Another Resurrection

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MOSFETmeltdown
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I've documented my efforts at putting the scoot back on the road here:
http://tinyurl.com/vectrixfixed

youtube video of me riding it here:
http://tinyurl.com/Vectrix

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Vicens
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Joined: 07/30/2016
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Re: Another Resurrection

MOSFETmeltdown wrote:

I've documented my efforts at putting the scoot back on the road here:
http://tinyurl.com/vectrixfixed

youtube video of me riding it here:
http://tinyurl.com/Vectrix

I hope you get your cheap vectrix. The controller motor is expensive.

I recommend that you remove the dugas firmware immediately. It has two problems.

The motor controller is blocked from time to time. The fan is blocked. The motor controller can be damaged by temperature excess

The charger will malfunction with the message "no out" after the first charge. Using the ni-mh battery. I do not know if it appears using a lithium battery.

I recommend the original firmware. Seem to work well.

I recommend installing the vectrixparts bms.

Has to wait for the cold to go. And enjoy your new bike.

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Another Resurrection

Hi Vincente,
Thank you for commenting.
I paid around 170 euros for a main board from a compatriot of yours in España (Marc Navarri)
I've charged a few times already with no problems and I've completely removed the cooling fans. Also my leaf cells are the 2nd generation 'lizard' chemistry and very heat tolerant - to say nothing of the zero temperatures around here lately ☺️.
I'll see how I get on.
David's firmware seems fine to me.

R
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Points: 1725
Re: Another Resurrection

Nice conversion (or I should say, nice resurrection?), congratulations!

As you know, it is not advised to drive a vectrix (or any EV) without BMS.
Consider installing at least a cell monitor with a relay, to ensure everything is fine while riding/charging.
I know, these cells you've manually equalized in parallel can stay in balance for years, but is is a matter of time that one cell spins off the correct voltages: under this situation the chances of getting a nice fire under the seat increase dramatically...
By the way, do you know if Marc Navarri still owe a Vectrix?

Vicens
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Joined: 07/30/2016
Points: 49
Re: Another Resurrection

MOSFETmeltdown wrote:

Hi Vincente,
Thank you for commenting.
I paid around 170 euros for a main board from a compatriot of yours in España (Marc Navarri)
I've charged a few times already with no problems and I've completely removed the cooling fans. Also my leaf cells are the 2nd generation 'lizard' chemistry and very heat tolerant - to say nothing of the zero temperatures around here lately ☺️.
I'll see how I get on.
David's firmware seems fine to me.

Marc navarri I know him. Is changing the battery of your vectix and some things more. We've been talking about messages.

Can you tell me which charger has your vectrix? The charger in your vectrix works fine. It's okay to warn dogas.

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Another Resurrection

Wise words ☺️
I did think I'd check the cells individually every 2 months or so - sort of keep an eye on things.
I'd quite like some sort of multiplex device to check all the voltages, as I'm already 'tapping' all the cells.
I have a temperature data logging device to fit as some stage.
I also have a 75 watt db-to-dc converter to fit too. 150v to 15 volt, not 12v though.
Buenas tardes!

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Another Resurrection

I don't know if he still has a Vectrix for sure, but I'm fairly sure he still has one.

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Another Resurrection

Charger is an ESD type.

LeftieBiker
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Points: 852
Re: Another Resurrection

Don't count on the Leaf "lizard" cells to resist extreme heat. While they do better in moderate heat, pack temps above 85F or so, if sustained for long times, can still degrade them. I added a cheap thermometer, with remote probe, to the top casing. It tells me when I can charge with no worries and when I should wait a while.

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Another Resurrection

Good idea - I'll do the same.

Hall9000
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Points: 75
Re: Another Resurrection

LeftieBiker wrote:

Don't count on the Leaf "lizard" cells to resist extreme heat. While they do better in moderate heat, pack temps above 85F or so, if sustained for long times, can still degrade them. I added a cheap thermometer, with remote probe, to the top casing. It tells me when I can charge with no worries and when I should wait a while.

