Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

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reikiman's picture
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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

Quote:

Within 3-4 minutes, one of the black caps popped off its well again.

I would say that is a description of a very dramatic form of "venting". For the caps to pop off there has to be a pressure build-up inside the battery. Every time this happens you're loosing some of the electrolyte etc in the battery.

As was already said this battery is toast.

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andrew's picture
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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

Tanner wrote:

If the scooter is going to be stored for a month, could the charger be connected during that entire time? Or is there a trickle charger that can be used to keep the batteries fully charged but not overcharged?

I would not leave the charger connected. Without any equalization, batteries tend to float all over the place. Some will be high in voltage slowly being killed, while others will be low. It's better to just unplug the scooter. AGMs can sit about 6 months without a charge provided they are stored in a cool place, and there is no leakage current. To make sure there is no leakage current, it would be advisable to disconnect either the main positive or negative from the pack which should isolate it.

There is an exception. Some high-quality chargers have a pulsing type float mode. The Vectors do this. They will pulse a float charge when the voltage falls. These chargers can be left connected indefinitely without any risk of damaging the batteries. But I would never leave a float string charger connected, and would be very reluctant to leave a 12v float charger connected to each battery, as AGMs are fine sitting for long periods uncharged. They will just need to be cycled a 2-3 times to bring the performance completely back if they are not left on a maintenance float charge.

Tanner's picture
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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

andrew wrote:
Tanner wrote:

If the scooter is going to be stored for a month, could the charger be connected during that entire time? Or is there a trickle charger that can be used to keep the batteries fully charged but not overcharged?

I would not leave the charger connected. Without any equalization, batteries tend to float all over the place. Some will be high in voltage slowly being killed, while others will be low. It's better to just unplug the scooter.

If BattEQ is used with the 5 batteries, would that make it safe to leave the string charger connected all the time? I'm not suggesting that it is better to leave the charger connected, I was just wondering if BattEQ would eliminate the risk of overcharing any of the 5 batteries.

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Steve Tanner

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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

It turns out that the batteries in my scooter are "Electier" instead of "Greensaver." When I purchased my scooter, I was sure they were "Greensaver" since that is what was advertised on the Zapino webpages, their brochures, etc.

The greensaver batteries from http://www.siliconebatteriesusa.com are on backorder until July. usatracy was able to send me one of his old greensavers to carry me through until July.

So far, Zapino the company has not responded to my emails. I sent another email this morning, hopefully they don't just ignore it.

electier.jpg

andrew's picture
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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

The BattEQ should help reduce the risk of overcharging, and maybe eliminate it. We need more data from SchooterTech on Voltsrider.net, as he's doing some testing.

Still, I would not leave the string charger connected for an extended period unnecessarily. I can't really say if that would be safe or not because I have no testing data to back that up. But, hypothetically, if the voltage is just a small amount too high then batteries will be slowly killed. And that charger has no temperature compensation for float charging, so if the temperature rises, and the voltage is not adjusted then again there will be damage done to the batteries. This happens where cheap UPS systems float batteries, and they are almost guaranteed to kill the batteries prematurely.

But, I wouldn't loose sleep over it (literally). For example, if you plug it in and go to bed, then I don't think there will be too much damage until the morning provided BattEQ are used. Or if you plug it in at work, and wait until you are ready to go home to unplug it. But, if you plan to leave it for more than a couple of days, I would be sure and unplug it after charging. I would only be satisfied leaving it on if the charger had a pulse type float (where it pulses on to float when needed, then turns off), or if a high-quality professional charger with temperature compensated float charging was used. And for some reason I needed full performance out of the batteries after the scooter sits for a long time, but I have no idea why I would need that as it's easy to recondition batteries by just running a partial cycle or two after a few months of sitting.

TBH, float charging doesn't really make sense in our application. Float (or maintenance) charging maintains the batteries so that they will give full performance and capacity at any time, like for a UPS system. In fact, UPS systems are the perfect application for doing this. But, for an EV this is not usually required, and proper float charging would add considerably to the expense and waste energy. Even 40 watts is 28800 whrs/month, or $2.88/month at $.1/kwhr.

