My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

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strawhistle
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The DMV said there is nothing i can do !!! Mountain Chen screwed Me !!! The Vin No. is fake and green motors is not the manufacturer !!! I have no Bill of sale !!! My wife had said it was a scam but I try to believe in the good of people , $2600 gone maybe I can part the byke out and get some of my money back or get a triump or honda and make a home built , but dmv says I can't use the frame , any one live in a state where they do not need a vin to license this byke ????
I am open to all sugestions I think i will stop as depression is setting in !!!!

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PJD
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Fake VIN??? This is a serious violation of the US law and probably some international conventions as well. Not to mention being outright fraud. Does green motors have a US address?

You need to call a lawyer to at least find out what your options are.

For civil claims you should be able to find one who will require no fees - just a cut of the settlement.

mrladderman
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

will take 250.00 for the batteries?

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xm-3000

mech701
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Are you talking about GreenEMotors? If so, why is this in the XM category or referencing Mountain Chen?

-Les

davem
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

I know it feels bad right now but something is NOT adding up. He is in the middle of a big product roll-out - so even if Mountain Chen was a bad guy, why would he INTENTIONALLY risk all the other sales and BIG money just to make a little money.

I don't doubt what you say but I don't think the conclusion is necessarily right. If you bought a "one of a kind" then I don't think there is anyway he COULD have gotten a VIN. But that is also US law, that distinction might be lost in China.

So my question is - did he tell you he DID have an approved US VIN?

I also had the opportunity to save some money and buy direct from Mountain and turned it down. Not because I did not trust him but because I wanted a US firm with knowledge of US law in-between us.

Can you tell us more about what you got?

rossasaurus
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

What state are you in?

What Make & Model?

URL for where you bought it?
Or address?

R

dogman
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Ouch! Maybe you can still ebay it to a more accomodating state. Even parting it out might work.

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strawhistle
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

I live in Wisconsin , Mountain chen origenaly said this bike was a VK2008 or Pallidan ? 20cells and goes 96 KMh 3500W lifepo4 and He told me it could be lisenced in the USA . He sent me a certificate of origin for a vehicle listing Green elec-motor inc as distributor and signed by Mountain chen.. green elec - motors are not who i bought it from and the vin no. is not authentic acording to my DMV also I see the series or model is ERATO-04 on the certificate ? what is up ????

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jdh2550_1
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

strawhistle,

I'm sorry this happened to you. I was worried that it might not go well but I had absolutely no way of knowing how it would play out for sure. Mountain Chen made a direct sale to you. It's nothing to do with X-Treme (or any other importer). I certainly didn't know that you'd get an invalid VIN. I thought there was a chance that single sales like this might work out in some form. Unfortunately, apparently not.

AFAIK, there's no way to do a direct import (or domestically, for that matter) of a bike from a manufacturer straight to a consumer. A bike (anything with a VIN) has to be sold via a dealer (manufacturer to dealer and then dealer to customer). This is why Alpha Products International (API) spent time and effort setting themselves up as manufacturer of record for the XM-3000 (folks will note that API is listed on the MCO of the XM-3000). Their bikes are sold to dealers, and then by dealers to consumers. I'm a commissioned rep for a dealer. This is the same for the XM-3500Li. API issues the VINs for the bikes, and they're valid. This is why I try and carefully differentiate between the XM-3500Li and bikes built by the same factory - THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

None of that helps you out.

However, if you're willing to wait and willing to work with me then I will buy the bike for parts (as you note it can't be used on the road) and I will also supply you with an equivalent bike. My plan is to provide you this bike early next year as part of the roll out of rEVolution Electric Vehicles own brand of bikes. Those plans aren't finalized yet - so if you'd rather sell it before then please feel free. But if you want to wait I'll get you the best price I can on an equivalent bike (using your existing bike as a trade). Contact me if you're interested.

If you want me to I'll also contact the owner of API / X-Treme and see if he will help you out in anyway. He will have the opportunity to help you before I can, however you must realize that he has no real reason to. This would just be a way to help.

Sorry dude. It sucks. But we're not all villains.

Again, contact me if you're interested - and good luck. Take a deep breath. Stay calm and figure out how best to proceed.

