Do we have to regress to the stone age?

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reikiman
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Deron made an interesting question in a sideways fashion ... in [node:1519] ... he admitted he does do a lot to reduce his carbon footprint while earlier he made it seem like we'd have to regress to the stone age Re: a crude awakening (the oil crisis)

Okay.. I think I've done a lot to reduce my carbon footprint.. despite traveling regularly around the world, that is. I've got EV's, walk or ride a bike whenever I can, I recycle, by used stuff when I can, give stuff to goodwill when I can, etc etc.

But there's this big picture question. If technology is the culprit - almost every kind of technology you can think of has a nasty side effect, some kind of poison that's spewed into the environment, not to mention the pollution issues which are thought to be causing global warming. So if technology is the culprit maybe we should all give up on technology and live in the woods and scrounge for berries.

Hurm.. that may happen anyway given the likelihood of the peak oil (and other resource) phenomenon. Once oil becomes scarcer than the demand for oil ..ah.. that should be, um, "interesting" to witness. The U.S. is already fighting an illegal war in Iraq to gain a semblance of control over the oil in Iraq. It is a looming worry in my mind..

The peak oil phenomenon applies to other resources as well, not just oil, the principle is the same for every resource. That there is a capacity for each resource, and a rising demand for the resource based on rising population levels. But at some point the capacity to produce that resource becomes outstripped by the demand and the availability of that resource enters an inevitable decline. This pattern has played itself out in country after country with oil.

I know the Mad Max movies are just movies but the story they tell is of a society collapsing after the decline in availability of oil. I think that is one of our possible futures, something like what they portray. A possible future, mind you.

The thing is we have available ways to use technology in a different way. One that doesn't follow a consumptive pattern ... the mindset of mining a resource, using it to make a product, use the product for a few seconds, and then throw it away, ignoring possibilities of reuse. The mindset leads to a consumptive pattern which simply is not sustainable. If instead things and products became a cycle of recycling materials then the peak resource phenomenon would not be a problem. And there are technologies to produce energy while decreasing the poisonous side effects.

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deronmoped
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Joined: 12/25/2007
Points: 342
Re: Do we have to regress to the stone age?

OK I'll play.

This is how I answered John's comment about only having to do minor things to fix GW/CC on the other thread.

John

The only problem with not doing anything drastic is it will not be enough.

You are forgetting to:

1) Count the six million people that get added to the planet every month. More energy users.

2) Take China into account, they are turning into huge consumers, using way more energy then ever, with no end in sight.

3) Allow for people of other countries that would love to improve their living conditions. We can not expect other people to live in poverty conditions just so we can enjoy our luxuries.

4) Allow for the chance that the Sun or natural conditions on the planet could accelerate GW/CC. We need to include a fudge factor to be on the safe side.

5) Allow for the chance that the scientist could have underestimated the GW/CC problem.

6) Allow for the cheaters, you know there will be plenty of them out there.

7) Allow for the people that get exemptions. The handicapped, sick, old...

8 Allow for the people that can afford to buy credits. They get to, so someone else has to cut.

It gets real complicated real fast.
Burning less gas in the car does not mean that gas does not get used by someone else. It's like what they do here in San Diego, they get people to conserve water, but the amount of water used goes up every year. The only thing conserving water does, is it allows builders to build more houses so more people can move into this "coastal desert". Of course they do not tell you that. They realize that people will pretty much swallow anything they tell them, as long as they put the right spin on it.

Deron.

gushar
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Joined: 07/02/2008
Points: 359
Re: Do we have to regress to the stone age?

Hey, you make my point again...that I just made in reply to Deron over under the other subject line about the coming oil crisis film.

Think a bit more "forward" in the use of technology...that's all I'm saying. We just need to "think" these things through more...before using technology in any old kind of way. There are plenty of examples historically of how humankind has not given enough "real thought" into how we have used technology...and what adverse future affects or circumstances might come of it. Sometimes I think it was just a matter of "we'll worry about that when the time comes...so let's go ahead and do this for the immediate benefits." How bout nuclear waste...do we really think that burying it in barrels in the earth is a smart thing? Don't think anyone really cared so much at the time but rather spent more of their mental ability figuring out how to make nuclear weapons, out of fear (cold war, etc.).

Gushar

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