Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

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Mik
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And they also deleted a reply I posted at http://www.voltsrider.net/vr/forum_posts.asp?TID=29

Here is the text that was deleted:

Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by VRadmin
Hello,

No, I am not familiar at all with this "rule" you are posting here, nor do I understand why you are posting here and then posting over at VisforVoltage.com in a manner that appears to once again to be some type of attack on Nova Scooters, which I own.

I have already contacted the webmaster of that site regarding unwarranted negativity on that site regarding my company when I posted the announcement of our opening on that site's "Dealer Deals" section.

It appears that the persons in control of that site are continuing to foster a spirit to attack Nova Scooters and now our customer forum. There have been several posts on that site in the past few days that infer some type of negativity towards my company and web sites...

1- That we constructed some special rule for those that register on this forum that included posts can be "removed for any reason" as detailed in the terms of service, true, it does say that, and it is the "canned TOS" that ships with the forum software, I did not write it.

2- That "usatracy" had an account here one day and was gone the next, that "account" was not created by anyone we know, and we suspect we know now from whence the account originated. I cancelled that account.

3- There are a number of Visforvoltage forum users that are creating accounts here, posting information of some type, then posting over on VisforVoltage that they posted here ,saw this or that, have concluded this or that, whatever....

Do you Gentleman not have a life?

It is hard for me to believe that you spend your days this way, although it is somewhat sexist for me to say, some of you on VisforVoltage remind me of a bunch of "gossipy old women". You seem to take enough pride in what you are doing to actually post and brag about it on the other forum, I think at some point you will realize that you actually should be ashamed instead, I will leave that to your peers, you know, the other 99.89% of VisforVoltage that is not trying to attack my company and forum.

As for the two individuals that seem to be at the heart of these attacks, both here, and over the previous week prior to this site going on-line, I shall have to suspend your accounts since you have nothing to contribute and seek only to spread gossip and innuendo to entertain yourselves and impress your friends.

Thanks to the rest of you and WELCOME, it's your forum, use it as you like.

Karen Searfoss
President and Owner
NOVA Scooters LLC

Am I one of the members going to be suspended?

It was not apparent to me that this forum is owned / run by Nova Scooters, know nothing about Nova Scooters.

But I do want to know if and who controls stuff, it's highly relevant.

The background to my post is that USATRACY was banned or similar from the Visforvoltage forums. I disagreed with that.

I believe that he is one of the persons behind the "ScooterTech" personality here, but of course I cannot be sure of it.

Because there have been various discussions about USATRACY being involved with a business selling scooters (and he posted himself that he will be shipping scooters on April 1st) there might be some doubt about the "Independent Testing of ....." kind of posts by USATracy.

The "Rule" I posted above was proposed by USATracy.

It seems they did not like it somehow, for now my username and password do not work any longer.

So much for my test run at Nova Scooters, short and bitter-sweet.

And yes, I do have better things to do that waste any more time posting anything there.

Make up your own mind about it, I am done with them.

Mr. Mik

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

Yeah, my account no longer worked either. I just re-created another account - and I'll see what happens.

I'm not sure what or who they refer to in terms of "posting here and then posting over at VisforVoltage.com in a manner that appears to once again to be some type of attack on Nova Scooters". But seeing as my account seemed to get deactivated in some way then I'm wondering if they're refering to me as well.

I'm actually trying to support them by making some initial posts on their board. I also just directed someone who inquired about the XM2000 to check out Nova Scooters. Hmmm, we'll see - it seems they're already playing politics - but I don't know if they've changed the wording relating to that.

I'll see if they delete any more of my posts (no big deals on the ones they did delete - they were just forum suggestion things).

Oh, BTW - I was one of the folks that first starte asking over here for people to put their affiliations in the signature field. And I did display my web site for the longest time - I only removed it because you can't actually by the XM-2000 any more. I suppose I should put it back at some point (just did, see below)...

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ArcticFox
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

Having personally witnessed the attitude and deceptive nature of the owner of (the months old) Nova Scooters/Volts Rider, I would strongly suggest not doing any sort of business with him or his associations; I feel it will only lead to more problems than would be worth for anyone.