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

strawhistle
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

John thank you for that offer !! I will contact you presonal to maybe set up somthing My talking about this is in on way an effort to slam you or extreme !!! I just want to warn others and I say agin "If I knew about V is for voltage and the dealers on this sight before I had layed my mony down I would have Gladly payed the little extra for the support and security you provide !!! At 60 somthing I am still learning thank all of you for being understanding MiKeLLy

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ArcticFox
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

I was going to mention that this will be a problem. Just like it will be, buying from some guy who just pops in here saying he has five of these in stock. If you intend to sneak past Authorized dealers in hopes of saving money, you will get screwed.

It's not that Chen screwed you, you screwed yourself. There is a reason why we as dealers have to go through so much to become dealers. There's a reason why orders need to stay in a certain economic flow.

.

Customers: Check to make items are legal in their locale before purchasing. Buy from dealers/dropshippers. Easy enough.

Dealers/Dropshippers: spend their own money for advertising the products, taking orders, providing payment processing (in my case also providing currency exchanges and information with Canada and Mexico), [are suppose to] help with customer service (some companies, like X-Treme, want to handle it themselves with no dealer input), check inventories, try to provide correct information and updated specs of items, make sure all this gets done to keep the customer's experience as smooth as possible.

Distributors/Importers: are there to investigate local rules and regulations, keep track of certifications and each item's VIN (if applicable), try to be up to date with DOT/VIN/MCO/DMV regulations in each state, gather information from dealers and customer service people as to any anomalies with laws pertaining to their products, take in payments, take care of import fees/laws/restrictions/guidelines, set up and keep in contact with exporters, communicate (usually in person) with exporters and make sure quality and attention to detail is adhered to, purchase items from exporters and help set up shipping to and fro. In some situations the importer is separate from the distributor, other companies may be able to combine the two and even act as dealer as well.

Exporters/Manufacturers: (like Mujin Chen) have their own way of doing things depending on their local laws and customs. Are NOT there to sell direct to the public of another country (yet, can and do at the customers' own expense). Do NOT investigate laws/rules/regulations of other countries past customs. Are not responsible in calling the West New York Town DMV in New Jersey to see if the VIN will be accepted or passed through by little Ms. Debbie behind the desk. Are not going to even think about checking with any of the 85'000 US cities to ask if importing their product is legal, never mind any other place in the world. That's the customers' responsibility.

.

Also, from my understanding, buying a brand new (whatever) from another country, that requires a MCO before registering in the customers' own country WILL require the IMPORTER to assign that first documentation to a DISTRIBUTOR before handing it to a customer. This is Federal Law. I doubt you will get this required paperwork from some 'guy' who pops in here saying he has several for sale, nor will you get it from someone halfway around the planet.

Work around this system at your own risk. In this situation, I couldn't even resell yours in Mexico without a lot of red taped paperwork and bribes. Er... donations. :)

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PJD
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

strawwhistle,

Can you provide the actual VIN? Did it have the standard 17 digits? I'm curious if it is nonsensical VIN or one lifted from an actual manufacturer.

Thanks,

Paul D.

Mountain chen
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Joined: 09/05/2007
Points: 318
Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Mike Kelly,pls calm down....Pls send the scooter to somewhere if you don't like it..... and I will refund you 2600 dollars. I will inform you address later.

We are really not good at retail scooter in USA,which might bring big trouble in law.

Any individual buyer,pls go to XTREME.don't buy from us directly....

strawhistle wrote:

The DMV said there is nothing i can do !!! Mountain Chen screwed Me !!! The Vin No. is fake and green motors is not the manufacturer !!! I have no Bill of sale !!! My wife had said it was a scam but I try to believe in the good of people , $2600 gone maybe I can part the byke out and get some of my money back or get a triump or honda and make a home built , but dmv says I can't use the frame , any one live in a state where they do not need a vin to license this byke ????
I am open to all sugestions I think i will stop as depression is setting in !!!!
------------
thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

Enviroguy
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Joined: 08/08/2008
Points: 8
Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

If Extreme is able to get these things registered, then there must be some pathway for you as well..although it may take a lot of work. It would be interesting to hear from other individuals who have bought direct and successfully registered their vehicle.

nasukaren
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Connecticut doesn't require motor scooters and mopeds to be registered, so you could sell it to someone here.....

Karen

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jdh2550_1
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Karen, but what is Conneticut's definition of a motor scooter? I'm not sure this bike would qualify.

