30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

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mopedbrainy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Bocabikeguy ,It is more ,or so it seems , a reluctance of relinquishing control to the individual person .It is a COMMON LAW right to travel from point A to point B WITH MINIMAL GOVERNMENT INTRUSION , as for our daily life .The issue is that all that control on DRIVER'S LICENSES is going down the drain .So if it is a privilege to possess it SHOVE ITan e-bike would do . Wouldn't then you understood that The FEDERAL WRIT of HABEAS CORPUS has jurisdiction over STATE .MANDAMUS just force an official to perform a duty required by LAW. You had it easy in a sense .Once the FEDS sat me in the merry-go-roundmeaning being moved from State to State so my WRITS were filed from California to D.C. . Including Pennsylvania, Memphis-it took a while doing it pro se .In regards PROBABLE CAUSEis that even appointed attorneys would make other charges drop.In fact , couple of times my cuffed behind(nothing caught on me though) has ended in the back of a patrol car just have them come back half an hour latter saying " Sir your COURT ORDER is valid , we check it out and you don't have a warrant. YOU can go now.The inconvenience evens out when the sidewalk is part of my byways on a red light or heavy traffic since bike ridden on sidewalk is permitted.

ArcticFox
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Why don't you two start your own thread and stop trashing this one with your incomprehensible legal whining.

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bocabikeguy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Sorry, I did not mean to hijack the thread. It seemed to me that the legal issue is relevant to a 30mph XB-600 mod, in the context of a go-fast/go-far switch. But a protracted legal discussion clearly is not.

mopedbrainy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Apologies to zerogas and all who really contribute making the thread effective.Due respect to their efforts . Bocca al lupo.

zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Yeah, what ArcticFox said. :D

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solarcharger
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Personally, I think the toggle switch idea, combined with the relay idea, is great! A person, in theory, could switch from higher speed, more power on inclines, to the stock slower speed for those times when you might let a person ride the bike who is not familiar with its handling characteristics. Also, I agree, switching it back to "stock" mode should be a convincing gesture for any policeman who might want to question the bike's legality. I, for one, carry a copy of the Texas Electric Bike law under the seat for those occasions when I might run into a pushy cop who might want to make trouble. But, just this evening, I was riding down a city street posted at 45 mph, and was only doing the max I can get of 22 mph, when a cop passed me in the fast lane, and didn't even bat an eye in my direction! I think it all depends on the circumstances at the time and also how the laws might differ from state to state. Just my 2 cents worth!

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Yeah...thanks for getting back to the subject. However, I do want to state this. I think you guys "might" have completely misinformed folks here about Florida state laws, etc...and the fed law. Perhaps I'm wrong but I ride my xb600 here in Florida daily and I have acutally purposely stopped and talked to police officers, local and state, and they give me no problem and the info they have seems to contradict anything that was written on this thread about this subject....and quite frankly, I almost wonder if some of what was written was a "prank" since it is hard for me to believe anyone would be jailed for 11 days for riding an electric bike. I don't believe that...unless there was something else involved. OK...done.

Now, PLEASE. Can someone who owns an xb600 simply do the same test I did with those gray wires? I would so greatly appreciate it. Just ride plugged and unplugged and see if there are any changes. That would tell us if in fact this whole thing about limiting speed is true for the xb600. Thats all we need to know...regarding the effect on the standard scoot or if that could have an effect after modding. SIMPLE! Let's not get so way off base here!

Thanks AF for getting these folks back to "reality." I mean one of the posts started out with something about "shaving" the head I think on a gas motor...etc...and didn't make a bit of sense! Geeez!

Gushar

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audiophil2
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

I plugged and then unplugged the grey wire a few moments ago. I cannot feel any difference when riding.

ArcticFox
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Just another touch on Florida; I have to be in a 'mood' to sell anything needing an MCO/VIN to people in Florida. I have had so many problems with complaints of how they can't get things registered or titled in that state. I'm seriously thinking about refusing to sell to Floridians because of all the red tape involved.

But, I will sell Gushar anything he wants. :)

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AztecFemBone
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

ArcticFox wrote:

Just another touch on Florida; I have to be in a 'mood' to sell anything needing an MCO/VIN to people in Florida. I have had so many problems with complaints of how they can't get things registered or titled in that state. I'm seriously thinking about refusing to sell to Floridians because of all the red tape involved.

