existence. They are not one and the same as Dillard assumes or just intentionally fraudulently asserts as he was told before of this flaw in his misconduct.

Kocho
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Without taking any sides in this exchange, because facts and titles can be misrepresented and misunderstood, the following is worth a look: http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/94a0946p.txt

Perhaps there is a difference b/w "founder" and "president" of ZEV and perhaps the term was misused. A man by the same name, location, and with similar education has listed himself as the "president" of ZEV on a very public web site, while multiple news outlets refer to what appears to be the same person as the "founder" of ZEV... I personally would not get hung-up on a title, if those information sources are all referring to the same person ;-) Are they? I don't know... EDIT, it's worth mentioning there are indeed several people by that name, some in the same family, and I do not know which one of them is posting here... A straight answer to the question: is ZEV related to the person in Dillard's blog and how so, would clear things-up at least on who's who. Law suits are a complicated matter and a verdict does not always correspond to the actual crime or intent, so I'd urge the forum to do more research before jumping to conclusions one way or another ...

Also, about the Alibaba listings. There is nothing wrong with using Chinese components and whole bikes as a platform. And not publishing exact parts spec is the right of the US assembler/manufacturer. However, disclosing that info could help eliminate uncertainty and help potential buyers decide on how to spend their money (and what potential upgrade pats are there, should they decide to do it later). It's not like we won't find out what the components are - soon enough someone will test ride or buy one of these and share, so in my opinion it would help to share now and stand behind the choice of components.

dzehrbach wrote:

Reikiman

I flagged your comment as propagating fraudulent information spread by Dillard and offensive.

Dillard makes a fraudulent claim by stating that the founder of the ZEV company has a history of convictions. False. No founder of ZEV has any conviction.

There is a series of men by the name of Darus Zehrbach in existence. They are not one and the same as Dillard assumes or just intentionally fraudulently asserts as he was told before of this flaw in his misconduct.

LeftieBiker
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

When you try to use a free forum like this to post advertizing, you often succeed - free advertising! However, unlike with paid ads, the forum participants get to respond, and to call BS. I think that Darus is finding that the downside may well greatly exceed the upside, in this case. As for "There is a series of men by the name of Darus Zehrbach in existence. They are not one and the same..." Well, barring a rational, credible explanation, that pretty much sinks the man's credibility, IMO. It's always been pretty clear that ZEV is a one-man-run operation, and for that one man to try to distance himself from...himself, that's certainly novel...

reikiman
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Darus, As the owner of the forum and therefore the one who reviewed your request to have my posting removed ... I had to evaluate this as neutrally as I could, rather than just dismiss it out of hand. Thing is that the comment in question simply referred to a posting elsewhere, and paraphrased a couple things that Ted Dillard said. Your beef is with Mr. Dillard, not with this posting.

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teddillard
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

dzehrbach wrote:

Dillard makes a fraudulent claim by stating that the founder of the ZEV company has a history of convictions. False. No founder of ZEV has any conviction.

There is a series of men by the name of Darus Zehrbach in existence. They are not one and the same as Dillard assumes or just intentionally fraudulently asserts as he was told before of this flaw in his misconduct.

Well, hell. I still have a login over here, go figure. I'll freely admit I had to use "I forgot my password" to get in, though. It's been a while since 2009. ;)

I make no claims, fraudulent or otherwise, I simply listed links that are public record, and let you pretty much speak for yourself, which you do so eloquently. No worries, you're just continuing the pattern of personal attacks on people who actually value factual information. Feel free to continue those attacks, but I'm afraid it's not going to help you sell any product, nor, as we've seen, will it lend you, or your product any credibility.

You've been trashed on three forums now, by far more knowledgable people than I, and this isn't the first time - one would figure you'd learn, eventually... or not. It's really a shame, because I do think you have a good product, if only you'd sell it for what it is.

teddillard
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Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

I'm actually wondering if ZEV even has any of these bikes in stock, or if this is nothing more than a prospecting mission. Several simple questions have been ignored, that could be answered easily if they had the bike in their possession.

Acceleration- what are the 0-60 times? Simple way to give that information, strap a GoPro on, go from full stop to 60mph, and post the video.

