Kaishan K500W e-bike review

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

greyeyes259 wrote:

That is bull, i know a lot of people who own electric scooters from work and are not mechanically inclined and they don't own expensive honda they have ebikes etc. That cannot beleive the problems i've experienced with this scooter so early into the purchasing of it.

And by the way i do have mechanically inclined friends. Who do know what the scooter is about, and they tell me i have been missguided about these scooters. And by the way 1500 for a scooter should still get you at least a year of usage. On line there are scooters priced the same with a 2 year unlimited warranty. So say all you want but i know both of you who wrote these little responses work for scooter underground. Because i realize you have more information then i gave online.

My expectations were not too high by the way. I got more out of my $90.00 bicycle then i have received from something that was 10 times more priced. I knew there was maintenance involved but not having my accelarator fall of the first week i bought it and my light switch snapped off, then it broke again, lost two mirrors that i fixed myself after scooter underground replaced them twice. My replacement that i did has lasted for months. So who is the un mechanically inclined. I do no about brake adjustments etc. I'm no dumby and don't ever insinuate that i am.

And also i know someone who traded back their scooter to the same place due to several problems and purchased something else. Amongst others i know of. Say all you want these scooters were made for everyone not just mechanics. Anyone mechanically inclined would drive a much stronger bike. Not one that goes only 32km an hour.

I've sent these responses that you put here to Kaishan themselves to see what you are saying. They will not be pleased because they sell to everyone to use. You're comments were offensive, rude and degrading.

I do not work for scooterunderground. There is no relationship.

I don't even live in British Columbia. I bought the scooter in another province, over 2200 km away.

Any investigation of me would quickly verify this.

Please do not make any further libelous statements.

I am just a guy who has spent some time tearing apart and fine tuning his scooter. The result has been better performance, very few problems and very little money spent...mostly just grease, WD-40, a couple of nuts and bolts and electrical tape.

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

To say that I work for Scooter Underground is not true, and is subject to libel, in my opinion.
as in:

li·bel (lbl)
n.
1.
a. A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.

I'll be looking into this.

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greyeyes259
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Then how would the both of you know so much detail about my repairs. If you don't work for them then you must have gotten information from them on my scooters. I'm not the only one who read your articles and came to the same conclusion. And it's not libal, because it's not ruining anyone's reputation when real names are not used. Even if you did work for scooter underground i wouldn't know which employee. I would personally have to acuse you by name. I know this because i work for a lawyers firm and they said anyone can assume as long no names of the person are used. All i have is your online name. So threaten again all you want.

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greyeyes259
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

i apologize for jumping to conclusions about you and the other guy but still the one comment about having to be mechanically inclined will not make any sales for the scooter in a lot of peoples eyes. Which isn't a good comment for scooter underground either or anyone else selling them. And i also apologize to scooter underground for jumping to that conclusion.

At that i still wouldn't recomend the scooter or your shop due to more problems with the same issue i brought it in for. So i'm getting the parts directly from Kaishan and will have my mechanic friend fix it. I do agree with the one fellow who said if though it was offensive about being more familiar with these machines so i'm going to pay attention when it is getting fixed. And you should also tell customers what they are getting into.

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

"still the one comment about having to be mechanically inclined will not make any sales for the scooter in a lot of peoples eyes."

I am not trying to make sales. I don't work for scooter underground.

I am just giving an honest opinion after driving and working on one of these for almost a year.

If I seemed to know about your scooter, its probably because I have experienced and fixed similar problems on mine.

I really like my scooter. I drove it to work again today, but it's not perfect.

I still think that people who are mechanically inclined will have a better experience. Just look at the short factory warranty right on the kaishan webpage:

WARRANTY: All Electric Bikes come with a 90 DAY WARRANTY ON COMPLETE EBIKE (REPLACEMENT PARTS ONLY), 6 MONTH ON BATTERIES (REPLACEMENT PARTS ONLY), 1 YEAR ON MOTOR (REPLACEMENT PARTS ONLY), THERE IS NO LABOUR WARRANTY IMPLIED

If you are able to cheaply fix the problems that may come along, by doing the work yourself I think you will be happier than the person who cannot.

