Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

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Tireiron55
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I'm tired of my 1000w motor on my Stealth. It doesn't have the speed I want or the power. I'm running 60v through it, and it's not enough. Basicly, I want a scooter I can ride on the roads and hit over 30mph.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

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andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I think your best bet would be this motor for the power in a small package:
hobbycity.com - HXT 80-100-B 130Kv Brushless Outrunner

I have the similar 180 rpm/v one. Here are some comments I posted to the electric motorcycle discussion list:

Quote:

The main thing I noticed after purchasing the 180v/rpm motor is that the windings are not varnished. The motors are probably only designed for a few hundred hours of use if that. If planning to use it, I would first remove the can and varnish the windings. Also, the windings didn't pass a 100v megger test. They did pass a 2,000k ohm DC resistance test with a DVM though. The phase to phase resistance was very low at 12.5 mohms.

There are no hall sensors. The motors need a special controller to take EMF feedback from the windings themselves to sense position. Hence, it may take some extra hall sensors to get these to work with a Kelly controller for example.

They would make one heck of a powerplant for something like a Schwinn scooter, or even a larger road scooter like an Oxygen Lepton. They wouldn't be too bad for a dirt bike if the speed was kept slow enough.

I think you would be pretty much stuck using an RC controller for it to use the EMF feedback for position sensing. Matt Shumaker tells how to do this on his website: E-Cumbent

You probably wouldn't need any special reduction, just single stage if you fit the largest sprocket you can possibly fit on the wheel, and the smallest one on the motor. If you read any of Deafscooter's scooter builds, you would be on par with one of those in terms of power.

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

BTW, if using the motor I linked, make sure and use the "back" end, or opposite end of the propeller mount. This is because this motor was designed to be an outrunner, and the whole outer can rotates with the shaft. The only part that doesn't rotate is the back part of the motor fixed to the mounting adapter on the pic, which is fixed to the stator. So you need to use the shaft out that end to mount the sprocket to. This will be much easier on the bearings.

Jeffkay
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Andrew, I have been watching this motor. Do you think if two or more were locked by timing belt that one set of hall sensors could get it happy with a Kelly?
Jeff K. "Deep Cycle" project

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I'm not sure due to the small amount of give in the timing belt. These motors have a lot of poles. I don't remember how many, but like 12 or something. Each step is a small movement, so I would be worried about getting the timing real close.

The motors could be coupled with a solid coupling due to having a shaft on both ends. I think it's a 12 mm shaft, but I'm not sure on that. Assuming it is then McMaster-Carr Item: 2469K4 Clamp on Shaft Coupling would work, and you wouldn't even need to cut a keyway. Doing that might work better when using the same position sensing for both.

Or you could just get two controllers, and separate hall sensors for each, or use two RC controllers which take EMF feedback. They would run fine that way. Just like coupling two brushed motors which each have separate position sensing and phase switching built into the commutators.

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I had a couple more thoughts...

Maybe a chain could be used to couple them since it has less give?

Also, using two controllers with separate position sensing and switching may not be such a great idea. If they don't end up sharing the load well, then you'd need to adjust the timing on one or both to balance them, and it may not be easy to do this. I don't know if the RC controllers can do that? If using hall sensors, then you could shift the position of the hall sensors slightly and that would work. Or, maybe the Kelly brushless controllers can do timing adjustments?

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I'm not ready for a brushless motor yet. I'm still toying with brushed motors for now. I have to make sure I master the brush motor before I go to the brushless, and then A/C motors. Besides that, I just don't have the money for brushless motors and controllers. I don't trust them either. Too many things I don't know about yet.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Quote:

I don't trust them either. Too many things I don't know about yet.

Yea I feel kind of the same way. But, the power is drawing me to them }:) . It's just unreal.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I think I'm going to settle on the 60v or 72v pack for the Stealth. I'll go brushless on a full size scooter later. I want to hit 50mph.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I have no choice but to get a new motor now. Mine blew up today going down a hill. I thought it would have a better chance of blowing up hill, but it didn't. I was going about 30-35mph and the wheel locked up on me. Transmission is fine and I can't really tell what's wrong with the motor, but it smoked and it's not working anymore. I have 2 yk42-4 controllers to get rid of and the transmission off the Stealth. I'm thinking brushless now, even though I can't figure the brushed motor out the way I want to. I need something to get me around. But I need something reliable and cheap enough. With my scooter down, and I'm stuck at home. It's depressing.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Too bad it is not an electric bike then you could remove the extra weight and still ride it around.

Grandpa Chas S.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I've got a bike I'm riding now. It was in my shed. I don't like the e-bikes, the scooters look so much cooler.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Is there a motor between the 1000w Stealth motor and the Etek? I'm not sure I want to bump up to and Etek just yet. That's more money than I have to spend. And I don't have a good machine shop to do the work. I could do it myself, but it would be a hack job, I think.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

If your set on staying with a brushed motor, and want a lot more than what a 1000w stealth can do (or the 1000w TNC scooter motors), the following might work:

robotmarketplace.com - NPC Motor NPC-4200
robotmarketplace.com - Magmotor C40-300

Unfortunately those are designed to run on a lower voltage then your system is set up for, and they cost around $300.