Photos of the actual rear wheel and swingarm assembly - without palm trees in the background. How about with your shop in the background, or that airport you invite people to test drive at? This would put to rest any doubts about the swingarm design, since there are a few different swingarms shown in various photos.

Weight of rear wheel/tire/motor assembly. Again, how hard is it to pull this off the shelf and slap it on a scale? That is, if you actually have one in hand. Make it easy, take a photo of the scale with the wheel, and post it for us.

I'd love, and I think all of us would too, to see a video of this bike on the track performing like you claim it can. Slap a camera on the frame facing rearward, take some footage from the pits of it passing, maybe take it for a nice speed run on a public road down there in West Virginia for us to see how the rear wheel handles choppy roads. Game over, questions answered.

It's obvious that some of the thing is sourced from the Far East, China or otherwise. How about some photos of your assembly process? Receiving the frame/chassis, adding your motor, adding whatever else you add, like that? It's pretty common for a manufacturer to show their products being manufactured - I know, I was a commercial photographer for many years.

Finally, this "passive oil cooled" motor. I've had questions about this since day 1, back when you first told me about it. What does that really mean? Does the oil circulate somehow, or is it just lubricated with oil? How does the oil conduct the heat, and from where? How does it dissipate the heat? How does it work when the bike isn't moving? You talk about how the hub is cooled by the air when it's rolling, but what about that heat when you're stopped? Most active cooling systems I know of will still be pumping at a stop.

Oh, I know I said "finally", but one more question... how was the power rating tested? I ask this because anybody with any knowledge of motors in the least would find this kind of power rating at this weight and size to be pretty amazing, and, considering Seimens', Emrax and other's work lately with radial flux outrunner aircraft motors, your power ratings should put it along with them in the "Worlds lightest motors" category. Yet we haven't read about it anywhere.

How about it? Some straight talk and photos?

teddillard
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Points: 17
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Last post regarding this. For those who'd like to "meet" the Zehrbachs, Darus Jr, (the father) and Darus III (the son, and the name on the emails I got), here's a video that's been out there for a bit. I still don't know which one we're talking to here - on ElMoto this username was apparently the father, Darus Jr.

(I'm just gonna link it, don't know the ropes around here well enough to embed it...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jWfTPMuxEM

(Funny, I just searched the name on Spokeo and got one result, in Morgantown WV. I searched "Ted Dillard" and got about 28 results. I hope none of those guys have any convictions... lol)

dzehrbach
Offline
Joined: 07/23/2009
Points: 63
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

"Funny" also Ted you narrowed your search to produce only results you want or you lied about what your search revealed. How about

http://grave-records.mooseroots.com/d/f/Darus-Zehrbach

http://www.queencitylodge131.org/content/deceased_members

"apparently" mean you are just picking conclusions out of your rear?

Does the above record indicate who was the father? If a Jr, then obviously not the father. Duh, am I going to fast.

It would "apparently" be indicated by the above that the father died the same year the business was started.

The photo you sent of you with the Kotex on your head is clearly appropriate.

teddillard
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2009
Points: 17
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Good job, once again, answering reasonable questions.

I actually thought the video I posted was very interesting, and pretty flattering to you and the company. We get to see the shop, hear about how and why you started the company, and honestly I think that motor you showed looks really cool. I'm thinking, here's a reasonable guy, working with his son, with a bit of a gift of overstatement (even in the video), but having some fun building some neat stuff. We even get to meet your son, and for those of us trying to figure out who is who, it clears a lot of that up as well.

And then you post crap like that ^^^.

(It's aluminum foil, not a Kotex, putz.)

My little blog, The Electric Chronicles, gets a handful of readers and new bikes and scooters gets little or no interest, so it's of little consequence. I also have a job writing for InsideEVs, and that's different. We get over a million hits a month. If I could get some actual responses from you, with credible information, this would be a story and a hell of a bunch of free publicity for ZEV, but a) I can't get credible facts, and b) I don't like promoting people who are assholes and treat me like shit, or flat-out lie. Funny, two other friends who write for big sites feel the same way about ZEV - interesting product, but not gonna touch it in a story. Again, good job. Maybe some site that has no idea what EVs are all about will pick up the story and mislead a bunch of noobs that you can then sell scooterbikes to, with a bunch of false expectations.