That being said, I still love my scooter. The sun was shining and the warm wind caressed me on my ride to work today. I rode the elevator up 30 floors with a big grin still on my face. What a way to start a day.

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Well said dp. The sun was bright here today and I too enjoy cruising along our 'Galloping Goose' commuter trail as the weather warms and the flowers pop up. And yes, I have some electronics know-how, but I still have to rely on the shop for mechanical issues. As you memtioned in a post, I'd happily pay for a higher 'gas scooter' grade of bicycle, but I'm not sure that others would be so quick to agree. When I tell people that I paid $1500 for the Kaishan, most people agree that it's a good price, and I do believe that they sell extremely well in Victoria. Still, I tell them to check out the blog and ask questions- the design is not perfect yet, but it's definitely improving as each shipment comes off the boat.
Definitely not down on Motorino's either- they too have made changes in the last few years. I just couldn't get parts! Anyways, happy biking everyone, and happy trails.

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greyeyes259
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Has anyone had experience with the fuse box on the Kaishan constantly flipping off. It was supposed to have been fixed, but again they didn't fix it right. Can anyone give suggestions on how to fix it ourself.

Thank you

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

You could try putting in a new fuse box. You should be able to get cheap replacement that matches the original specs from a variety of places.

However, often the fuse box is fine. It is doing its job and the problem is short circut in the rest of the system. I would be on the lookout for any loose wires or wires worn bare...that sort of thing. I would look for those types of problems before replacing the fusebox.

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

I've had the fusebox problem, not with the Kaishan, but with the former Motorino. Basically, the fusebox was taken off, and I didn't experience any catastrophic meltdown. However, the Motorino was a very heavy machine, with an extra set of batteries, and when I was pulling uphill, I'm sure the amps were very high. Does this happen uphill, dp, or do you keep extra batteries and a lot of weight?

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

I have experienced no fuse box problems with my scooter.

My diagnosis is more based on working with electric parts over the years. Many times when a fuse box starts tripping it is a sign of a short somewhere else.

A couple of times with my scooter, I have experienced indications of loose wires in the system... a momentary loss of power or an unresponsive switch or button that starts working again...that sort of thing.

The electrical system in my scooter is not perfect, so I think its reasonable to think that other people might be experiencing symptoms of similar problems.

greyeyes259
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Thank you for your response we will check out the wires as you indicated. My husband did take my scooter through the same course he does with his and mine was fine. Didn't cut out once (lucky me)

It was just replaced 2 weeks ago but still is doing the same thing. The owner of scooter underground said the new one might me defective and they will fix it under warranty.

But i still agree with you the wires should be checked. Which i will do this weekend and let you know how it goes..

thanks again

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greyeyes259
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

I had the scooter fuse box looked at and it had to be replaced again with the electrical unit. So it had to do with the electrical.

So this time it cost another 114.00 which was better, because we got new brake pads. So hopefully this will take care of the problem.

The boss at scooter underground made sure all the problems were fixed this time. He was quite responsive to our complaints and took care of them right away. He impressed me allot. More owners should be like him.

Now if all goes well i have several buyers who are interested in scooters like ours.

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Greetings everyone. It's been a few months and so I'd thought I'd update the blog. And I'm closing in on 10,000km, about 6000+ miles- I know this because the after market cycle analyst monitor keeps track of these things. However, there was a brief time that the sensor got bumped and improperly reported unusually high speed readings (250km instead of 30km), so I had to do a bit of estimating.
The only maintenance I've had done on the bike since December 2008 involved getting a new set of batteries and, because they're from the factory, they do appear well matched. I've had other after market SLA's and found they don't give quite the range of the factory originals. Could be just a glitch, or it could be that the manufacturer can properly match four 12volt packs, having so many to choose from. Either way, I can now go back to the 60km+ rides.
As far as actual riding, the bike has been problem free, and I'm enjoying riding as much as ever. The car just sits at home, and the only time I use it is in the rain, snow, or when I have to transport heavier items (ie: people). I enjoy rolling along the bike lanes and commuter trails For myself, it's one of the better purchases I've made, although I admit I'm one of the early adopter/enthusiast types.
There are a couple of things I've learned in the last four years of riding: pump up the tires occasionally, check for loose screws/parts, oil the chain, and keep sheltered from the elements. I also know that the Victoria shop makes some changes before purchase that also make a difference (heavier gauge wire for example).
And again, I'm not connected with the company beyond being a customer, and I know people read this blog to find info that can help them decide on ebikes in general, and the Kaishan in particular. With that in mind, I try to report my experiences, both for and against, because I would want someone to do the same for me if I were planning a purchase. That being said, I'd buy another one tomorrow. Happy trails everyone.

