The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

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DonCristobal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

By the way, I'm trying to convert a car to electric too. If yer interested, go here:

-Click here-

Edit andrew: fixed the link

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

peasler
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Hi Don - just wondering what your odometer is up to now. I was at 632 ( I think mine is in KM) and the controller went out. Andy sent me another one and I just finished installing it. I currently have around 675 on the odometer wanting to break the 1000 mark. I would like to get around 6000 real miles ( 9500 km) out of the present battery pack. Take care.

DonCristobal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

I'm not sure what the ODO is at, but I'm at about 300 real miles. The bike has not been running. How bout that? Special, huh?

I've got no time, and I am only writing to offer potential advice.

My DC-to-DC converter has blown twice now. Fernando was very quick to get back to me, within 12 hours via phone. He conferenced in Andy and we troubleshooted my issue. Once I was able to inspect that bike and ensure that there were no loose wires I told EVTA to send me a new DC-to-DC converter. I got the part in less than a week, installed it and voila it worked. I drove it across the street, turned around and then it died again much like before. I took the bike to Electric Motorsport in Oakland, CA. I took it on the BART train by the way, which was pretty cool. Anyhow, EM replaced the DC-to-DC and it worked great. I took the bike home and rode it maybe half a mile. The next day I rode it about a mile from my house and it died again. That was a fun push, mainly slightly down hill so that I could ride it like a foot scooter. AHHHHH!

Okay, so here's why I am writing. The guy at EM thinks that the problem is likely due to the EVTA wiring which doesn't have a hard fuse or something like that which connects to the DC-to-DC converter. He has fixed a couple bikes since I had him fix mine and he believes that is all that needs to be done to fix it for good.

On a side note I was told that if I change the oil in the front shocks to something thicker that they will not totally suck like they do. Has anyone done this and does anyone agree that the shocks, especially the front, totally suck?

So, Fernando is very good about getting back to me, Andy is not. I haven't heard from either of them in two weeks. Here's a simple word of advice, when you have something to do, write it down, pin it to something, and don't take it down until it is complete. Try this, "DonCristobal's scooter doesn't work. Call him back and work with him until it is fixed. May 23rd" That would help a lot. I'm not pissed necessarily, I'm just over it.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

andrew
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Don, sorry to hear about your Z20 problems.

I think the DC-DC problem could be due to a noisy input caused by the controller. It may be helpful to put a capacitor across the input. Is this what they recommended at EM? Another possibility is of course a short.

Heavier oil will improve damping a lot, and smooth out the ride. I would start with 20W fork oil, and go heavier if needed. If they are bottoming, then it may help to stiffen them up which may require switching out the springs, or adding air pressure if they are the type that use air pressure.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

jstibal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Andrew,

I think your suspicion of the DC-DC problem being related to the controller may be right on. My first DC-DC converter failed, and after Andres told me that they would send me a replacement and to trash my old one, I fixed the old DC-DC by replacing the internal, soldered-on fuse with an externally accessible fuse. The bike worked for a few miles, then my new fuse blew 3 times in short order (turn key on, apply throttle, blow fuse, replace fuse; repeat). Because I didn't want to be stranded by another failed DC-DC converter, I had wired in a bypass switch for the DC-DC converter that simply took +12v off of the last battery in the string (in an emergency, I'd rather drain one battery more than the other four than be stranded). I figured the DC-DC was bad and switched over to my 12v bypass. That got me going again, and the controller failed within 1/2 mile.

Since getting the warranty replacement controller from EVT America, I've had no problems and driven about 100 actual miles; prior to the controller failure I had driven perhaps 25 miles. I would think that if the problems I had with the DC-DC converter (the initial failure and the subsequent blown fuses) were related to a short somewhere, I would still be experiencing DC-DC converter failures.

Jon Stibal
2008 EVT America Z-20A
2011 CMC C130 - my daily driver:

DonCristobal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Not like any of you are going to be surprised, my Z-20b doesn't work and hasn't worked in more than a year. That's because it is a piece of crap.

