Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

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stalcottsmith's picture
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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

eped,

I am following along with what you did since it looks so good. The tail lights and headlamps should be straightforward (though as you say, a pain up front) but do you have any tips on purchasing/building the CREE LED solutions for the running light and the instrument panel lighting? I have not put together LED's -- do they need chips or extra stuff or is it just wire-for-wire replacement? How did the mounting go? Where did your source your white LEDs online?

Much Appreciated,

Steven

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Just a note - but I find it is better to use red LEDs for tail lights. The white LEDs will cause the red reflector to have a purple hue to it and the red LEDs through the red reflector seem to be brighter. I also use the amber LEDs for the side running lights.

Grandpa Chas S.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

I have started a led project for my e-bike and my mountain bike. For my e-bike, I purchased 2 drop in Cree XR-E R2 modules from deal extreme. These are some of the BRIGHTEST leds available. For my mountain bike I purchased a SSC P7 c-bin that emits a jaw-dropping 900 lumens! It is the brightest single led on the market. Car headlights are about 1000 lumens and draw 55 watts. The p7 emits 900 lumens and only draw 12 watts. The leds can be found very cheap at deal extreme.

The XR-E R2 module is only about $10 and comes with a regulator module that will accept voltage from 3.7~18V.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Another find, apparently new to the market: 10 watt, 800 lumen 'off road' LED lights:
Vision X Solstice Solo S1100

It looks like you could easily mount a pair of these to the front forks. A pair would consume only 20 watts, but together they are as bright as a full-strength car headlight bulb. They have different beam patterns, but I think the 'euro' is a slightly wider pattern that would work well to supplement a weak headlight. I've found them for $118 each, which isn't cheap, but they may be worth it. I may have to give these a try.

Interestingly, they accept 9-50v power, so you could attach them directly to the main battery of a 48v bike, bypassing the DC/DC.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

I just replaced my tailight with a 28 LED tower and when I squeeze the brake it goes out instead of getting brighter. Any ideas? It is set up for brake light.

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2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Iccarus wrote:

I just replaced my taillight with a 28 LED tower and when I squeeze the brake it goes out instead of getting brighter. Any ideas? It is set up for brake light.

Hey Iccarus - I had the same problem and it turned out the wiring to the socket was wrong (ground, tail, and brake wires swapped around). I don't remember exactly what was messed up, but do this;

1) With the bike off, ohm out the wires to ground to see which one is ground.
2) Once you have this wire, then turn on the tail light and measure the voltage to the other two to see which one is on or has 12V (and this is then tail-light).
3) Do the same for brake (it should be the remaining wire).
4) Then move the wires so they are connected to the right terminals. I actually soldered the ground wire to the socket base since it was just wrapped around the spring and resoldered the wires to the inner contacts.

It just happens to be a fluke that the halogen works with this messed up wiring but the LED bulbs will not. Good luck!

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Even with the correct wiring, the less expensive, non-regulated 1157-type (two-input) tower LEDs will not work properly alongside a parallel-wired regular bulb (if you have that). On a bike like the older 3500 (with only one B/T bulb), the LED may appear to work correctly when not moving but turning on the tail light may stop the motor (when the motor-off circuit is vonnected to the brake lights).

With the brake only on the LEDs may be dim, and with only the tail-light on the LEDs might go out. However with both B & T on, the LEDs should light up fully, I think.

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XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Thanks Gary, I'll try that. On the other 3500 I did this to, It worked fine the first time. I think you're right because I noticed if I touched just one nub and the rim of the light I could get the bright mode to light up. I also am putting RED LEDS in the other two taillight housings on the sides like EPED above.(thanks eped for the tips)

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2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

eped wrote:

Hey Iccarus - I had the same problem and it turned out the wiring to the socket was wrong (ground, tail, and brake wires swapped around)

That was it. I swapped them and now I have tail & brake lights in all three panels. I also discovered while trying to figure out why my turn signals don't work that there are two wires spliced together in the front comartment that prevent the on off switch for the lights from working. If you want to be able to turn off your headlights just separate these two (yellow & olive w/white stripe)wires and the switch will work properly. They are wrapped with electical tape (which caught my attention)so they are easy to spot.

Bill-

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2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

A while ago a mounted a 2x35W HID-kit on my 3500, now that´s an improvement!
The newer models should be even better since they have a larger reflectors.
To stop the DC/DC from breaking when you turn the lights on, I put a small SLA-battery to handle the start-up current.

HID.jpg

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Nice lights.
What kit, from where, and what cost?

Do you know the current startup surge and steady state?

How is the heat production in the plastic enclosure?

Thanks for the picture!

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XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

I think you can find these H4 kits almost everywhere, I bought it on the swedish ebay for around 100USD, they are equipped with a magnetic switch for high-low beam.
I haven´t measured any currents, but I´ve read about others measuring about 20A start-up current for a couple of seconds.
Actually HID lights produces less heat than normal bulbs, so that is not an issue.
My DC/DC is not the original one, it´s a bigger model that comes on the newer models of the 3500.
I have also put LEDs all around the bike, so the 70W headlights shouldn´t be a problem.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Well, it seems like it wasn´t such a good idea with the HID lights, first, the extremely powerful light is not concentrated enough by the small reflectors, blinding others.
Secondly, the DC-DC broke yesterday even though I have the new, larger, more powerful one and an extra battery.
Strangely enough none of the fuses broke before the DC-DC...

I will propably change back to the standard bulbs and use the HIDs in one of my cars instead..

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Gordon- Hey guy I really like what you did with your lighting. Could you give me the exact led lights you got. That is one long page and I did not see a bulb that matches your visuals. Also are you satisfied with your headlight? Can anybody recommend any other bright led headlight?