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Glad everything is going well.

You've got some good recomendations there. Check the tires regularly as low tires can affect your range. I actually over inflate mine slighlty for less rolling resistance and more range

I have also been using Slime tire sealant with great results. You can get it at Canadian Tire:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/AutoRepairAccessories/Adhesives/PRD~0095068P/Slime%2BTire%2BSealant.jsp

It seals punctures up to 1/4" and if you install before a puncture it can help prevent flats. It's particularly effective on low speed vehicles like our scooters.

Give the break lines a regular shot of WD-40. It makes the breaks more precise and you get much better breaking with less effort.

The Kaishan is also very easy to modify for more range or speed. An additional 12 volt battery can go inside the storage area and be wired in just before the circut breaker. It only takes a few minutes and makes a good bike great.

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Time for another post. No news is good news. Zero problems, and the weather has been cooperating, making riding a lot easier. I use the bike everyday, and I keep thinking, "what else can I write for the blog", but nothing comes out.
So I have a few other intersts to keep me busy- like trying to keep up on battery technology, but everyone's still waiting for the next great chemistry, while SLA's continue to be just fine, for myself anyway. I was tempted with LifePo battery: http://cgi.ebay.com.hk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320437684775&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:HK:1123 . Note that this link will expire soon, I think. Cost of the 48V, 20AH battery is $800, a little to rich for me, and risky because I'm unsure whether or not I'd need a new controller for the bike. Also, as previously mentioned, no real service available if something goes wrong.
I also listen to the evcast.com podcast that talks mostly about electric auto's, but as with the batts, everything is one or two years away (Tesla is the exception). Also Toronto based Zenn motors, makers of electric neighbourhood vehicles, is packing it in, and so the news is not all positive.
But for the bike I ride, pretty well all of it is positive at this point. How are other Kaishan owners doing? (tumbleweeds!). Let us know. Happy trails

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

This has been the winter of no winter in Victoria. A typical January day was between +10 to +12 (50 to 54 F) and very little rain. Thus, I was able to ride more days than not, sometimes the rain kept the bike 'in shed'. I also remembered, back to 2005, why I got into ebikes. My knee joint began to hurt whenever I pedaled a regular bicycle more than two days, so when I saw this new kind of machine I thought I'd try it out. Right from the first ride I was hooked, injury or not, and climbing into the saddle each day is about the same as back then. So now it is spring (raining tonight!), no problems with the Kaishan, and people are coming up and saying "Oh that's so cute, where did you get it?". This happens every March, and every year there's a few more on the road. I'm seriously thinking about buying a LifPo Ping battery when this next pack goes, whenever it happens. Happy trails everyone.

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dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Funny that you posted today. I went for my first ride of the season today. I had to fix a flat from last season before I could get on the road, but the bike seems to have come through the winter fine and I am back on the road until next November.

Pemba1
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Might someone offer a little advice re a 4 year old Kaishan K500w Scooter?

The problem started out as a more or less simple rear tire replacement, but the service shop found some bare electrical wires and a heat welded main wiring plug. The shop did a splice to the wires in place of the plug, replaced worn brake shoes, and now I have a new rear tire but no juice getting to the motor! After paying big $ for this helpful service, the bike doesn't run at all. Where would I look for a fuse or circuit breaker? I have lots of photos of the controller and understand that replacements are not available but there might be a simple fix if I knew where to look and how to instal a replacement fuse or circuit breaker.
Does a wiring diagram exist for this bike or any testing procedures???

I e-mailed Kaishan in BC but they are ignoring all messages and have received no reply. If this is the wrong place to post a problem like this, I apologize and would welcome where to list this one.

Many Thanks
Pemba1

dp
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

The circut breaker is under the seat.