But, I will sell Gushar anything he wants. :)

There's a reason Florida has its own Fark tag! ;)

(this discussion has prompted me to print both California and Federal e-bike laws to carry with me when I get riding again)

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Audiophil 2....THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! Seriously! I didn't think anyone was ever going do their test on those gray wires and tell me what their result was! That confirms it for me. Whoever started this, as well as X-treme, are either talking about a different "animal" than the xb600...or, some because of a part substitution or something like that in the manufacture, are different. SO, one cannot assume that this is the case on their xb600. Thanks again. I sincerely appreciate your testing that. :-)

Now, AF...I'm thinking that the experiences here in Florida that you've had knowledge of...or those of others...are probably limited to the southern central and extreme southern part of Florida. Believe me, there's a whole lot of difference in a whole lot of things down there than in north and especially northwest Florida. My goodness, I even had no problem registering and getting a title for my "home electrified" kayak! I have to also believe that those cases you know of were again creating a "fluke" and not an accurate representation of what was going on here.

By golley YOU BETTER SELL ME WHAT I WANT!!!!!;-) I should be your number one customer!!!!:-) Considering (the TRUTH) what I've posted repeatedly on here about not only xtreme...but my experience buying through you...you ought to not only sell to me...but give me a blasted giant discount!!!!! :-) And, you really need to start telling me more info on the 700li as you can get it...cause me thinks I feel another purchase coming on!;-) However, our esteemed colleague and xtreme dealer "John" has as well offered his "selling services" even though he mainly is selling the 3000 and 3500. But for me (his well respected forum friend) he has indicated his willingness to "help" me with a purchase of other than what he sells if such need arises! ;-). Soooooo, if...and there is an "if" here...I find I can no longer fight this urge to go LI....then MAY THE BEST PRICE WIN!!!!...cause both of you guys are "top notch" in my book and I'd buy from either...although my XB600 was purchased via you since "John's" involvement was an unknown to me at that time. And of course you did provide that bit of incentive of no delivery charge to my doorstep which went a very long way with me! :-). But again, to anyone who reads this...if you buy "xtreme" these guys ARE THE WAY TO GO! and you will be glad you took my advice on this!

Gushar

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bocabikeguy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Please don't assume that it is as easy to register an electric street vehicle in Florida as it is to register an electric kayak.

Of course it is your money, and you are free to purchase electric vehicles for which you cannot get Florida tags. I have a Lectra, a Voloci, a Vectrix and a Xebra that spend all their time in my warehouse because I cannot get tags to use them on the street.

In Florida, your vehicle has to be on an approved list of vehicles to get a tag for it. If you know the clerk at your local tax assessor's office, you might be able to talk him or her into registering your vehicle by pretending it is a different make and model. But statewide they have been trying to crackdown on this practice.

My company, BocaBike, was able to get the eMax scooter on the Florida approved list. We are the registered dealer. I have been trying to get a couple of Zap products, the Z20 and the Xebra on the list for two years. If these vehicles had ICEs in them, they would get on the list very quickly.

I'm not saying you can't get tags for your X-treme. But unless your sister works at the assessor's office and is willing to bend the rules a bit to help you out, you are facing an uphill battle. Try sweet-talking the clerk. Flowers might help.

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Well...I'm checking the DMV and the statutes...since you obviously have direct experience with this. Once I'm sure what the deal is on this...and if the larger electrics (not the e/bikes cause they don't have to be registered) can't be registered because existing laws don't provide that...then I'm going to start a campaign with my local state representatives to get the state legislature to amend the laws to include the electrics. I would think that would be alot easier these days with the gas prices increasing. In any event...there should be no reason why a DOT compliant electric scooter should be any different from registering a Vespa, Honda, Yamaha gas scooter...or gas motorcycle...provided of course the necessary required paperwork is provided. And I understand like with the new 3000 and 3500 that paperwork (MCO, etc.) is provided.

Coincidentally I got stopped over the weekend by a local sheriff's deputy...while I was riding leisurely around a target shopping center parking lot. He really just wanted to know why I was riding around...instead of stopping and parking...going inside, etc. In other words was I "scoping" the place out to snatch a purse or something like that! Once I assured him I was just riding for pleasure...he then began to tell me that I must have my scoot registered. I quickly, but respectfully, explained the federal law making my scoot legal (all 50 states) without registration...anywhere a bicycle is legal. I further explained the "definition" pointing out to him that although I did not have the pedals installed or the chain...that what looked to him like a "scooter" was actually technically an "electrically assisted bike." He smiled at that point and accepted what I told him and said..."well you might want to keep the pedals on there. And just be careful and have a good day." I said, "Thanks" and rode on home.

So, that's my experiences so far...

Gushar

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Gus

smace
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

gushar wrote:

...then I'm going to start a campaign with my local state representatives to get the state legislature to amend the laws to include the electrics.

Gushar

count me in. I am in Orange county.

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Oh...for sure. I believe now is the time to get this "cleared up" if such a problem exists. Our government leaders have every incentive right now to take action so there couldn't be a better time to bring it to their attention. I'm going to press them on it in a "big" way if in fact the laws don't currently provide for it...and from what others have stated here...there's a good chance that the laws don't!

