1981 Yamaha 650 XJ conversion
I have 2 bikes, both Yamaha 650 XJ's One is a rider, great condition, second I got for a parts bike. last week I decided to convert the parts bike to Electric. I found this kit that sounds nice, 72 Volt Perm 132 Kit with Contactor. On this site http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/parts.htm. Not sure what batteries to use yet as it is just a big empty now, but I figured I could use the gas tank as a box for most of the components besides the motor to help it retain its looks and leave space for batteries. Biggest question is can I use the drive shaft or would I have to replace the whole rear wheel. Im hoping I can either use the universal mount connector from the engine directly on the motor shaft or rig up a sprocket and weild the connector to it and use a small belt or chain to the motor. If I can use a belt there would be no chain sound at all when it is in motion. I dont have a website set up yet, but I have been taking picks of it from start to now with the engine and other do dads off if anyone wants me to email some pics like starter pic and pic with engine off etc. Still have the electrical on it and have found LED light replacements on ebay to help save energy.
I am also thinking of deep cycle batteries from optima http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/ . I am not sure what the packs cost that folks here mention. I might be able to get one of those for the cost of 6 batteries from optima. and maybe it would all fit under the tank instead of using 4 under and 2 saddle bags.
Any help is appreciated, I'm learning fast on this one. Maybe next time I'll try a car conversion. I have a 93 Grand Am that just had engine problems :)
Since it sounds like you're just starting out on ... I gaurantee you this will be an 'interesting' journey ... find these books: The Secrets of El Ninja, Convert It and Build your own Electric Vehicle. El Ninja is especially relavent as it goes directly into converting a motorcycle.
However it doesn't discuss shaft driven motorcycles.
A wonderful resource is: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum ... it's full of vehicle examples others have converted and you can contact some of them for advice.
Biggest question is can I use the drive shaft or would I have to replace the whole rear wheel. Im hoping I can either use the universal mount connector from the engine directly on the motor shaft or rig up a sprocket and weild the connector to it and use a small belt or chain to the motor. If I can use a belt there would be no chain sound at all when it is in motion.
Do you know the transmission ratio for the shaft drive?
I have done some calculations re: drive shafts - have a look if you think it makes sense
There is a real good document about converting a Yamaha shaft drive bike (I think its a Seca 750)at [www.Endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php]
Go to the section "E-scooter and Motorcycles Photos and Videos" and from there, look down through for "My Daily Communter" by 'Fingers'. It is a PDF document with story and pictures.
Good luck and welcome to the club :)
You can try out this link: http://electricmotorcycles.net/modules/toolbox/battery_worksheet.php to get an idea for speed and range calculations. It's set up for a chain driven bike - but you should be able to "fudge it" to give the appropriate gearing for your shaft drive.
I'm converting a CB-750 (waiting for the weather to warm up before venturing into my garage again).
If you don't want the bother of setting up a website then you could start a blog here instead.
I had a XJ650 here and looked into the concept. Good news is that the ratio is 4:1. Bad news is the Etek would need a jackshaft. If you do go with the Perm, make sure of the proper rotation if there is one...
Are you still set on that kit? My best guess (without any calculations) is that the gearing will probably be too low for that motor, or not enough reduction, with it directly mated to the drive shaft. The pancake style motors tend to heat up really hot really fast with too many amps. A Few people on the electric motorcycle listserv have had eteks fry due to overheating, which is a similar motor to the Perm PMG132. John Bidwell, the author of El Ninja had an etek overheat in his test bike when geared at a drive ratio of 6:1. The Perm motor does produce more torque (wired for a slower speed), but it is only about 48% more per amp.
Another down side with the Perm is that it is limited to a CW direction of rotation. If you need CCW rotation for the drive, than you are SOL, as the direction can be reversed, but at a much reduced load.
A better choice would be a series wound ADC motor IMO which will be more robust, and capable of taking more amps to produce the torque needed for that drive ratio (3:1?). Series wound motors are more suited for applications requiring high torque and high current, but they are also larger and slightly less efficient. On a positive note, if you did a direct drive with one of these, you could easily get a 65-70 mph top speed. And you'll most likely never have to worry about hitting these motors with amps, unless you got a real high amp controller.
Preferably I would like to see the gear reduction higher, but unfortunately this doesn't appear to be very easy in a direct drive setup. I was thinking a planetary gear system might work, but I have no idea how to set this up properly, nor which one to use.
BTW, electricmotorsport has created a new site and it beats me why they don't put up a new link to it:
the link above for the 750 conversion will probably be closer to how I end up going
I hope you are not talking about my bike. I don't suggest you do a setup like mine. Here's some background on my project.
What I liked most about my project was the challenge in figuring out how to do things, than seeing if it would work. I'm still in that stage. I just figured out how to do something really interesting on it (I'll post details in time). But, what I mean is, I never really did my conversion for the finished product. I just really like the challenge in it as a project. And it is an ongoing challenge.
And now I kind of see that this was my interest throughout the project, and what kept me involved. So, I've developed a better understanding of my interests. And here's some thoughts and suggestions from my experience that I can pass on.
I think it's important to understand your goals, and what is motivating you to do all of this, before you take the plunge and spend a lot of money. If you want a finished product that can go 50-60 mph for 50-60 miles, than seriously, just ride your gas bike (and I really don't mean to throw a wrench in your plans!). I'm just being realistic. That would be very difficult to do, even with a huge budget for LiFePo4 batteries. And TBH, I don't really see the purpose in doing that if one had the money. I can ride my gas BMW as fast as I like (or as fast as I would really want to) for as long as I want, and riding it beats the heck out of riding my electric (no worries about energy, just pull the throttle back and relax...). But something keeps me coming back to my electric, and keeps me interested in it.
Maybe its my own geekiness and imagination, mixed with some fantasies about riding off solar energy, idk. Or the fact that it's a unique experience every time I pull back on the throttle hearing the motors energize, and watch people staring like there not sure if it's nuclear powered. :) Maybe its the fact that I couldn't go to a motorcycle dealer and buy an electric bike that has me caught up in the novelty.
Anyway, here's some realistic expectations as a guide.
Realistic range goals are about 15-20 miles with lead-acid batteries for a ride profile of 45-55 mph. If the speed was limited down to <40, than this could probably be stretched to 25-30 miles with enough batteries.
As the speed increases the range can drastically drop off. At mostly 60 mph I can get about 8 miles out of my motorcycle, where I normally get about 10-11. My battery pack is on the light side, and if range was a concern, I'd upsize the battery pack to at least 50 ah at 72v.
so, are you LOOKING for a series motor?
I might just have an extra K91 sitting around :)
thats the curve for it.
is the drawing for the model I have. I will be cutting a keyway in it, and trimming the shaft if you want, since I have do it on mine anyway.
its 18hp peak at 72V, with 50ftlbs of torque. 56lbs.
email sent.... We'll work something out. I want to keep it in the Electric motorcycle community.
*sidenote, i just bought a NICE charger on ebay today... Its a Vicor AC/DC supply*
Frodus, I have several Vicor supplies...they are great! Which did you get?
well, I have some plans... but I just bought this:
VICOR PM1-03-48 AC-DC SWITCHER
32A 48V switching power supply 1500W total, 110/220 input AND.... HV DC input (100-300VDC).....
and some (yes, multiple) VI-232 (48V-12V 100W DC-DC's)... so you might put 2 and 2 together :)
You looking to sell that harley?