My two favorite comments about this entire shitstorm: "You can get a Zero ZF9.8 for $11k, with a bigger battery, more power, and much better build quality for $1500 less than the ZEV. Nobody in their right mind would buy this bike based on the price and spec alone." , and "This is why industry managers should avoid getting too into forum discussions."

I'm going to say one more thing, regarding "...duh am i going to fast". First, it's "too" fast. Second, anyone with any degree of patience can figure out who you are and what your background is, especially if they have access to the PACER site and the W VA Atty General's office and a host of other public records online - in spite of the use of the various iterations of your name. So before you start insulting my intelligence, you might consider that it's not a great idea to insult and piss people off if you're trying to attract customers. mmmmkay?

Can someone tell me how to shut off notifications from this thread? I really really don't want to get them.

itchypalm36
Offline
Joined: 11/17/2008
Points: 18
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

You claim you build your vehicles at an airport. You could do everyone a favor by buying a $120 GoPro camera, mounting it up on the bike and making some 0-60 mph and top speed runs.

This would-

1. Prove that your specs are correct, because any motorcycle with (206 ft-lbs of torque, anywhere in the RPM band) should be able to rip off at least a sub 3 second 0-60 (since Zero SR has 106 Ft/lbs and does a 3.3 second 0-60)

2. Prove that you actually own of these in your possession. The photos on the website differ and have palm trees in the background, doesn't really look like plants native to West Virginia.

3. Prove that your bike has a distinct range advantage over Zero's bike by using the time-lapse feature. Do a quick drag race, take both to a local track for an afternoon, heck you have an AIRPORT!!!

4. Use the slow-motion feature to prove the Hub-Motor and suspension is equal in traction on bumpy and washboard roads. Perhaps use a jig to ensure the camera shows the tire contact to the road.

You cant just come on to these forums, claiming that you have this 'superior' Chinese built motorcycle without proof or hard data to back it up. Your tech claim's are razor thin, the numbers are hardly believable, and the fact you cannot answer EXTREMELY simple questions like "what brand tire & suspension are on the bike" question any credibility of this company and product.

Do us (your potential customers) and yourself a HUGE favor and film proof of the motorcycle ACTUALLY out performing other bikes, Film it's performance, etc... Stop just SAYING, hub motors are 'better' actually PROVE it by spending $120 on a GoPro, and an afternoon of time. If you cannot do that, then your company is a joke.

Here's a link to a $120 GoPro. http://www.amazon.com/GoPro-CHDHA-301-HERO/dp/B00NIYNUXO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1446954980&sr=8-3&keywords=go-pro+camera

teddillard
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2009
Points: 17
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Kocho wrote:

Without taking any sides in this exchange, because facts and titles can be misrepresented and misunderstood, the following is worth a look: http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/94a0946p.txt

... A straight answer to the question: is ZEV related to the person in Dillard's blog and how so, would clear things-up at least on who's who. ...so I'd urge the forum to do more research...

Re/that case - CONSOLIDATED ASSET MANAGEMENT CORPORATION: http://apps.sos.wv.gov/business/corporations/organization.aspx?org=123924

Complete description of the case: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-3rd-circuit/1115692.html

Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) : https://www.pacer.gov/ (requires registration and login... search "Zehrbach, Darus" under "Party Name" using the PACER Case Locator).

But, y'know. I just pull all this fraudulent stuff outta my ass, according to my buddy Darus. Me and my kotex. This took the cake, as far as my all-time favorite claims by him over on ElMoto a few years ago: "I am not the, nor an owner of ZEV, just the engineer that is most visible to the USA. The Z in ZEV is not connected with my name at all."

http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpDetails.aspx?lx8nvq=NbdXngviTLPtD3XjLPBy%252fw%253d%253d&nt7=0

- looks like your Business License needs renewing, there, DZ.

dzehrbach
Offline
Joined: 07/23/2009
Points: 63
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

Kotex Kid,
Still trying to construct or sell that lie?
1) Officers in corporations do not have to own any stock in the corporation. Sometimes they do, often they do not and just work for a wage.
2) Being an officer in a corporation does not make an officer an owner
3) Being an officer in a corporation does not make them a founder either.