Pemba1
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Thanks dp

It makes sense that there should be one. This is a 2007 model and when I explore under the seat and lift out the two battery packs there is no evidence of a circuit breaker. When the batteries are connected, and key on, there is power to everything except the motor.

Humm - where to go from here???
Pemba1

robert93
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

This really needs its own thread, as diagnostics can get lengthy.

Pemba1
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

The Controller is the brains of the whole system

I have takes images of all the wiring and plugs coming from the controller. Does anyone have a schemanic drawing and voltage expected on each lead

Cheers

Ken

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Hello Ken. Too bad about the bike- been their a few times. I've had controller problems as well. Anyways, there are schematics here:
http://www.scooterunderground.ca/knowledge/manuals/index.htm
And yes, I too would want to check power going into the controller, and also coming out. If indeed it is the controller, you could probably order through any dealer, but I'm not sure of this. Scooter underground has always been able to obtain parts. Kaishan website shows a controller on their parts page http://www.kaishanebikes.com/parts/ and the number is 1-888-539-8318 or 1-604-625-3888.
You know, I have an ongoing google search for Kaishan, and every now and then I'll find one selling for $600. I've always been tempted, because I wouldn't have to wait for parts, but the real problem for me is storage- we have a very small place.
I hope this helps, I always miss the bike when it's not running.

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electric_motorc...
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

324.jpg
very simlier with our hr-015

magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Greetings everyone. Time for another update, and the news is mostly good. I've had some small issues- a brake cable broke (shop repaired with no problem), the switch under the seat occasionally snaps off when the bike is turned off (not really a problem but will still ask the shop to hardwire and do away with the unnecessary switch), and the front tire took a nail (quick fix at home). But overall I'm enjoying the ride to and from work, plus anywhere else in between. The weather in Victoria has been rain free but cool, and conditions are about right for climbing on the saddle and exploring. I think the first time I rode this bike was Nov. 2007- it was a demo loaner, and I'm enjoying as much now as back then. Happy trails everyone.

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Time for another post. And... new tires, brakes and batteries have been added to the Kaishan, all to get ready for our rainy season. Batteries are about every 18 months for me, and this time I decided to go with the Ping Lithiums (48v, 20ah), because I'll be riding an ebike in some form for years to come- at least I hope so. Tires and brakes are more maintenance than anything, eventually I'm going to need them so the shop had the goods and time to install and repair. I also had the front rim replaced, as the wheel was begining to wobble, I probably banged it over a pothole or rock. This can easily happen because it's difficult to see at night- the bike lights are more for being seen rather than showing details of the road ahead. As for riding- still going strong and still enjoyable. Happy trails everyone.

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Time for another update- even if it is January! The bike is running well, especially with the new Ping 48v/20ah batts and new tires. Unlike my last battery charger, this one is quiet when the temperature hovers around 0/32 celsius/farenheight. Riding has been on and off because of the rain- more OK than not, but this is a Victoria winter. What I have been doing is some distance measuring on the rated amp hours- so far I'm averaging 50km/28mi per 20ah's, by checking on the cycle analyst, and I also notice that my speed is slightly faster, due in part to the weight of the battery (20lbs verses 60 lbs. for the old SLA).
And for the riding- it's great. I decided to upgrade the battery's and tires because I'm hard core when it comes to these machines, as much as anyone in the city. I enjoy zipping along quietly being able to take in the scenery and arrive in a reasonable amount of time. I see other e-bikes around and I know three others who have them and they too appreciate the ride, but they have more specialized needs that involve short hops and occastional use. Me, of course, I go everywhere unless it's pouring rain. Viva la ebike. Happy trails everyone.

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Greetings everyone. It's been a while since the last post, and I have had some minor work done (shocks cleaned, brakes adjusted), but overall the bike just keeps on ticking. I still ride all the time, and generally the car just sits a week at a time- my first choice is always the bike. I'm fortunate that I have a shed to keep the bike away from the elements, and I've also learned to slow down on rough roads, I just want to keep it going as long as possible.
I've talked to a couple of people who have had scooter style ebikes (not Kaishans), and in both cases they liked the bikes but both said they would not buy another one. Both had some problems with range, breakdown, and security on the roads. On the other hand, I ran into another Kaishan owner who was also very happy with his ride. The secret, as I've learned, is to take it right away to the shop when any little thing goes wrong. So that's all for now, the new LifePo batteries are fine, and the days are getting (slightly) warmer on the wet coast. Happy trails, everyone.