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Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

Enviroguy
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

In many states if the scooter goes over 25 mph it must be licensed. How do 'do-it-yourselfers' do it? Seems like this licensing thing could be another good forum topic to cover and compile/centralize detailed information for each state.

jdh2550_1
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Enviroguy,

Now that the bike has been stamped with a VIN and the DOT/DMV hasn't accepted that VIN it's "game over" as far as registering that bike is concerned. You can't just change the VIN. If a manufacturer of record were to take that bike and substantially re-work it so that it matched the spec of an existing model they sell, then they might be able to assign a new VIN. I'm not sure - but I think that would be the only way to get this bike on the road.

API get's their bikes registered because they issue a VIN and has had that VIN pre-approved by DOT. There's next to no chance API would be interested in certifying this bike and working on it to allow them to attach their VIN. It would cost them more than the bike is worth.

Really, the only economically viable approach is selling this bike for parts. My offer still stands (and Mike and I have been in touch) - I will likely buy this bike for parts and Mike can use that as deposit on a new bike (I'll also likely give him a discount on the new bike).

I'm not saying any of this is a perfect system - but it's the system that exists and the system which we must follow.

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

dogman
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Or sell it to someone with a large private property. Some country club real estate developments are that way, just so they can drive carts around all they want, and keep anybody they want out. Or a large factory or industrial property could use it to get a supervisor around.

Or register something else, and switch the plates and take your chances. I got away with that for a year in my youth, with a homemade registration sticker on a motorcycle plate.

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Enviroguy
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

Thx John..understand..how would a guy who built his own bike (single unit) do it? would they go through the process you describe by applying for a new vin for a single unit?

dogman
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Re: My Wife Was Right and I am Pissed

If it is a moped, under 30 mph, you don't need a vin in NM.

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Zapdos
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Joined: 07/01/2008
Points: 27
Registering?

I live in Washington state and the way I interpret the law is that because the wheels are only 10" it can be considered a motorized foot scooter and no license would be required.

When I spoke with the DMV they indicated that they were now going to go by speed of the bike instead of cc's. Since the XM-3000 has a govenor that can limit spd to about 25 mhp I see no reason to license this. Plus I believe my 12 year old son can legally drive it. Please let me know if you think I wrong...

This was taken from the licensing site:

http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/driverguide.pdf

Motorized Foot Scooters
A MFS must have handlebars, two ten-inch or smaller
wheels, and a gas or electric motor. No insurance and
vehicle or driver license is required, but it must have state
patrol-approved reflectors to be driven at night.

strawhistle
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Points: 340
Re: Registering?

Zapdos , The fly in your ides is,,, The 3500li has 13" wheel rims !!

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Zapdos
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Re: Registering?

Oops, sorry I thought we were talking about the XM-3000

kringle777
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Re: Registering?

I originally ran into problems when I took my XM-2000 to the DMV to be registered (as a motorcycle, since it goes above 40 MPH) here in CA. They didn't have a problem with the VIN tag as such, but did have a problem that there weren't TWO VIN tags to be verified. Since I only had one VIN tag, I had to take the scooter back home.

So, I just registered in the mail as a moped and sent them a one-time fee of $17. They promptly sent me a license plate.

I've never been stopped by (or even glanced at) by a cop. If they ever do stop me, I'll tell them that it goes up to 30 MPH only. Most of the time I'm going in that range anyway.

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RedKing73
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Joined: 07/20/2007
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Re: FAke VINS & My Wife Was Right and I am angry

Oh dear oh dear, this is what got Mountain into so much hot water in UK, no? Dodgy VINS. Those containers had to be re-exported. Not pretty.

Admittedly, USA is very complicated for a manufacturer to sell directly but that's totally off-issue here. An elaborate sales channel is preferable of course, but is not necessary in order to ensure a bike is legal and will pass. An individual should be able to pass any machine that is passable, once they have imported the machine at fair value and not as a sample and therefore as a tax dodge.

The issue of VINs has been raised as far back as 2005 and shouldn't matter whether the bikes are going to USA, Madagascar, Timbuktu or UK. They should be correct and should match their paperwork!!

Anyway, the channels are there. The guys in them (in this thread) are first rate and long-time champions of Visfor 'Victory'..... ! Victory some day, if the technology and sales channels iron out!

Keep on wheelin buddies. They're all great machines, some better than others of course but hey, we're living in pioneer days!

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