Phoenix has new web site, good news

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miro13car
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Joined: 02/24/2007
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There is hope that Phoenix will become reality soon first as a fleet car.
New web site confirms that.
But we want to see real SUT s seen on California roads.
Miroslaw

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gushar
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

I couldn't believe Ian Wright's comments...he was quoted this morning on Good Morning America saying electric car technology is 20 years from being practical. Hogwash! That kind of misinformation does nothing to further the truth that electric vehicle technology as it exists is practical today! Perhaps he meant for everyone to be driving his 170 mph indy style electric!

Gushar

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gushar
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

Disregard...didn't think my previous post went through!

Gushar

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Gus

CGameProgrammer
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

Just because it's useful, that doesn't mean it's practical. Electric cars are severely limited compared to gasoline cars right now. For one thing, nearly all electric concepts are extremely small and/or lightweight to try to help make up for the system's shortcomings, all have limited range, and all require at least a couple of hours to recharge, and you'd have to go home to do that since there doesn't yet exist an infrastructure for public roadside recharging (even though it's simple to do). So you can forget about 300+ mile road-trips; a 200-mile-range car cannot stray more than 100 miles from the owner's home.

You can hop in a gasoline car and drive literally anywhere and have plenty of power to do so, and can drive a very powerful sports car or very heavy truck if you so choose; gasoline engines have no problems handling that. Obviously electric motors are just as good but batteries are not and they are the limiting factor.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

CGame,

I am wondering how far you drive each day. If I had an electric car with a range of 50 miles @ 60 mph, which I believe is achievable today, I could save lots of money in transportation cost. Even if I had to spend $2000.oo a year on new batteries I would still save money. When I look at how much it cost to drive my gas car to work and back each day, about $1500.oo per year just in gas. Also you add oil changes, filters, mileage (causing resale value lose), and gas treatments (to keep the injectors clean so it will run), tuneups, and other expenses, the cost is higher. Using an electric car with very low maintenances would be a great option as a second car. I did not include brakes or tires because both will use those. I don't believe anyone here thinks their EV will replace their gas car for long trips, however if long trips are made infrequently you could just rent a gas car and eliminate owning a gas car all together.

BTW if I went to visit friends or relatives in a car with a 200 mile range and they lived 160 to 180 miles away I am sure I could get enough charge, while visiting, to get back home.

Just my thoughts,
Grandpa Chas S.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

CGameProgrammer wrote:

Electric cars are severely limited compared to gasoline cars right now.

Yep can't argue with that. However gasoline cars are MASSIVELY over specified in terms of power and range for what the average consumer uses them for (less than 30 miles per day). The automobile marketing machine continues to stress this over specification as not only a good thing but almost as a necessity. I don't know how many 2 parents and 2 kid families I've heard say "we need this big van or SUV - what if we have to take junior's friends along?" How did we ever survive before mini-vans and SUVs? Those must have been dark days, right?

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chas_stevenson
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

jdh2550_1 wrote:

How did we ever survive before mini-vans and SUVs? Those must have been dark days, right?

I remember we had station wagons (Crossovers) and people did not care how many people were in the car and 12 year olds did not need a booster seat and... Well you get the point.

BTW you can thank Ralph Nader for most of the garbage we have to put up with today. What a moron in my opinion.

Sorry, I'll go back to my coloring book now,
Grandpa Chas S.

pchilds
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

I don't know about the rest of you guys; but, I walked to school, from kindergarten on and was never abducted or molested on the way. Now you see dozens of SUV's lined up to drop off their children, mean while destroying our planet with their 10 mpg gas guzzlers, you may see one or two being walked to school, the rest are chauffeured.

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andrew
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

Quote:

Just because it's useful, that doesn't mean it's practical. Electric cars are severely limited compared to gasoline cars right now. For one thing, nearly all electric concepts are extremely small and/or lightweight to try to help make up for the system's shortcomings, all have limited range, and all require at least a couple of hours to recharge, and you'd have to go home to do that since there doesn't yet exist an infrastructure for public roadside recharging (even though it's simple to do). So you can forget about 300+ mile road-trips; a 200-mile-range car cannot stray more than 100 miles from the owner's home.

You can hop in a gasoline car and drive literally anywhere and have plenty of power to do so, and can drive a very powerful sports car or very heavy truck if you so choose; gasoline engines have no problems handling that. Obviously electric motors are just as good but batteries are not and they are the limiting factor.

That's a pretty common argument, and it's a good one. But, how do you fuel your gasser once oil is gone? No one really knows how much is left. We are using new technologies to suck it out of the ground faster making it look like there's plenty of supply. It could be gone in a few years as a viable fuel source for personal transportation in large vehicles. The cost could go up very quickly. We can pump oil out faster now to get more, but once it's gone, it's gone.

Secondly, your expectations are ridiculous for practical transportation. BEVs would work fine for most commuting, and with fast charging and LiFePo4, they'll be practical for road trips in the future.

To quote you: you can forget about 300+ mile road-trips soon enough anyway. Unless, maybe if you buy a horse. :P

strawhistle
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Joined: 03/10/2008
Points: 340
Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news


If we are remonising , I remember , the neabor had a horse in his garrege and going around to neighbors to help with the thrashing , two big horses on a tread mill turning the thrasher and a horse pulling a rope !! thru the barn and up to the hay mow bib iron forks come down and pick up hay off wagon and drop it in the mow , riding to town with my brother on a horse and getting home late at night those were good days ! thrasher for all , all shared in the work ,all partied togather . when i got back from NAM every family had their own thrashing machine $40,000.00 and would shot the neighbors dog if it came in the yard !!!! WHAT THE XXXX happened to america ????? how can we get sharing and fellowship back ??? Reduce the surplas population (dickens)??? no spell check

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CGameProgrammer
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

I drive around 80-100 miles a day on average, but on most weekends I go on long trips, and having two cars for one person is impractical and too expensive for me. Therefore I need one car that can do all I require of it. And so do many people.

A series hybrid / "plug-in" hybrid is a good solution. You can avoid using the engine at all for short commutes, but use it for longer ones to give you great range.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Phoenix has new web site, good news

CGame,

Wow 80-100 miles a day, I think you are right for a person in your situation a Hybrid is a much better solution. I do think most people, at least families, would do well with 1 gas and 1 electric or 1 hybrid and 1 electric. I think this would improve the health of our air as well as our planet. Isn't that why we have so many different auto manufactures, because everyone does not fit the same mold...

Take care driving that many miles on the road and watch out for all the crazy drivers out there.
BTW If you see me coming turn around and run I am one of those drivers.(Just Joking)

Grandpa Chas S.

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