Nor is there any link to the criminal related documents quoted to Darus Zehrbach the II, or III or even Jr,who are the names related to ZEV

(The Z in ZEV was for Zheng, one of the founders by the way)

So far, all you have shown is that:
1) Searching under your name, you say there are 28 people by that name, so people having the same name is not unusual.
2) You admit at least 2 versions of my name, and know of a grave notice of one other at least. Three minimum.
3) Someone, whom you cannot tie to the ZEV company as a founder, or current officer, , 16 to 22 years ago, long before ZEV was created, was convicted of a crime, that is unrelated to the bike company by trade or industry or by company name. In fact that company name was not a match and was LPE.
4) You cannot find a match for the name on the criminal documents that matches mine, nor my sons
5) That conviction was 16-22 years ago, long before ZEV was created.
6) My son was only 4 years old at the time of the conviction which in a sane man's mind would rule him out.
7) My other son, is now only 2 so that should run him out.
8) The conviction was in another industry and unrelated in any way to the motor scooter/cycle industry nor not the same company name
9) The only name exactly which matches the criminal actions is not a Jr, nor a II, or III --and in fact matches the name of the man who is dead as of 2005, almost 11 years ago.
10)Even the dead mans name does not match any name related to the ZEV corporation,
11)You state that the criminal action sentence was for 54 months. 4.5 years. You show conviction records dated 2004. So if you still fraudulently and maliciously keep claiming that the founder of ZEV and the person convicted was me, then you are stuck with the fact that it would be impossible to have ZEV incorporated by me in 2008 as I would have still been in prison.

So at best, you can show that it is possible, that a man now dead about 11 years possibly was involved in the formation of of ZEV as that is the only name match. (Possibly only, as you cannot find any link between him and ZEV)

Ted, you keep desparately grasping and searching and making conclusions that do not match the stuff you quote. Then you wonder why no one respects you as a writer and why I hold you in such disdain and did not want to work with you several years ago. I recognized you then for what you are. Yep, you are desperately pulling it all out of your ass in a very clear display of nothing but pure malicious prickishness. You are just making a fool of yourself.

I do appreciate the many email from people on this site and the other who wrote. The problem Ted is that you have behaved badly with a lot of other people over the past, they just kept quiet. You have been a mouthy prick to a lot of people. I find I am not the only one who holds you in disdain.

LeftieBiker
Offline
Joined: 07/09/2011
Points: 852
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

From the link to the Nevada corporation license document above:

 
Z ELECTRIC VEHICLE CORPORATION

New Search
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Calculate List Fees
 Business Entity Information
Status: 
 Default
File Date: 
 6/16/2008
Type: 
 Domestic Corporation
Entity Number: 
 E0391292008-7
Qualifying State: 
 NV
List of Officers Due: 
 6/30/2015
Managed By: 
 
Expiration Date: 
 
NV Business ID: 
 NV20081175882
Business License Exp: 
 6/30/2015

 Additional Information
Central Index Key: 
 

 Registered Agent Information
Name: 
 INCORP SERVICES, INC.
Address 1: 
 2360 CORPORATE CIRCLE STE 400
Address 2: 
 
City: 
 HENDERSON
State: 
 NV
Zip Code: 
 89074-7739
Phone: 
 
Fax: 
 
Mailing Address 1: 
 
Mailing Address 2: 
 
Mailing City: 
 
Mailing State: 
 NV
Mailing Zip Code: 
 
 
 
Agent Type: 
 Commercial Registered Agent - Corporation
Jurisdiction: 
 NEVADA
Status: 
 Active

View all business entities under this registered agent

 Financial Information
No Par Share Count: 
 50,000.00
Capital Amount: 
 $ 0
No stock records found for this company