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

ArcticFox wrote:

Having personally witnessed the attitude and deceptive nature of the owner of (the months old) Nova Scooters/Volts Rider, I would strongly suggest not doing any sort of business with him or his associations; I feel it will only lead to more problems than would be worth for anyone.


Until as recently as this morning I would have (respectfully) disagreed with ArcticFox. Now, however, I too would no longer feel comfortable recommending Nova Scooters to anyone. This is based on their communications with me via the Nova Scooter's message board VoltsRider.net.

Here's the latest in my own personal soap opera (it helps to illustrate (a) my change of heart with regard to recommending Nova Scooters & (b) the sort of "devil my care" attitude that VRAdmin employs when deciding to delete posts.

Unfortunately I no longer have rights to post to the voltsrider.net message board (but as a note to VRAdmin - that doesn't stop me being able to view posts). VRAdmin took those rights away from me because I was classified as a "trouble maker". Here's the final post where they "explained" their reasons - they've since removed the thread (and another couple of threads and posts of mine).

VRAdmin wrote:
jdh2550 wrote:

"I'm not sure what or who they refer to in terms of "posting here and then posting over at VisforVoltage.com in a manner that appears to once again to be some type of attack on Nova Scooters". But seeing as my account seemed to get deactivated in some way then I'm wondering if they're refering to me as well.

I'm actually trying to support them by making some initial posts on their board. I also just directed someone who inquired about the XM2000 to check out Nova Scooters. Hmmm, we'll see - it seems they're already playing politics - but I don't know if they've changed the wording relating to that."

Yes, it was VERY transparent when a person from MICHIGAN emailed us, so we laid it on thick, by the third email when they asked if we knew JDH on V, it was obvious. And we gave you a glowing recommendation and told them to buy a Zap or buy something from you as they are outside of our current service area. Next time, tell them to fill the contact form out completely, instead of leaving a name like Mary T , then stupidly entering their phone number which we googles and it came up with their first and last name, in Michigan, then were like, isn't that odd, no last name, but they give us a good phone number, and they're in Michigan, just like JDH, and they have all these questions and want to buy a scooter. Good job Columbo, better luck next time. So far you are batting 1,000. The first round of your investigation got you banned from our email, now from here.

Go play games on V, from this point on you are a computer trespasser here. We blocked your email a few days ago, we let you on this site because the intent is for it to be a public site. You want to attempt to play and be all cute and innocent, not going to fly, go away. Then you're dumb enough to actually post on V that you have a ringer call us to pump us for info.

Why all the "subterfuge", do you people have a problem ASKING a question, THAT'S what started all of this you recall. ASSUMPTIONS AND INNUENDO AND NOT HAVING THE BALLS TO ASK A QUESTION DIRECTLY.

jdh2550 wrote:

I'm actually trying to support them by making some initial posts on their board.

Thanks, we have all the support we need, give your support to that other forum, splitting your time between the two can only reduce the quality of your posts.

Thank you

No w I realize I have blocked your IP and you can't see this, so one of your cronies will have to mail it to you. Maybe MARY T can do it, I have her number, should I call her and have her relay for you ?

I was genuinely happy when Mr Mik posted that it appeared that Tracy Ingram was posting on a message board called voltsrider.net. I missed both the substance and the style of usatracy's posts. It's good to have someone "shake things up". So, I was happy when I made the assumption that ScooterTech was the same person that was usatracy on this board - who is Tracy Ingram. My posts in reply to Mr Mik's threads didn't seem overly negative to me - they weren't intended to be. I'm sorry that VRAdmin seems to have taken them that way.

Is the "MARY T" you refer to the same one who posted over in this thread: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2878-new-member-z20b ? If so, you're jumping to some wrong conclusions. That thread is the only contact I've had with a "MARY T". You seem to imply that either I was posing as Mary T and contacting you or that Mary T was acting on my behalf? I assure I was not. I was referring to a completely different reference I made in an email I sent to someone on the west coast of Michigan just a few hours earlier today. That person had inquired about the XM-2000. When I'm at my other computer I can post that e-mail if you like? Mary T, if you get to read this, I apologize that you inadvertently got caught in the middle of this

I honestly don't know what question she asked so I have no real way of responding to this:

VRAdmin wrote:

Why all the "subterfuge", do you people have a problem ASKING a question, THAT'S what started all of this you recall. ASSUMPTIONS AND INNUENDO AND NOT HAVING THE BALLS TO ASK A QUESTION DIRECTLY.

