The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

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Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92

So I will not make too much of an introduction about my predictions.As I said in the past, my idea was that the chinese will do the same thing in the smartphone market but this time on the Ev market.

If we take a look on the xiaomi, one plus , huawei phenomenon , the times when chienese manufacturers were copying and not innovating are over.

The same thing happened with the japanese brands on the 60" , and the koreans brands on the 80".

When you dont have the "know-how" , the experiencie and technology, you simply copy the best there is.

Now the time has come, when the chinese or taiwanese, have the same know-how, the manufacturing plants, the designers(even european)and the resources to develop from scratch.

That's the example of xiaomi, huawei, tescend, one plus , gogoro...

And like I predicted, NIU!

NIU will save vectrix users..., take a look at that:

https://youtu.be/tLWEg7QxfcM

Not only i am sure it will be a lot cheaper than the vectrix or the BMW c evolution, but it upgrades all the vectrix flaws, like the kevlar transmission or the middle motor, or even accesory batteries to incrase range.

Here is another video of the little sister of the project X , the NIU GTX:

https://youtu.be/T402CkZlfIc

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Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Govecs will be over soon too.

Panasonic battery, bosch motor and controller, philips led light:

https://youtu.be/cw8mmA8TLIo

Hall9000
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Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

More project X images:
niu_projectx_001.jpg

niu_projectx_002.jpg

niu_projectx_003.jpg

niu_projectx_004.jpg

niu_projectx_005.jpg

niu_projectx_006.jpg

niu_projectx_007.jpg

niu_projectx_008.jpg

niu_projectx_009.jpg

Sorry for the bad quality cause this forum compresses to much the images.

MEroller
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Points: 847
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Sorry Hall9000, but I must dampen your enthusiasm somewhat: for now only the small NIUs are available, and are ridden with software faults that make everyday life with the likes of the NIU N1S feel like a lottery:
will it ride trouble-free today, or will it stop me without warning with a fault 30 for instance, will it charge completely or will it end prematurely, will it really charge to 100%, is 100% REALLY 100%, or not rather 90 or 80%, sometimes the charge status automatically drops overnight from 100 to 80% or less, the app (at least there IS an app...) seems to be in alpha stage without any real outlook of when it will mature to a beta or proper production ready-ready state, it only knows Chinese local time, no matter if the scooter is in Europe or the US, ... Oh, and that is only a partial excerpt of all I hear, see and read on the German language elektroroller-forum.de about NIU hell.

There is such a plethora of teething problems that I would make a VERY big detour around the those upcoming monster scooters until the smaller bretheren have become truly reliable modern electrics.

All that initial mayhem aside, I am also looking forward to what will be coming out of NIU factories in the future ;-)

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Hall9000
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Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

I'm aware of all the problems you mention.

BUT:

Was the Vectrix troublefree?

We know all the problems the Vectrix has, so it's unnecessary to explain.But the Vectrix is a very buggy(software bugs) scooter, poor design , poor hardware...

Was the BMW C evolution troublefree?

There are videos of people that risk their lives on the highway cause the scooter suddenly stops.

Was the govecs troublefee?

There are a lot of batteries from the first and second generation lasting about 180 cycles, only 9000kms and you have to change the whole battery.

Was the zero troublefree?

Here you have a lot to choose , dont forget the retail prices at wich was selled.

Was the renault fluence troublefree?

No comments either.

Was the nissan leaf troublefree?

frog battery, arizona , seville...degradation, AESC selling all the assets to NEC.

Was the tesla roadster or the tesla model S troublefree?

Both cars had a lot of issues with transmissions and electronics.

I can continue and to be more precise with the flaws of a lot of these vehicles.So because all the mentioned above , i think will give NIU a chance of redemption, even if it's crowded with errors , flaws and software bugs.I am pretty sure that all this problems will be resolved like in any brand.

israndy
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Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Why do they show all these fancy videos but the one thing the object is supposed to do, move, it doesn't. They simulate the motion with flashing lights in that one video. I would be much more enthused if they took it outside and it went from point a to point a + a few feet.

And a dark bike in a dark room? I guess marketing has yet to come to China. They make some amazing products, if they learned to market them they could ask for more dollars for them.

-Randy

__________________

Also a new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, and a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
RVs: a 40' Airstream Sky Deck, a 23' LTV Serenity RV
EVs: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, and in line for the new Tesla Model 3

MEroller
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Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Hall, your thread title "The Chinese will save us as I predicted." is what bothers me most. Is just wanted do dampen your hyped-up thread title a bit...