There's the Met motors selling on ebay and surplus now like here:
ebay - Met motor but it weighs 30 lbs.

A suitable option may be to pair up a couple of the TNC motors, or 1000w stealth motors but I can't find a source for just the 1000w motors. thesuperkids.com sells the 1000w motor paired with a controller and maybe they could sell just the motors.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

If I dropped voltage I would still have more power? That sounds like a great idea to me. Could any of the motors handle 48v? I would like to use my controller if I can. I guess I could go back to the stock 36v Stealth controller, but that thing is really tame. Thanks for the help, I'm excited again.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

andrew
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Yes you would have more power at a lower voltage because these motors can handle a lot more current.

I don't know how well the motors would handle 48v. Might contact robotmarketplace.com to see if they have any advice. Also maybe npcrobotics.com (for the NPC motor). The issue I find is that the commutator is the limiting factor in a brushed motor for max voltage. Above a certain voltage there is a lot of arcing at the commutator and it gets very hot while not carrying the load very well. Often the commutator is what will melt in a motor when people push them to the limit to race and go way over voltage. Also the brushes will wear faster at higher voltage.

Another issue is the gearing. At higher voltage you would need a higher reduction, or you would just get a faster top speed that you may not want or take advantage of. With higher gearing you could convert this speed into torque for better power where you want it.

Anyway, running them at 36v max is not a problem with your controller. You can have 48v or 60v in, as long as you limit the max motor voltage by just limiting the throttle. Think of your controller as a variable DC-DC converter. I don't know how to do this with a hall effect throttle other than just not pulling the throttle as far back. This might be somewhat of a pain though to manually do. Maybe a resistor can be added in series with the throttle circuit to limit the max throttle control voltage? Or maybe you can just use a 5-0k ohm pot if the controller supplies a reference voltage. You would limit it so the max motor voltage is 36v by measuring the motor voltage with a digital multimeter.

The only issue you might have with your controller is the max current. These motors might really be a bit much for it. But if the mosfets blow, you can always replace them.

P.S. I would go with the NPC motor due to having a large heatsink. It can probably handle more continuous current, just make sure to face mount it because Ivan (search the forum) had the bracket fail in his bike. Okay I need to stop typing now I'm tired and need sleep if you can't tell...

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Wow, that sounds great. But my batteries only put out 150amps for 5 seconds, I think. I would get another controller and just sell my 2 YK42-4's. One is heavy modified to run up to 200v on a motorcycle with an etek. That one might handle, but I don't know if the motor can handle that. And I don't know if my batteries can handle the amps drawn.

I'm scared, and I'm afraid I might just get another 1000w. I'm going to set up a freewheel though. Otherwise I'll just blow it up. I can't believe I blew it up going too fast down hill. I must have been going 35mph. It just locked up on me. Anyone have any ideas on how I could repair it, or even what went wrong? I would rather keep this motor and set up the freewheel. No joke, I live on $5k to $6k a year including my tuition. Money is really tight, and that's why I need this thing to work. Otherwise I'm walking, and I live 7 miles from campus.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

e-doggies
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

You can get a 36V 1000W Currie motor here: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36voltmotors.html
for $110. Motor and gearbox for $130. Entire rear wheel assembly with gearbox and motor for $170.

The motor alone comes with a 15T roller clutch. For another $60, you could purchase an entire rear wheel/tire assembly with disk brake and 90T sprocket. You would need some #25 chain and a way to mount the motor.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

That sounds like what I've been wanting to do. I think I'm going to get a bigger motor if I have to make custom mounts though. I think I still trust that motor, just not at fast downhill speeds.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

Tireiron55
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

Does anyone know a place were I can get the rear assimbly from a Stealth that uses a chain drive? I would like bolt this system up for ease of use. I don't have a machine shop or the tools I need to complete my project the way I wanted to. My 60v Stealth was awesome. It was perfect except for the direct drive. I'm worried about getting everything strait if I try to use the tools I have. I'll throw chains like crazy. I'm still set on at least 30mph.

btw, I did get another Stealth that has a 48v 15ah Lifepo4 pack with another yk42-4 stock controller. It's great. Not fast enough though. I'm getting a 36v 20ah pack for my girlfriend to run on her stock Stealth 1000.

Link to 60v Stealth -> http://youtube.com/watch?v=wZ3uKabM8eg
I'm the one riding it.

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I bent my wheel, broke my trans, and blew my motor. Now I cry a lot.

ruprek
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Re: Scooter/Motorcycle Motor

I believe I have a rear assembly for a chain stealth. But it came off an I-Zip 1000. I don't know if your still interested in a go between an Etek and a 1000 curry motor. But if you are, I have a 1500 watt brushless motor from
Powerpackmotors. That motor is wicked! I couldn't be happier with it. I have hit 39 mph(cops radar gun)on it and have run from 55 up to a 100 amps on it and it has never overheated. By the way, I live in Arizona. I don't know if Tim has anymore of these motors, but if he does- buy it yesterday. I'm into pushing the limits, and I have pushed this motor in the desert heat as far as my 4 22ah's batteries would go.I'm looking to upgrade the controller as I was modifying the 55 amp controllers past their capabilities and smoking them. Let me know on the chain driven stealth if your interested.But the 1500 will make you dream like a little kid again.

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