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magicBC
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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

1032.JPG
Greetings everyone, time for another boring post, because not much has really changed. I don't know if too many people continue to read, but for those who do, I have a thought that we're all wondering how long the ebike can go. Tomorrow I have to get the shocks changed, because they are starting to make a grinding sound, but really it's not that big a deal. The lifePo batts are doing well, no issues, and I get about 50 km per 20 amphrs. I enjoy riding as much as ever and in the back of my mind I'm trying to figure out what my next ride will be. But again, I have no reason to think anything will change soon- I've been riding this bike since about Oct or Nov. 2007 (as a loaner when my other bike was in the shop) and bought it in the spring of 2008. In fact, I'm trying to think of mods that might be practical- so far I've thought of LED lights and bluetooth wired speakers. haven't found anything I like (also asked the shop to look into this). One thing I'm noticing about the bike is that not all parts are in stock. I tried to buy a fork front end, but Kaishan did not have one. Fortunately, the tech has something that will work, so I'll be OK.
I can also talk a bit about the cycle analyst I have on the bike (available at www.ebikes.ca), and say that it's been solid for the 4+ years I've owned it, including my previous bike. The cables on the front sensor rusted off during the rains, but I bought a new sensor and all was OK. The actualy unit has given me valuable info about amp hours used, battery voltage, speed, total distance travelled, and many many other measurements that I usually don't pay much attention to. Just check the generous info provided at the site. So that's it for now, hope everyone has had good rides for the summer- soon the rains will be back in Victoria BC. Oh well. Happy trails everyone, Dale

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Re: Kaishan K500W e-bike review

Hmm interesting thread.. not only due to the model of e-bike (i just recently bought a 500WS) but the fact most of the folks in the thread live near where I live.
I live just north of Victoria over the other side of the Malahat.. and at the time I first considered an E-Bike/Scooter, was living near the actual summit..
I did first email "scooterunderground".. saying , essentially, 'i have money , want a scooter, don't live in victoria, please send some info or a reply".
Although i emailed them 3 times, i never gat any sort of response, so I bought one elsewhere...

So I bought one from Bob Saunders.. just recently (yellow, a bit like the one in the photo here)
It only goes (according to the speedometer) 20 KMpH, though.. and the "manual" such as it is, is no help..
i.e. "please escape to use at a rainy day. Defend lightning strike. please cannot open the crust with charger if not a career man. Othewise. easiness mangle"
Er.. OK..
So firstly, where is that 'Economy switch' that limits the speed to 20KMpH, in case I've accidentally hit it?

Also.. has anyone else solved these problems?
1- It needs two different keys to open the glove compartment and the back carrying unit, and a different one to start it up and open te battery case.. the seat also lifts up, but I cannot get the key to work there , it will not turn.. so why not one key for everything, as the manual clearly states? and is the seat lock broken?
2 - even small bumps cause the most horrendous "Clunk" from the front forks, as though the springs are set much, much too soft. I worry that they're going to break and lose all their
fluid, as that's the normal outcome when the fork springs/shocks are set too soft.. and that can be expensive..
3 - As mentioned before, the top speed is Much too slow, at what actually appears to be 15 KMpH. although the speedometer says 20.. It tends to speed up going uphill, for some strange reason, but not smoothly, but rather in surges, sounding like 'Vroom vroom" (sorry for my lacking in descriptiveness) ) at 2 times per second..
4 - the pedal gears are too low to be of any practical benefit.. you simply can't pedal fast enough to even keep the bike upright, but as an alternative to removing the pedals (which most people do after buying tem ,as they only need to be on the bike at purchase time), but instead of removing them, has anyone found a way to either increase, or asdd higer ratios to the pedal gears , so that a practical assist may be made of?

I also sent these questions to the "scooter underground", but my reply consisted of *only* "no, pedal gear is fixed", and how much their service rates were ($60 PerHr)..
Anyone else have better ideas?

Thanks Doc...

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