Nissan reminds me of GM.The same that happened to the Ev1 , where Gm put delco defected batteries on the car on purpose , while they have the nimh batteries from Oxinsky.The same happens with the Limno batteries of the nissan leaf , and env-200 , for me is almost impossible that a company the size of nissan , could fail on the heat testing of those batteries.So for me the strategy is very clear , a play a game of two sides , i manufacture evs , so the general opinion support me , and i own the majority of credit emissions , and in the other hand , i put defective batteries on my cars , so the people don't get too excited by the technology and buy me diesels and ICE trucks.Nissan could perfectly launch the env-200 with 40kwh to 60kwh , but they sell a lot of diesels and gasoline units of this model , so if they lauched the env-200 with this size of battery , without degradation chemistry , all the fleets around the world , would stop buying ices , and change to electric even if the ev cost around 50.000 eur units.

So the game manufacturers are playing is basically , there will be evs , but a the pace i want.¿Why honda , kawasaki , harley davidson , suzuki , and at the end the great motorcycle manufacturers didn't begin with ev motorcycle revolution?Because when people taste the electric powertrain they will not go back.Because in the motorcycle ev market , there's not any motorcycle brand like tesla.

The chinese brands will rape the electric motorcycle market.You only have to look , at brands like gogoro , niu , xiaomi , to see that chinese brands are reaching quality standarts that make them appeling for the first world markets.China is doing the same transformation as Japan on the 60's and Korea on the 80's.They're begin to contract eurpean and us designers , and ally with big stablished brands as panasonic and bosch.Even in China are begining to emerge the all in one products (design , production planing , resources , and marketing) and theyre selling to the developed countries.

They're abandoning the copy/paste thinkthank ,and developing things their own.Even in the next documentary i will post , from WIRED , they're begining to say "-I want to see made in China , and feel proud of it".

https://youtu.be/SGJ5cZnoodY

MEroller
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Re: Another Resurrection

Hall9000 wrote:

So the game manufacturers are playing is basically , there will be evs , but a the pace i want.¿Why honda , kawasaki , harley davidson , suzuki , and at the end the great motorcycle manufacturers didn't begin with ev motorcycle revolution?Because when people taste the electric powertrain they will not go back.Because in the motorcycle ev market , there's not any motorcycle brand like tesla.

If you are talking porper motorcycles - not scooters, there of course IS a counterpart to Tesla: Zero Motorcycles...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Hall9000
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Re: Another Resurrection

MEroller wrote:
Hall9000 wrote:

So the game manufacturers are playing is basically , there will be evs , but a the pace i want.¿Why honda , kawasaki , harley davidson , suzuki , and at the end the great motorcycle manufacturers didn't begin with ev motorcycle revolution?Because when people taste the electric powertrain they will not go back.Because in the motorcycle ev market , there's not any motorcycle brand like tesla.

If you are talking porper motorcycles - not scooters, there of course IS a counterpart to Tesla: Zero Motorcycles...

I don't think so.Farasis is not Panasonic.Farasis can not be supercharged , even if they allow it , in the zero package they didn't fit thermal management.The first truly tesla bike , will be a 20-30 kWh made of 18650-20700 and thermal managed , and of course supercharging.With 20-30 kwh , even at one C discharge we are talking of 26-40 hp.They could use 2000 18650 ncr18650pf 2900 mah , 21 kwh , 5000 eur battery on cells only (even cheaper if you buy zillions) 96 kg only cells, yeah you have to put charger , motor , MC , all the bike , but you could design such a a bike well bellow 20.000 eur.You have to add 15-20 kg for a thermal management systems , bus bars , bms and cage.Even if the battery weighted 120 kg , you could still make a good bike , don't forget that C evolution weights 265kg.

Rolli
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Joined: 10/23/2015
Points: 36
Re: Another Resurrection

I also think there is a counterpart to Tesla not cheap but I think you don´t want this power on low temperatures and Tesla isn`t cheap Lightning

Hall9000
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Points: 75
Re: Another Resurrection

i'm not sure , but I think that lighting has the same problem , supercharging.And they use even expensive batteries than Zero, Enerdel.Lighting is going the same path as my beloved Mission.But in the other hand they had two versions , 12 kwh (racing mode) and the 20 kwh (long range).