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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

This is not usual and this is not warranty anymore because they deliver warranty for six month. You bought the scooter one day after mine! and my batteries are also depleted, but there are 2 kinds of differences and behavior of cyclic using. After these points I try to help you out.

1. My scooter has ridden 6455km and the discharge current of my use is on average 50-70% depth of discharge.
2. The cables between the bolts should be very, very thick an flexible (special loudspeaker cable suits) to minimize the resistance between the first and last battery.

The SLA show on the picture is a very cheap one. Go for FIAMM, NLS or Multipower, but not this kind of accu. Or take a battery out of the same factory like FIAMM-Multipower-NLS (I can help you later out when I recive my one, out of this same plant). My costs are 5 * 12 volt 18 A NLS SLA AGM for 40 euro each ex 19% tax and 25 euro transport(weight approx 30 kilo's send by post at my adress and I build them self in). Buy a solo battery charger and load each battery one a month seperately and this madness of serial won't occur. It is a chain reaction. First the potential between the weak battery and others are low but become bigger and 8 volt... This one is dead, very dead.

Don't replace a solo battery. Replace them all and buy good one's and build them self into your scooter. A kid could do some household ;) Good looking, slow working and nothing went wrong. Even buy a seperate 12v charger and charge each battery once a month one by one. Weak ones are discovered much sooner and this times covers he hole between no warranty or warranty. If you can drive 2,5 miles (4 km) than stop driving before accidents occur. This is dangerous to other batteries.

Though I shame myself and replace batteries when my coverage wents below 30 km like now.
I can't permit such value. My least distance to drive on one load is 21 km or 13.5 miles.

Just my 2 cents and with a good willing of help, but it costs some money, but it is worth it if you follow these simple guidelines. In this case it's save you even some money.

A cancer in a early state is much more likely to heal than a terminal one. Your battery is already dead or as good as. This 2,5 mile won't get lower. One one day you can't drive anyway. This battery is in a freefall now.

About your dealer. I recognize this! I've had some issues with my one, but after calling him and staying kindly they respont perfectly and offer me good batteries against a fair price (I checked out).
Call your dealer and stay kind, but give him the oppertunity to solve this within a week or take further steps. Don't accept this kind of threatness against clients.
But I don't like judges, so in your case, buy good batteries and warranty is on the battery self, not by that dealer who could better close his doors.

My sollution is maybe the most expensive in money, but the cheapest in mind and rest and reliability.
Let him sink in his own lie.

nah, so far so good.

Same issue here (my handmade movie with empty batteries. After turning you here cut him of the power at 22 km/h.)
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ex8pa2AUGp0

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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

sgmdudley wrote:

One of the problems with the Bank Charging, Paktrkr and BatEQ is that all three of these modifications require adding wiring to the batteries. I have my scooter wired for the Bank Charger in such a way as to make the Paktrakr install easy.

Does someone sell a wiring harness to convert from string battery charging to bank battery charging? That would be the easiest way to convert. If not, is there a wiring diagram available and a parts list for molex or other connectors used?

Steve Tanner

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Steve Tanner

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Re: Zapino Battery Dead after 1100km

sgmdudley wrote:

At this point you will neeed to do the test described above. Drive the scooter till almost end of range, then measure the battery voltage. A Bad battery will be much lower then the other. If this is the case, you could just get another new battery, condition it and then install it. If you have greensavers, go to this site(They should be SP27-12)
http://www.siliconebatteriesusa.com/

I will be installing a new B&B battery shortly and I didn't think about conditioning it before installing it like you suggested. I conditioned my 5 batteries when I first bought the scooter with daily short rides that increased each day as suggested by others on this forum. Are there some good methods to condition (i.e. break-in) an individual battery that isn't installed in the scooter? I'm trying to think of something to connect to the battery to drain the battery.

Steve Tanner

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