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

PJD
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Joined: 11/22/2006
Points: 1411
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

OK, Hr. Erollier, maybe it is the Chinese AND the Germans who will save us - that is, assuming you can keep that quasi-fascist AfD out of your government...

But one thing for sure, as someone who had the misfortune of having born there, I can confidently say that the certifiably fascist-led USA is definitely NOT going to save us or anyone else in the world - quite the opposite.

R
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Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1754
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

NIU will save vectrix users...

I'm wondering what have you been smoking. Save vectrix users from what..?

From 300 km of range on a single charge? Oh yes, wait, you're still on ancient niquel cells.
From 13kw power charge? Oh, wait, so you are still using these crap defective EVPS charger... is it still working? really?
From the 240 A of power of the parker engine? over 40HP! Niquel cannot give you such full power.
Maybe you need us to save you. Fancy an upgrade?

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Calm down Roger..., there's no need to such tone.I smell somewhat of a political desilusion in your argument, let's speak with respect and not being childish.

I am speaking of price and reliability.

And when you state that the nickel battery is just nuts from the battery perspective point of view, your arguments are agree with mine, because the shitty batteries the vectrix had where the default product so stating that changing the battery in the vectrix is better than to buy a whole and finished product is nonsense.

Yes, obviously if you invest in 3 to 4 modules of tesla model s and change the charger,and a expensive BMS, you have a wonderful vehicle.

The vectrix is somewhat a good product if you take the time and money to acomplish it, so in that regard I think that there's no discussion.

But, you are riding an experiment without manufacturer support.

And let's not speak of reliability , because the vectrix lacks it in every corner you look at.Blown motorcontrollers, blown ICM , blown charger...and they're not cheap either.Even the instrument cluster is outdated and a mess.Think of the possibility of an android cluster, the customizaon and cool features that could be implemented.

Yes maybe, it will take time to NIU to get adressed all the software bugs , and other hardware stuff, but they are putting quality stuff in their scooters , bosch, panasonic , philips.., I mean , if they continue to bring quality and get rid of the things to improve , they could have a good product.

And the same conversions that are posible in the vectrix , are posible in the NIU scooter, but i predict again that a lower price.

If you look at the design of the NIU products i see a great advantage over the vectrix design,and that is simplicity.

Roger next to were you live in Saito motors, they have the N1s/CIVIC, you can if you want, go and see by yourself the quality of the scooter.

PD: Don't take it to personal, it's just an opinion, not a religion.

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

There are western auto comercials that even don't include the vehicle, so in that regard i assume they use some kind of marketing poetry.

By the way..., do you remember the Ev1 from Gm? Do you remember the add of the car?, that add included a lot of cooking and house apliances going towards the car and lauching a subliminal message to the audience:

This car is a household appliance...don't buy it.Just buy a pick-up.

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

israndy wrote:

Why do they show all these fancy videos but the one thing the object is supposed to do, move, it doesn't. They simulate the motion with flashing lights in that one video. I would be much more enthused if they took it outside and it went from point a to point a + a few feet.

And a dark bike in a dark room? I guess marketing has yet to come to China. They make some amazing products, if they learned to market them they could ask for more dollars for them.

-Randy

There are western auto comercials that even don't include the vehicle, so in that regard i assume they use some kind of marketing poetry.

By the way..., do you remember the Ev1 from Gm? Do you remember the add of the car?, that add included a lot of cooking and house apliances going towards the car and lauching a subliminal message to the audience:

This car is a household appliance...don't buy it.Just buy a pick-up.

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

MEroller wrote:

Hall, your thread title "The Chinese will save us as I predicted." is what bothers me most. Is just wanted do dampen your hyped-up thread title a bit...

Paradoxically , the chinese are the leaders of renewable energy, batteries , and EVS.I think they are making a great effort and a better effort in solving environmental issues.And obviously at a better rate.

If someone could take the lead and teach the world a lesson that country is China.

MEroller
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Points: 847
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

I do not see ANY paradox at all in the fact that China leads the push for renewable energy now - after they successfully destroyed large swaths of their own environment, poisoned the earth and air so that some children have never seen a blue sky in their liftime, and respiratory maladies plague their city dwellers and even neighboring countries - turning towards renewable energy and sustainable farming and industries are absolutely mandatory for their survival!
And having no experience with the complexities of modern internal combustion engines they did the only sensible thing to heavily invest in "new energy" vehicle development and production. China is certainly not out to save the world nor teach it any lessons - but much rather to save themselves while flooding the world with their products and reaping the rewards ;-)

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

MERoller , your arguments lack half of the information.If China didn't embrace capitalism and became the factory of the world, uncle sam would blocked china a long time ago, like Cuba , Venezuela , Iran , Russia , and all the people that qüestion the regime of the industrial american military complex.