Now, it's quite likely you are referring to the "storm" that brewed up and resulted in you being banned or removed or whatever from this forum. If you recall I did explicitly ask the question "Is Karen your wife" in an email to usatracy@hotmail.com. I don't think I received an answer to that question - so do you not have the balls to offer a simple direct answer? Of course, I should have asked "what is your relationship to the Karen Ingram who is listed as the owner of Nova Scooters LLC?" (Yeah, yeah, I know you're not required to do or say anything - save it, OK?)

Quite frankly I'm fed up with being treated as your enemy - I guess I'll give up with (ignored) emails trying to make the peace with Tracy. So be it.

To those thinking of doing business with Nova Scooters - I expect that you will get exactly what is advertised. Just don't mention my name or you might get a free insult or two thrown in.

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

Mik
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

jdh2550_1 wrote:
ArcticFox wrote:

Having personally witnessed the attitude and deceptive nature of the owner of (the months old) Nova Scooters/Volts Rider, I would strongly suggest not doing any sort of business with him or his associations; I feel it will only lead to more problems than would be worth for anyone.


Until as recently as this morning I would have (respectfully) disagreed with ArcticFox. Now, however, I too would no longer feel comfortable recommending Nova Scooters to anyone. This is based on their communications with me via the Nova Scooter's message board VoltsRider.net.

I feel very similar.

They are also EDITING the posts I put in there without making it clear, but continue to use the rest of my post.

First the hyperlink to the http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3056-yamaha-virago-electric-conversion
stopped working as a hyperlink, now it has disappeared altogether.

This is what the edited page looks like at the moment (except for the pictures):
http://www.voltsrider.net/vr/forum_posts.asp?TID=11

Quote:

This post was just pasted in from an earlier post (HERE IS WHERE THE LINK USED TO BE)

Just to help test if it all works...

Andrew wrote:

I think a shaft drive would be a really good idea in combination with a planetary gear system. Planetary gear systems suitable for this are available as automotive replacement parts. Without a planetary gear system, the reduction ratio would most likely be way too low resulting in poor efficiency.

End of quote.

I might be making some massive mistakes in my calculations and maybe I misunderstand the characteristics of motors and transmissions involved, but.....

I believe either of the motors below could go straight onto a Virago 700-1100 shaft drive via a universal joint!

.

Using this very handy Tire calculator:
http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro_website/TechnicalPages/TRC%20calculator.htm
(and also by calculating "manually") for the Virago1100 rear tire size of: 140/90 15 70H
I get a Rolling circumference of 1931mm.

.

To reach a top speed of 150km/h the rear tire needs to travel 150000m/hr.
150000m/60min = 2500m/min.
2500m/min : 1.931m(circumference) = 1294.7rpm for the rear wheel at 150km/h.

.

A Yamaha dealer told me on the phone today that the Virago secondary transmission has a reduction of: 44/47 x 19/18 x 32/11 = 2.875
I believe the 32/11 refers to the ratio for the actual drive shaft pinion gear and the ring gear (see picture posted earlier).
This would mean that the drive shaft alone has a reduction ratio of 32/11:1 = 2.91:1. (This lies just in the middle of Grandpa Chas' and my pixel counting estimates.)

.

1295rpm(wheel at 150km/h) x 2.91 = 3767rpm for the motor at 150km/h.

.
For various speeds:
5024rpm (motor) at 200km/h.
3757rpm (motor)at 150km/h.
2512rpm (motor) at 100km/h.
1256rpm (motor)at 50km/h.

.
Did I calculate that stuff correctly so far?

.
Now to the potential motors:

This one would run at 48V to 84V and appears perfectly suited (if I understand correctly what those curves mean):

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_ac-induction.php

This second motor would run at 72V to 120V:
http://www.evmotors.com.au/products/l91.html
http://www.evmotors.com.au/products/download/L91-4003.pdf
I find this diagram more difficult, but it contains much more information.
What I believe I can extract from it is that the full range of required speed is covered by the engine, and that it will only be working at full efficiency at very high speeds (around 160km/h).
Would that mean that average speed has less of an impact on range, because as wind resistance rises (exponentially, unfortunately) the motor efficiency improves?