It's clear now , that the tesla success can not be translated to the motorcycle industry.Maybe they have to begin with the oposite , big corporations making very cheap mopeds/75cc ev equivalents and then , improving developing new models every time more complex and expensive.

At the end the zero is not as successful as tesla cause' , zero is giving you a 250-400 cc with the price of a bmw rr(not counting the lol effect when they tell you the charging time).In the Tesla case , the comparison between what the ICE establishment was offering and the Tesla ev where not so huge.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Another Resurrection

I'm not convinced that Nissan deliberately sabotaged the Leaf. Why? Because when the cars were tested, they were tested in Japan, with its nice, cool climate. The Gen 1 Leaf does fine in nice, cool climates, even reaching 100k miles, in a few cases, with little degradation. The problem is that once you get warmer than "cool" the first gen Leaf cells deteriorate rapidly, and Nissan didn't want to spend the extra time and money developing a thermal management system (TMS) for it before releasing it, because their testing didn't show the problem. When they became sure that there was a real, worldwide problem with the packs, they developed a better chemistry for 2013 (not implemented until April 2013 in US-built cars) that resists moderate heat fairly well, and resists time related degradation even better. I have one of those, and if you keep them cool, or at least not-hot, they last well. Ironically, I probably have the old, "Canary" chemistry in my Vectrix, so I'm being extra careful not to get it too hot.

Hall9000
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Re: Another Resurrection

¿Are you suggesting that nissan or aesc , does not own a weather chamber?Like these:

wheather control.jpg

wheather control 2.jpg

batery thermal.jpg

When a battery is test prior to marketing , it has to pass test , to get certification.Nissan was perfectly aware of what was selling.

MEroller
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Re: Another Resurrection

The obvious lack of proper automotive temperature range tests on the Leaf's battery cells and the blatant lack of full battery temperature control and management is also my greatest criticism of Nissan, and has been from the very first time I ever saw the specifictions of the Leaf. I also have a REAL hard time believing Nissan engineers simply forgot to do this, but saying Nissan did it intentionally to harm the big EV-push initiated by Renault-Nissan's CEO Carlos Ghosn himself I find to be a little steep nevertheless...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

boeingpilot
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Joined: 09/27/2015
Points: 91
Re: Another Resurrection

I think you're unrealistically critical of the Dugas firmware. I've been running since last spring. The only issue was a failed EVPS charger, and those have known reliability issues with or without Dugas firmware (do a google search, you'll see)

Other than that I have experienced no issues with the firmware.

LeftieBiker
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Points: 852
Re: Another Resurrection

The obvious lack of proper automotive temperature range tests on the Leaf's battery cells and the blatant lack of full battery temperature control and management is also my greatest criticism of Nissan, and has been from the very first time I ever saw the specifictions of the Leaf. I also have a REAL hard time believing Nissan engineers simply forgot to do this, but saying Nissan did it intentionally to harm the big EV-push initiated by Renault-Nissan's CEO Carlos Ghosn himself I find to be a little steep nevertheless...

I think that the engineers would have preferred a TMS but that Nissan corporate overruled them, in order to get the Leaf into the market ASAP.

MEroller
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Re: Another Resurrection

LeftieBiker wrote:

I think that the engineers would have preferred a TMS but that Nissan corporate overruled them, in order to get the Leaf into the market ASAP.

That would nevertheless be a highly unprofessional approach to such a crucial issue! Mitsubishi did it right and explicitly delayed introduction of the iMiEV to the European market until thermal management of the battery was implemented. Nissan never even made provisions for such a system, despite the by now very long production run and even a substantial battery upgrade just recently. I have absolutely no sympathy for Nissan on this very basic design flaw!

But we are digressing from the much more positive theme of this thread :-)

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

brian hall
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Re: Another Resurrection

Hi , I'm new here with a vectrix that I just put 18 leaf modules into. Super bike, I want to set it up to charge using dc fast charger . I have my own BMS and Chad-mo setup. I'm looking for anyone close by that has the usb-can adaptor, I'm in SantaRosa , ca. Thunderstruck motors, thanks great stuff you are doing here.
Brian Hall

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Brian HAll
ThunderStruck Motors
707-578-7973

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