In summary:

3 burnt out DC-DC Converter
2 burnt out controllers (current problem)
1 burnt out charger

Total Mileage ~ 200 miles

Did I mention piece of crap?

So, since I cannot with good conscience sell it to anyone but an EV expert, I have a question for the group. Do I buy a nice controller from Electric Motorsport and hope that does the trick, or do I donate it/have it destroyed?

If I do get the controller, is it something I can do myself? The answer is probably no, anyone want to do it for me? I'll pay of course.

Thanks.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

DonCristobal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Not like any of you are going to be surprised, my Z-20b doesn't work and hasn't worked in more than a year. That's because it is a piece of crap.

In summary:

3 burnt out DC-DC Converter
2 burnt out controllers (current problem)
1 burnt out charger

Total Mileage ~ 200 miles

Did I mention piece of crap?

So, since I cannot with good conscience sell it to anyone but an EV expert, I have a question for the group. Do I buy a nice controller from Electric Motorsport and hope that does the trick, or do I donate it/have it destroyed?

If I do get the controller, is it something I can do myself? The answer is probably no, anyone want to do it for me? I'll pay of course.

Thanks.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

Mik
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Hi Don,

I think any further money spent of fixing the Z-20 is wasted!

It was really hard to believe how long you kept hanging in there and waving the flag for them, but the frame, controller, suspension, brakes, just everything about them seems to be crap! The batteries, too, I guess. Nothing but a ripoff.

The only use would be as a museum piece ar as evidence against the people who allowed it to be imported as a registrable roadgoing vehicle. Unbelievable!

Good on you for trying for so long, but it seems totally hopeless.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

FTissot
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Hi Don,

I have been reading your experiences, and was almost convinced on buying an electric scooter until your controller/DC-DC converter burnt out.

Here, there is an EVTA partner that are still selling the Z-20a model. They will only start selling Z-20b model next year. They use other names, but is the same Scooter, maybe the motor is a little different.

And what about now? Will you buy another EV? Or quit this and return to gas?

I thank you for your posts, and be certain that somehow you helped this manufacturer to climb another step to get a better equipment and a lot of people interested in EVs.
Have you noticed that this EVTA have another scooter with Kelly controller? Maybe you could talk to them and discover if this controller solved the problem you had. I'm sure they changed the type of controller for reasons like yours.

I'm from Brasil and if you fail fixing your Scooter and decide to donate it, i'm interested.
I know nothing about shipping, but i'll try to discover ASAP, and if you are up to donate and it's viable to me to pay the costs and everything else, i'll keep it.
Electronic is my hobby, and i'll have pleasure in "play" with it. On the other side, here is very dificult to get replacement parts

Peace out

DonCristobal
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Re: The Z-20 Experience as told by DonCristobal...

Gas? No, not for me. I ride a road bicycle with side bags and a rack now. I've got fenders on it and great rain gear so rain or shine its not an issue. I've got aspirations to perhaps get a Native Scooter from Electric Motorsport because I trust them and their craftsmanship. I'd also be down to buy a Brammo Enteria or the GPR-S from EMS, but none of the bikes are in a price point that is feasible. I can afford them, but since it isn't a requirement to have one its just a little too frivolous right now.

As far as the EVTA bikes are concerned, the effort that was put into the design and construction of the Z-20b was really shameful. They put more effort into their marketing than anything else and I wouldn't be surprised if that is still the case. Missing screws, different sized screws, bent screws, pieces not put together properly, all evidence of people not caring about how it was put together and evidence of lack of oversight and inspection. I used to think that all of the issues were a consequence of naivete, but I've since come to view it as blatant disregard for quality and in some cases, safety.

I have no interest in shipping internationally, I only have an interest in someone showing up with a truck and taking the bike away. All in all it cost me about $3000, a lot of time, stress, and most of all disappointment.

Buy a bicycle and ride. It's easier than you think.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

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