   Officers
 Include Inactive Officers 

 Director - DARUS ZEHRBACH
Address 1: 
 2360 CORPORATE CIRCLE - SUITE 400
Address 2: 
 
City: 
 HENDERSON
State: 
 NV
Zip Code: 
 89074-7739
Country: 
 
Status: 
 Active
Email: 
 

 President - DARUS ZEHRBACH
Address 1: 
 2360 CORPORATE CIRCLE - SUITE 400
Address 2: 
 
City: 
 HENDERSON
State: 
 NV
Zip Code: 
 89074-7739
Country: 
 
Status: 
 Active
Email: 
 

 Secretary - DARUS ZEHRBACH
Address 1: 
 2360 CORPORATE CIRCLE - SUITE 400
Address 2: 
 
City: 
 HENDERSON
State: 
 NV
Zip Code: 
 89074-7739
Country: 
 
Status: 
 Active
Email: 
 

 Treasurer - DARUS ZEHRBACH
Address 1: 
 2360 CORPORATE CIRCLE - SUITE 400
Address 2: 
 
City: 
 HENDERSON
State: 
 NV
Zip Code: 
 89074-7739
Country: 
 
Status: 
 Active
Email: 
 

   Actions\Amendments
Click here to view 8 actions\amendments associated with this company

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have cut out the irrelevant parts, but somehow I think that would have caused at least one - maybe up to three! - complaints. It's kind of surprising (although that surprise is rapidly diminishing) that Darus, after getting caught claiming to be just an "engineer" for ZEV, would respond as he has, but at least we are finding out that a guy named "Zheng" is a "founder" of ZEV, for whom the company was actually named. Stay tuned for the next Thrilling Installment! ;-)

teddillard
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2009
Points: 17
Re: ZEV Electric Launched a Full Fairing Electric Motorcycle ...

The funniest part, to me, personally, is I don't really feel it's even that important, except in the context of ZEV's ridiculous claims about their products. I would have been happy to let the whole thing rest, and actually did, except for including a link which, in turn cited Zehrbach's convictions. The focus of my posts, other than to answer his comments about my "fraudulent misconduct" was to get to the truth of this bike's specs here, on EMF, and on my own blog.

It's Zehrbach himself who's made his convictions the focus of this trainwreck of a thread. Once again and finally, good job.

Much as I love playing "whack-a-mole" (as a friend of mine described Zehrbach's posts here, and everywhere else), I think my work here is done, with the following:

As far as me "making a fool" of myself, from the PACER Court search, out of 29 cases going back to 1982 from Bankruptcy, Criminal, Civil and Appellate court cases with Zehrbach, Darus H, and Zehrbach, Darus H Jr listed as "Party" :

The bankruptcy fraud case:
U.S. District Court
Northern District of West Virginia (Clarksburg)
CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:92-cr-00218-JFM-1

Defendant (1)
Darus Zehrbach
represented by Darus Zehrbach
06809-067
32 West Jefferson Street
Westover, WV 26505

The mail fraud case:
U.S. District Court
Northern District of West Virginia (Clarksburg)
CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:00-cr-00033-IMK-JSK-1

Defendant (1)
Darus Zehrbach
represented by Darus Zehrbach
06809-067
32 West Jefferson Street
Westover, WV 26505

Complete docket for bankruptcy fraud case: https://evmc2.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/zehrbachbankruptcyfraud.pdf
Complete docket for mail fraud case (kit motors): https://evmc2.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/zehrbachmailfraud.pdf
Link to Google Maps for 32 W Jefferson St, Westover: http://tinyurl.com/oemn4u4

...and, a search with the Dept of Defense in Sept 2006 by Darus Zehrbach for "any records with my name" under the Freedom of Information Act portal, among many other things. It's all in the public record.

You oughta read what the aviation community has to say about Darus Zehrbach and Zehrbach LPE, if you want a laugh. There's even a guy who has a brother that ordered an engine, and still hasn't got his money back. Then there's "Zehrbach Engineering". Oil and gas exploration? That's rich.

I don't mind being called a mouthy prick, especially by a pathological liar. I prefer "ornery old bastard", but whatever. Call me a fool, however, and you get what you deserve.

WHACK

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