Gushar

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zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

LOL! Gus, that's a good one. I still haven't had any trouble with the police. I have an off topic question though. What do you guys do when you try to turn left at a red light and it just won't change? I usually run it, but I'm just curious if there's a way to trigger the light.

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AztecFemBone
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

zerogas wrote:

LOL! Gus, that's a good one. I still haven't had any trouble with the police. I have an off topic question though. What do you guys do when you try to turn left at a red light and it just won't change? I usually run it, but I'm just curious if there's a way to trigger the light.

Yer s'posed to walk it 'cross at the crosswalks. ;)

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Yeah...I use the crosswalk...when it's necessary. Most of where I ride are neighborhood streets...through residential areas...and there are no lights so I don't have much of this. But I have experienced it...and just done a number of things...turn right then through the median and back left through the light, let a car pull up to the light instead of being the first there, etc.

BTW, I have continued the posts on electric scooter registration in a thread titled that. There is important info there for anyone who is here in Florida and trying to get registration...not for our "ebikes" of course but for the bigger (power, etc.) scoots. Doesn't appear to me that changing any legislation, etc. is necessary. It seems pretty straight forward and looks to me like it's simply a matter of helping the DMV with determining which "motor vehicle" by definition you have....and these larger/more power electric scoots should fall under the definition "motorcycle." That should not be a problem to show...according to the definition of "motorcycle" in Florida motor vehicle laws.

Gushar

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bocabikeguy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Quote:

Doesn't appear to me that changing any legislation, etc. is necessary. It seems pretty straight forward and looks to me like it's simply a matter of helping the DMV with determining which "motor vehicle" by definition you have....and these larger/more power electric scoots should fall under the definition "motorcycle." That should not be a problem to show...according to the definition of "motorcycle" in Florida motor vehicle laws.

You are naively underestimating how difficult it is to get a title and registration for an electric "motorcycle" in Florida.

Regarding changing the laws, we have proposed the following changes to the Florida laws. 1. Extend the moped definition to include any 2 or 3 wheeled all-electric vehicle with a maximum speed of 30 mph. This would allow these vehicles to be registerred without having to get a title and would allow anyone with a valid driver's license to use them - no special motorcycle license would be required. Also, it has an effect on the motorcycle helmet / health insurance requirement. 2. Allow any all-electric vehicle with a valid US MCO and with approval by the USDOT to be registerred and/or titled in Florida without having to be added to "the list". The list appears to be nothing more than an administrative tool designed to keep electric vehicles off the road.

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Well...I've contacted the DMV directly twice and asked for information regarding this and a further clarification. I've posted a portion of what they have wrote me. There's more but I did not want to post all of it here. Anyway, the information I have been provided supports every statement I have made here. Ah! Perhaps they have left something out...which is quite possible. That doesn't mean I am being naive here. Perhaps I simply have not been provided the necessary, complete, information as I have specifically requested! But alas! I have sent much additonal information and questions relating to statements you and others have made and asked if in fact these statements are correctly reflecting the laws and the current situation.

I'm no expert here and I have not proposed to be one. However, I CAN ask specific questions and draw reasonable conclusions from information provided. What I have so far is contradictory information coming from yourself and at least one other person here...and the Florida DMV. So I'm in the process of seeing if I can get to the bottom of all of it.

However, I don't believe that there is some "conspiracy" to keep electric vehicles off the roads of Florida. I don't believe that it's a "them" against "us" issue. I rather believe that if there are problems in the laws that exist as you have indicated...with these lists, etc....that perhaps some people might not have approached this in the "right" manner, and it simply has not been an issue that alot of people have been concerned about. I'd rather leave the "political conspiracy" theories to the movie producers and suspense novelists. Stay tuned....

Gushar

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zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Hello all,
I was getting ready to add a 6th battery in parallel with the 5th on my xb 600 because the extra batteries I bought were 12ah whereas the stock pack has 20 ah batteries and I want to keep the 20ish mile range so I don't have to charge at work. The thing is, I can't leave well enough alone. :) We all know that the 72v controller didn't make the motor happy when I tried the 72v mod, so I went back to 60v and the old controller. This adventure in battery wiring had me thinking.... I wonder what the stock controller with 72v would do? Well, the answer is 35mph!!! LMAO! I have posted videos on youtube of 35mph on my speedo at 72v. I only did this for shiggles and I went back to 60v and put the 6th battery in parallel, because I really don't want to fry my controller. I did ride at 72v for a while and even took my daughter for a spin. It was really fun. Check out this link..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2w8Mo3lh2Q
Oh, one more thing. If I have 2 batteries wired parallel, can I charge both with one charger, or do I need to get another charger for the 6th battery?
Have fun and keep modding guys.
Warren

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zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Nevermind that question. They charged wired together.

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bocabikeguy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Yes, of course you can charge them in parallel. Just disconnect them every once in a while and check to see how balanced they remain.

