Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

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RTSlater
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Joined: 03/04/2008
Points: 5

I am trying to make a decision as to which Bike, an X-TREME XB-600 or a Liberty EB-643, I should buy. Can anybody who has actually owned, as opposed to having an opinion on, either of these two machines advise me? I cannot seem to get any warranty or service information from any of the distributors for the Liberty EB-643. I am leaning toward the Liberty because of the extra power but I am not interested in purchasing a machine without either a written warranty and/or some sort of track record from an owner rather than a dealer.
Thanks

David Chisholm

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gushar
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Joined: 07/02/2008
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Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

I've had the xb600 since last July. To date it's been a very good product for me. It's solid, great ride, and so far dependable. Max speed on the flats is going to be 20...and maybe a bit faster according to your weight. But not much. But then if you really want more speed then I think you have to get into something like the Zapino or the old XM2000/Erato, etc.

I understand that xtreme now provides a 90 day warranty on the xb600. Also, one of my concerns is availability of parts. No matter what quality things are going to wear out. From what I've learned xtreme provides most all the parts for their products. ArticFox on here and JDH are both xtreme dealers and AF recently checked for me about continued availability for parts. Seems xtreme is focusing on their e-bikes and so parts should continue to be available...

I actually bought my XB600 via ArticFox (www.basestationzero.com). At the time he covered the extra $70 for driveway delivery so it only cost me the $799 purchase price and was delivered right to my door. If you do go with the XB600 you might consider either one of these guys (AF or JDH) here to handle your purchase. ArticFox provided me great customer service...and continues to answer any questions I have regarding my XB600. And note that I have absolutely no business relationship, etc. in this. I'm just another EV enthusiast who came to this forum, and happened to make a purchase via one of the folks who post here. And my initial reason was simply because he offered the special deal at that time for free driveway delivery. However, again I was glad I purchased via him since he provided me really good customer service as well.

Ok, sorry...didn't mean to be a running ad here...but I just wanted to pass along any info which might be helpful to you in case you decide on the XB600.

I could not find the Liberty model "listed" on their website...although I think there was a picture of the model there. The site seems very confusing to me. Anyway, so I'm not sure about it and can't really say anything one way or the other on quality since I'm not familiar with it. Search here on the forum on that model though because I did find some posts and a picture on here.

I'll just again say that I'm very pleased with my XB600 and think it's worth every cent I paid for it. It looks great, is fast enough for me, and so far is dependable. I also know it will get the approximate 30 miles range since I've tested that. It's not a real hill climber...although I've not had it stop on any hill...just slow on a couple of short steep ones in my area. But, again if you want a real hill climber you'll have to get into something like the other bikes/scooters I mentioned....no doubt...or much lighter smaller e-bikes. Note also that I've never used the pedals...never even installed them...never intended to when I purchased since I was told, and it's true...that you just don't need them. I also took the chain off since I wasn't going to install the pedals. I don't even know how practical it would be to try and peddle the thing! I continue to believe that the addition of pedals was just to make it legal in the US anywhere bicycles are legal...without registration, etc.

Hope my remarks here are helpful. I also have a pic of mine posted...just do the search. And if you have any specific questions about the XB600 just PM me here...or post to the forum. I'll be glad to answer anything I know about it from my real world experience of riding it weekly.

Gushar

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johny b
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Joined: 02/11/2007
Points: 29
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

I sell both of these brands at my shop. I can tell you that the Liberty 643 comes with this warranty page in your manual.

"Warranty: With normal care and recommended maintenance, this electric scooter is warranted to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for the following period of time:
3 months – electronic controller, charger, battery, and throttle
6 months – hub motor

We will repair or replace, at our option, any product or part that is defective in material or workmanship, without charge if the product is presented to us at our authorized Liberty Electric Bike Service Center at 1-800-806-7109, with dated proof of purchase inside of warranty period.

This limited warranty does not cover the normal wear of items such as tires, brakes, chains, and other items."

I like the 643 myself (especially in red), but that is my opinion.

RTSlater
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Joined: 03/04/2008
Points: 5
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

Thanks gushar and johny b,
Drove 3 miles to work today at 20 to 30 mph. Sure glad I did. Changed my mind on what speed I want in an electric Scooter. All the roads to work are 35 mph. 20 Mph just too slow for the other traffic. So now I am looking for something a little faster.
Thanks for your advice, however
David

johny b
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Joined: 02/11/2007
Points: 29
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

Liberty has two faster bikes/scooters you might want to look at. They are the ES3000 that does 42mph, and the EM3500 that will do 61mph. I have found out that the Liberty bike specs are pretty close to real world specs not your typical factory specs.