The main problem might be the physical length of the motors, plus the universal joint - I might have to take the front wheel out, but they have enough grunt to do wheelies, anyways...

.

The wheelbase of this Virago 1100 is probably 1525mm.
When using a ruler on the photo it appears that a 29cm motor should just fit there nicely....

And BTW, the BMW R-series bikes I researched all had drive shaft ratios around the 3:1 mark as well - if my calculations etc. are correct that would mean that there are many bikes to choose from that offer the low-noise, low maintenance drive shaft option for EV conversions.

Mr. Mik

------------

There's always a way if there is no other way!

Edited by VRadmin - Today at 3:50pm

I believe they should remove the entire contents I posted there or leave them unedited.

.

No matter if there is or is not a law about this:

It is in my view unethical to partially modify content created by someone else without making it clear that it has been modified.

It is in my view also unethical to run a web forum without making it clear on every page of the forum that it is run and (ruthlessly) controlled by a company with a vested interest in the content of the forums.

.

The idea to start a dealer operated support forum is good, I wish Vectrix started a website like that to help sort out the issues. But of course I would also insist that they make it clear who they are.

Mr. Mik

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ArcticFox
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

I have a forum that I could install for everyone, but since we already have have V, I see no need for another. :)

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Mik
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

I wrote:

No matter if there is or is not a law about this:

It is in my view unethical to partially modify content created by someone else without making it clear that it has been modified.

It is in my view also unethical to run a web forum without making it clear on every page of the forum that it is run and (ruthlessly) controlled by a company with a vested interest in the content of the forums.

Mr. Mik

All my contributions to the Voltsrider.net forum have now been removed by Nova Scooter, except for the shell of one post, which now announces:

Quote:

THIS POST REMOVED AT AUTHORS REQUEST

Edited by VRadmin - Yesterday at 9:10pm

Thank you, Nova Scooters and VoltsRider, that is at least half-true!

.

It appears to me that Nova Scooters runs VoltsRider.net.

I also believe that Nova Scooters controls Voltsrider.

And I believe it to be true that the VoltsRider forum does at this stage not declare that VoltsRider is managed, controlled and edited by Nova Scooters.

I believe that as long as all contributors to the forum - and readers of the forum - are made aware of this state of affairs, it would be perfectly alright to use VoltsRider to sell Nova Scooters.

It would also seem OK to me if Nova Scooters reports on VoltsRider.net about problems and solutions for all types of vehicles, even those sold by the competition, but only as long as the readers are made aware that Nova Scooters currently have a vested interest in the information displayed on VoltsRider, and that Nova Scooters currently controls the information on VoltsRider.

I believe that today VoltsRider is not an independent forum.

This is of course only my humble opinion and it can be seen from various different angles, make up your own mind, please.

You could also ask VoltsRider and Nova Scooters yourself. Maybe you have a better chance to keep your member login if you use a private message though...
But of course that functionality is not yet available on VoltsRider.

ScooterTech from Nova Scooters on VoltsRider wrote:

If she buys it then then the upload, pm, email and other features will be enabled and the google ads removed.

Mr. Mik

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ArcticFox
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

Hmmm...

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Volts Rider = Nova Scooters have "banned" me

Over on voltsrider Scootertech and VRAdmin (both likely Tracy Ingram) had a long argument with one of their customers. As I expected voltsrider then unilaterally deleted the post. In another post Scootertech (likely Tracy) boasts to the customer about the fact that he was simply posting to "trick" the customer into providing information (he references the original thread as a honey pot).

Be careful when dealing with Nova Scooters, this sort of deceptive practice (using a "honey pot") as a way of "customer service" seems like a bad idea to me and I just want to warn folks to consider what happens when things don't go well.

Ironically, Tracy had a similar battle and falling out with X-Treme when he asked them to replace his battery and they refused. Of course Tracy will tell you that situation was entirely different. But the outcome was pretty much the same: Tracy felt that he was wronged by X-Treme, X-Treme felt they were harassed by Tracy.

BTW, I have a copy of both pages from voltsrider - not sure it's a complete record (I gave up reading along after about 10:30pm last night) but it certainly shows the main substance of the interactions.

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Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

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