How did the bike ride at 35mph? Was it a stable, controlled ride? Any steering vibrations or suspension issues? My eMax was supposedly made to go 35mph, but at that speed the steering shook like an old washing machine - the bike was extremely hard to handle. The X-treme seems to be better built and better balanced.

Was that 35mph based on the speedometer, or checked by GPS? Have you ever compared your speedometer to GPS output?

If you really want to go 72v, you might check the FET's in the controller. It is likely that with a simple change to 100v FET's, and with doing something (relay trick?) about the DC-DC converter, you can go to 72v without damage. Do check the heat of the hub motor, though - if it is too hot to keep your finger on, you have a problem.

gushar
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Bocabikeguy...

Saw you were commenting today and just wanted to tell you in case you didn't see my post, that I am checking info about registration, etc. with the source of the fed legislation and with the state of Florida.

Just didn't want you to think that I didn't believe anything you'd written. Obviously as a dealer you've had much more experience on this than myself. I thought I better "back up" and not make any conclusions from my own limited investigations. Therefore, I am hoping I get replies as promised from the offices I contacted. I did get a reply back from an initial inquiry I had made to the Florida Highway Patrol. But I simply asked them about registering an electric scooter (not ebike) that was comparable to a small motorcyle or gasoline scooter like Honda, Vespa, etc. The reply I got back today simply stated.."yes, you have to register it. Contact your local DMV office."

Anyway, I do intend to get to the bottom of this...and hey if the laws need changing here in Florida...I'll be the first to start asking for it! Folks, excuse my dropping this post in here, sort of off-topic...!

Gushar

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bocabikeguy
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Quote:

Contact your local DMV office.

This is good first advice no matter where you are if you want to check if it is legal to use your electric bicycle / scooter / motorcycle on the street.

In Florida, you will have to get a title and registration from your local tax assessor's office. The computer system they use now has a "drop-down list" for manufacturer and a "drop-down list" for the model number. They used to be able to type in to override the list selections, but it is my understanding that they cannot override the manufacturer and model number any more. So, if your bike is not on the list, either they have to "pretend" it is a different manufacturer and/or model, or you won't get tags. In recent years, they have been getting very strict about not issuing title or tags for any vehicle not on the list.

I posted earlier about the process a manufaturer must go through to get on the list.

The DMV might not be familiar with what is required at the tax assessor's office to enter your registration into their computers. They might also just tell you that, "yes, you have to register it."

It is my understanding that the computer system used at the tax assessor's office to do registrations is under the control of the Florida Department of State. This is the department that Katherine Harris used to run, so you know how political it is. From what I have seen, the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) is very pro-EV and the DMV (actually DHSMV) is closely tied to FDOT. But the tax assessor's office is the hurdle here, and it is a tough nut to crack.

zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Bocabikeguy,
The xb 600 handled smooth as silk at 35mph, otherwise I couldn't have driven with one hand and held my cellphone to video with the other. :D I thought about doing the FET swap and running 72v, but I still need a higher watt motor to go more than 35mph, so I'm now talking with usatracy about a 3500 watt motor/controller/swing arm swap. :D :D EV's are so much fun! As for using the 5th and 6th 12ah batteries, I rode my 6-8 miles to work and checked the voltage with my voltmeter at the charger plug. 64v remained after my trip to work, so the parallel 5th and 6th set up is working out. After I rode home I checked them again.... 62.6v remaining. Wow! The 5th battery alone would drain way more than the pack before, but now everything is back in check. The weight of the 6th battery did cost me 1 mph so top speed is now in the 27-28 mph range. That's still good though, because now I don't have to sneak and charge at work. :) All in all, I'm very happy with this set up. Now if I can just get that 3500 watt motor. If anyone is interested in the 3500 watt kit it's at www.novascooters.com and it's called the 3500 commuter kit. I'll let you guys know if I get it and get it installed, and also what "kinks" it entails.
-Warren

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zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

One more thing, after riding 72v for 15 or 20 minutes I did feel the motor. It was barely warm to the touch. These little 600 watt motors can take some abuse. :D

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hyperob
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Hey Zerogas,

Its good to hear you are not seeing any adverse effects at 72. It makes my going to 60 like old hat and more reassuring that the bike wont blow up. Good luck on the 3500 mod. I look forward to hearing all about it.

Cheers.

zerogas
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Rob,
I didn't stay at 72v. I was just messing around. I'm using the 6th battery in parallel with the 5th battery to acheive a 5th 24ah battery(even though it's 2 batteries). I was searching the net and saw this.. http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=283 . It looks like Nimh may be more cost effective than LiFePo4 batteries.

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hyperob
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Re: 30 Mph x-treme xb 600 60v modification instructions

Oh yeah, I knew you said it was for shiggles but I am glad the bike didn't fry on you. Its good to see the dc/dc converter and the controller were able to take it even for a short time.

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