RTSlater
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Joined: 03/04/2008
Points: 5
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

johny b,
Ok thanks. I will take a look at both of them and get back to you. If you have any on line brochures please send me the links. Where in USA are you based?
David

gushar
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Joined: 07/02/2008
Points: 359
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

Glad you realized you would need more speed before you purchased...

I did go back to the Liberty site and saw the 643. It looks almost exactly the same as the xb600...except with a 850w motor rather than the 600 watt. I wonder about the range claims though since it still has the same spec batteries and I know the xb600 won't go more than about 28-30 miles on a charge with a lightweight rider. So I would question the dealer's assertion above that Liberty's specs on range are "real world."

Also, I don't see the faster Liberty scoots he mentions on their website anywhere???? And with all due respect I believe I would have seen all kinds of comments on here if there's a reliable, practically priced scoot that will do 61mph that is currently available! But maybe I'm wrong about this...that's always possible! Can you elaborate more on these models you mentioned...(slater).

Also, the 643 says "servo" rear brake. What does that mean exactly? Is that the "electrical" type braking that happens on the xb600 to the rear tire when the front drum brake is applied? Is that the same on the Liberty 643? Been curious about this ever since I got my xb600.

Gushar

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johny b
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Joined: 02/11/2007
Points: 29
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

You can find the models listed for the higher speed Liberty bikes on the Liberty web site at the top left hand side of their home page. The link is under: NEW!!! Electric Motorcycles, or at this link, http://www.iloveebikes.com/em3500.html The range specs are close to real world not exact, but close. Remember that your ice powered vehicle may not meet factory supplied specs exactly either, it is close. This is why the terms; range up to, and speed up to should always be on factory specs. If one person drives two identical vehicles on the same test route the same way they most likely will come up with different specs for performance. Every product manufactured is just that manufactured not an identical clone of the original so variances in performance should be expected and understood. One must understand that new batteries and conditioned batteries will effect speed and range also. I hope you can find what you are looking for.

RTSlater
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Joined: 03/04/2008
Points: 5
Re: Quality of Liberty EB-643 vs XB-600

Thanks for the reply! I realized after some research that the scooters I wanted were either too slow, too unreliable with quality control problems, still in the prototype stage notwithstanding the wishful thinking of the designers, engineers, dealers, or far too expensive for me. I think the electronics, (controller), and motor, (mechanical power), technology is well on its way to reliability so now the obvious limiting factor is the power source, (the batteries). I did some more research on batteries and hit the jackpot! There is a revolution taking place in battery technology that will have profound implications for the electric vehicle industry, the 2 wheeled versions in particular.

http://www.iloveebikes.com/batteries.html
http://www.7gen.com/website-categories/silicon-battery
http://www.lifebatt.com/new2/retail_sheet.html
http://www.lifebatt.com/new2/retail_sheet.html
http://www.lifebatt.com/new2/retail_sheet.html
http://www.lifebatt.com/asksparky.html
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/12/could_silicon_whiskers.php
http://wnc.us/e-max/batteries.html
http://www.pronto.com:80/mpm/Battery-for-Treo-650-700w-n_985202242_10304761815-PP
http://wnc.us/e-max/batteries.html
http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v3/n1/full/nnano.2007.411.html;jsessionid=700AE5AC348E857BB7618E7EA34740A3
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=104140
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080115-new-silicon-anodes-could-result-in-battery-breakthrough.html
http://car.pege.org/2007-e-max-s/greensaver-silicon-battery.htm
http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2003/renew-energy-batt/betterlithium.html
http://www.urbanmover.com/technology_batteries_silicone.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ0SNESIkWk&NR=1

These are the batteries that will revolutionize energy storage technology but it will probably be 5-10 years before they are on the market at a reasonable price. The newest tech batteries are still very expensive but I think that the competitive pressure will bring the price down very soon, assuming that we do not stumble into a global depression causing the consumer market to crash.
Check out the capacity in amp hours and the weight and dimensions of the batteries that are on the market right now! Ignore the prices for now of course.
If I was still young enough, with enough energy and time to spend fixing all the bugs on the scooter of my choice in the 30-40 MPH range I might be tempted to buy now, in spite of all these factors. However given the way companies are coming and going on the market, I think I will wait until all the wannebees and dreamers are shaken so that all I have to do is get on the bike and ride!

RTSlater

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