Conversion finished!

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Johnny J
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MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

That is quite a battleship! Any more infos about it?

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My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Re: Conversion finished!

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/yamaha-majesty-250-conversion-94311.html :-)

Yes it's extremely comfortable to ride, like sitting in a sofa. ;-)

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

So how will you go about making the bike street legal? Here in Germany that would be quite an expensive nightmare with the TüV, and you even welded a critical part of the frame, i.e. the rear swing arm hinges! As much as I like your approach and build, as much I hope that in Sweden the technicalities aren't as complex and expenisve as they are here in Tyskland...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

No, it's propably easier here.

Since this is a -97 year model it is not EU-approved with COC-certification and those are easier than later models, an inspection costs like 125 Euros and if I'm lucky that will be it.
The EU approved ones are more expensive and more complicated to get approved, the cost is approximately 650 Euros. And you need to change front and rear brakes to bigger ones, supply detailed schematics, kill switches, certificates etc. etc.

I have an appointment next monday, see how it goes...

Went out for a longer ride today, went up to 130km/h, didn't dare going faster... :-)

Johnny J
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Re: Conversion finished!

Bad news, seems like they changed the rules last year so now it's the more complicated way that's the only option.
Will take some more weeks to get it approved...

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

Oh boy, this could get real messy now. I remember the look of those welds on your new swing arm hinges...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Re: Conversion finished!

First and most difficult step finished!
No problem with the welds and they approved all the other stuff aswell.
This first approval costed around 300 Euros.

Next step will cost around 120 Euros, will book an appointment as soon as possible.

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

Congratulations on successful completion of Step 1! You must have had a good-natured approver, I think I would have given you a harder time :-) What will the next step comprise? Electrical, EMC-type testing?

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

No, all the electrics (motor, controller, batteries, BMS, fuses, contactor, charger and wiring) with safety measures were covered in this first step together with axle distances, fork rake, balance and ergonomics. EMC-testing is not required for a (private) single vehicle conversion.

The next step is actually more simple and they only check lights, brakes etc.

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

Johnny J wrote:

The next step is actually more simple and they only check lights, brakes etc.

Ah, ok, so the normal roadworthyness stuff. That should be a piece of cake with proper vehicle preparation :-.)

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

Yes! All approved and ready!

Actually the second approval is more or less a repetition of the first one, but by a different agency and with fewer points checked, after that one they do the normal "roadworthy" check, so all together there are 3 steps.

Today I rode around 40km and I have to say it was a really comfortable and nice ride.

Still have the problem that the controller cuts the power if I apply full throttle too rapidly, need to figure this out.
Need to check the voltage limits or if there is a problem with hall sensor angle settings, otherwise I don't know right now.
The E-rider Thunder I had before had this problem as well, but only once in a while..

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

Congrats! Are you using a Sevcon controller in your build? They are known for such strange behavior in combiantion with Chinese hub motors.

The simplest reason I could think of is that battery voltage sags so much at full acceleration that the controller shuts down...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

You write that Sevcon are known for these problems with chinese hub motors, do you have a source for this or have you read if someone has found a solution?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Conversion finished!

If the problem is voltage sag, then why not try dropping the max current allowed through the controller quite a bit? If that solves it, you can then up the current again in increments until you hit the sag, and leave it set just below that point.

When the ZEV was low on juice it behaved just that way, cutting the current completely when the throttle was opened a lot. I've never encountered that with a lithium pack on my bicycles, but then all of my bicycle motors draw no more than maybe 600 watts, max. I can *see* the voltage sag start on the rare occasions when the packs get low, though, through the primitive voltage indicator lights. I assume that you have some sort of instrumentation that shows voltage; can't you look at what's happening with that when the controller cuts out? If not, a voltmeter of some sort might be in order.

Johnny J
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Re: Conversion finished!

Yes, next I will check the voltage settings in the controller, there are hundreds of parameters in the Sevcon software.
But I really doubt this is the problem, leaning towards Hall sensor settings/malfunction.

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

Let's see: Phil Carlson of Canberra comes to mind with his sevcon-powered PDT erider Lightning Bolt, who reported on these odd situations when trying to accelerate while turning into another road, especially when the road was a little steeper. I have heard from the first Sevcon-powered erider Pumas that they suffered from this random cutout phenomenon, which appeard to be unsolvable, so erider changed to other vector controllers and thus sent out an email that you surely also got that they have quite a number Sevcon controllers for sale for little money, even with a pic of a heap of Sevcon controllers.

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

Ok, thanks.
Unsolvable doesn't sound good, surely there must be one or more settings affecting this issue.

I can live with it, but is takes away a some of the fun.
I'll try to locate which present settings are different from the Thunder ones I have a copy of since they at least work better.

Johnny J
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Re: Conversion finished!

Shit, charger broke yesterday, TCCharger said they would repair it but I have to pay 2 freight costs, will order a new one instead, the old one was for 32 cells anyway and have 30.

Had a conversation with QuanShun regarding the "cut out" problem, they said I propably have to adjust the "Sine wave angle".
Believe it must be in "Gains" section in the Sevcon software.
They couldn't give me any more support since they didn't have the right parameters. I have bought the motor from E-rider and they said that by the time I bought it (2012) Mountain got the cases from QuanShun but made their own stator. Still selling them as QuanShun motors...

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

I just had to rework the erider stator on my second motor, as it was so eccentric that a little bearing play already led to increasingly massive rotor magent rubbing on the stator. My full report is on the German-language Elektroller-Forum, but with a LOT of photos! And you can see the photos WITHOUT having register there, unlike the DIY electric forum :-(
http://www.elektroroller-forum.de/E-Roller-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3785
The stator was some 0.3mm excentric, which I was able to take off on the lathe of a friend, by temporarily turning the stator into a rotor. And the brake-disk-side drive shaft diameter was another 0.3mm too small, so I had to bring it to the proper 15mm diameter with 4 rows of punch marks. A test ride comparing max acceleration data (battery current/voltage & speed over time) after the rework with original state will follow once my Swiss-chinese ride is back from a proper reworking of the GoldenMotor conversion that was done mechanically correctly. Until then my Thunder with the third motor will be my daily ride, too much risk in changing the motor out :-)

Did your TC die with a pop, smell, etc., or completely unspectacularly? And had you used that charger in a previous project already, i.e. was it already used before?

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

Yes, charged about 3 times before without any problems, 4:th time it just died after a few seconds.
No lights on it at all, took it apart, checked the main fuse on the motherboard, OK.
No fried electronics whatsoever.
Knowledge not enough to search further..

MEroller
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Re: Conversion finished!

So it was a new charger, never used in another project? Something like dead on arrival, apart from a handful of charges?

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Johnny J
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Joined: 07/08/2008
Points: 374
Re: Conversion finished!

Yes, but it's a couple of years since I bought it from Mountain.
Tccharger said that they would repair it without cost, but I don't have the time, a couple of weeks of extra riding in the summer is worth buying a new one for me. Especially since it wasn't the right voltage anyway.

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