Look what happened at Taiwan , Japan and Korea , uncle sam thinks that the entire world belongs to him.And please let's not speak about Germany, a satelite of EEUU in europe thats just provoking Russia in every movement they do , not to mention also the promotion of the diesel engine that had contributed greatly to pollution on cities we live.

Now China has a great army and that is good, because if china has a great army , uncle sam will not dare ro invade his next objective.

MEroller
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Points: 847
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

I think I will leave the nations bashing to you, that is not my style. But I am also quite stoked about the new moves that NIU is proposing, just that I rather dampen my excitement until I see that they actually deliver on their product announcements.

__________________

My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

R
R's picture
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Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1754
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

But, you are riding an experiment without manufacturer support.

Again, you're wrong. There are people like jimwebo that use Tesla modules: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14365-conversion-vectrix-vx1-tesla-modules.
We do not support this kind of conversions, they take too much time to build, and they do not give 100% safety&reliability. They are too dangerous for inexperienced users.
We encourage to use official upgrading kits, please check the web: http://www.shop.vectrixparts.com/category/batteries-battery-pack?horizontal
You can choose any official upgrade kit, fully supported from the manufacturer, We will gladly install it on your vectrix.

And let's not speak of reliability , because the vectrix lacks it in every corner you look at.Blown motorcontrollers, blown ICM , blown charger...and they're not cheap either.

According to my personal experience:
Blown motorcontroller: false. It was the undersized 125A fuse from 2007-2009 that blowed. Upgrading to 200A fuse solved the issue.
Blown ICM: False. I just found a pair of ICM not working, in red mode. Reprogramming them trough jtag bring them back, and they work properly again.
Blown Charger: True. The chinese EVPS charger was a complete nightmare. Some 9 year old chargers run fine, some bad units only lasted 1000 km. Bad manufacturing often leaded to random failures in electronic core. Fortunately the new 3,3KW TC charger is trouble free. Any conversion or new unit we sell is equipped with new reliable TC charger.
The other nightmare was the Chinese GP cells, and the unprotected, bad designed 1st gen BMS.

New technology have good charger, battery with automotive quality, which offer fantastic performance over the years. The new BMS, on 4th generation, offer full protection and active balance port, for fast equalitzation. Any old vectrix upgraded to new technology is fully reliable, a blast to ride.

Please, don't discredit the vectrix just only because you still ride old crap technology and to only get 10 km of range. Honestly, I don't think vectrix owners need to be saved from the Chinese.

Hall9000
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Joined: 08/27/2015
Points: 92
Re: The Chinese will save us as I predicted.

Exactly you are right, to much text to agree at the end.

"Honestly, I don't think vectrix owners need to be saved from the Chinese." That's true, we agree.

BUT!

I honestly think that the vectrix owners need to be saved BY the Chinese.

Vectrix is semi-dead, and having vectrixparts selling parts like they were plated in gold is not realiable and mass-marketed.

I didn't said that the project X is perfect and the vectrix is just plain shit.

I just said that in the case the price is fair, and the reliability improves, vectrix users can have another option that does not imply non-proven third parties.

You even said in the past, that the planetary gear of the vectrix had a poor design, and the motor in the wheel was another poor choice.The sound and the weight in the vectrix is just not right, and that's a fact not an opinion.The project X has the motor in the same place as the BMW C evo, and has a belt transmission, that last thing surely is an improvement.

I think that if another competitor enters the game in 2018, like NIU, the competition like any other market only benefits consumers.

And at the end, time will tell.Only time will show us if NIU delivers quality, reliability, price, and features or is just another imported chinese e-bike manufacturer, but if we use our inteligence and we look at the numbers on the table, China is selling millions (not only NIU) of e-bikes, so just NIU will grow and expand, and improve a lot of things, only taking in account the money they will do there.

If you compare gogoro or NIU, to zero, vectrix, energica, brammo, govecs... somebody will say that the quality and the specs are not there for the chinese, but wait to see the money they make in their respective countries and i'm quite sure thay will be a tough contender.

So I say again, and that's a fact that riding a vectrix is an experiment, and this again is a fact.

And yes you are right, you can fit in 8,13,15,21 or 30 kwh and a expensive BMS,very good chargers and so on, but this is right and true for a lot of bikes, in the states or germany you can do a conversion better than the vectrix.

So for my part and taking in acount that i'm not rich like you, and i don't use my vectrix every day, i can wait and see if NIU or another manufacturer offers me a better option that does not include me feeling like a rich early adopter.

Because maybe in months I can buy the same, official, cheaper, lighter, more silent and efficent.

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