Here is the latest on the 6kw 72volt--It is not happening, I emailed john for his advice but the motor just seems defective. So I have all new electronics KBL 12221H controller--a new DC/DC converter and the old 3500watt motor. But this bike really goes with the 24 cells, I am impressed. I have a hot shot motorcycle shop that just moved in next door to my studio and they took it out for a spin and they really enjoyed it but it really felt "strange" to them == quiet. For the heck of it they put my bike on their Dynometer, I have attached the results, well it is all there and that is with 24 cells and the controller at 70% best....Mikie

dyno jet.jpg

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

The tail light LED lamps are on this page link http://autolumination.com/1156_1157.htm, the 2nd and third items down from the top. Eagle Eye Tower 11 super-power wide angle high flux LEDs 1157 Red. SMT Tower 48 high powered wide angle SMT LEDs 1157 Red. They do not have part numbers per the norm. The headlights are a little better but 2 35 watt lamps can only do so much. My Kawasaki Versys runs 2 65 watt lamps and that is bright enough.

Still having a load of fun with the R Martin EVD on 23 cells. It is getting up into the 90s now and I have not been having any cut out or heat issues, so I am going to continue with the 23 cells. I am still getting a consistent 48 miles per charge with a little left over. It is nice to have a scoot that can keep up with traffic and actually pull away at the lights.

Gordon

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Hey Mikie good to hear you got your scoot going again. Thanks for the tip on the 6kw motor. I was thinking of getting one but I think I'll wait. You should hook up regen braking you'll love it. Even if it doesn't extend your range ALOT it is much nicer braking with finger tip control. All you need is a thumb throttle(0-5v analog) and a relay from an auto parts store. Richard B posted a cheaper way to do it than using a relay but I can't help you with that. If you're interested I'll post the procedure, it's not to hard. I like how I have mine mounted because you can have both brakes ready to go and just work the regen with your left index finger. See activating regen thread

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2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

The third item (48 tower) apparently has a special "patented" handling of power that makes it more suitable for systems that have a motor-cutoff attached to the brake lights. I was told that the bulbs with the big round "patented" icon were the ones to buy.

I do not know if the second-down item ("11 Super") is suitable or not.

The problem was, the "other" bulbs (the biggest "stacks" further down, that I bought) would turn the motor off whenever the headlights were on. Voltage fed to the tail light produces some current through the LEDs, but also produces some voltage OUT on the "un-energized" brake light input. That voltage was enough to trigger the "motor-cutoff" circuit into the controller on my 5000Li.

Apparently the internal wiring of these "other" bulbs is just one resistor from each input to the top of the LED stack. A larger resistance for the tail light and a smaller resistance for the brake light. A diode in series with each resistor would have avoided the problem. For me, adding a single diode externally should "cure" this problem, so that this "feedback" voltage will not trigger the Motor-Off. However, I have not tried it yet.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Gordon, Gary and Edward, thanks so much for the info, I order the 3 bulbs and I will install the extra 2 tail lights along with the center stock light. So nobody figured out the led headlight or other bright headlight low voltage yet? Yes I am very interested in the regen, I would love to hook it up but you are going to have to make it very simple for me because I do not understand any of these electrical terms. I am having the bike shop across the alley put in a new steel braided front brake line and remove the phoney ABS system that was stock. They are also going to put in a new aftermarket standard turn signal in for me since that went out somewhere in the modification realm. I assume that the regen hand grim will just slide on the left side and does not affect the turnsignal/horn set up?
On the dyno chart they list the bike as having 10.25 hp and they stopped the test at 48mph but then no one was sitting on the bike. Thats it for now, best to you all....Mikie--i will be back online monday....

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Mikie wrote:

So nobody figured out the led headlight or other bright headlight low voltage yet?

There is no LED bulb that is DOT approved, fits in our H4-style headlamp assembly, and comes anywhere near the brightness of a standard halogen bulb. Not yet, at least. Your best bet for brighter headlights appears to be the Philips EcoBulb, which is essentially a 45w H4 bulb with the brightness of a standard 60w bulb. HID has the high efficiency we want, but is illegal (and dangerous) to retrofit into our standard headlight assemblies, due to glare.

However, scroll up a little bit, and check out the Solstice Solo LED I linked to above. These are 10w LEDs, putting out 800 lumens each. (A standard car bulb is 1500 lumens) A pair will be massively bright, and they appear suitable for mounting on the front forks as aux driving lights. I've ordered a pair, and have them sitting on the kitchen table, but now I'm waiting for my new bike to arrive, so I've got nowhere to install them.

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Re: Better Lighting on EVD & XM3500

Mikie wrote:

I assume that the regen hand grip will just slide on the left side and does not affect the turnsignal/horn set up?

No, I couldn't find a way to mount it that way on the xm 3500. What I did was took the left mirror off, slid the rubber boot out of the way then wrapped electrical tape around the mirror post till it was about the right diameter to mount the thumb switch.(you could use a piece of tubing the right size but tape is easier and faster and you won't be able to see it anyway) so then you slide the boot back in place then the switch on and then screw the mirror back on with the thumb switch still loose. Then tighten the set screw on the switch with the thumb (finger really) switch in the position most comfortable for you. I got my thumb switch free because the set screw was stripped so I just used a little soft adhesive to secure my switch. For wiring you will probably want to have the scooter techs do it. There's a number of different ways to do it that will work fine. It all depends on where you want to tap into the the scooter brake switch. I describe the wiring in the kelly controller much smoother thread. It might be a little confusing how I worded it but if you or your mechanic have a question either post it or PM me. Now I don't have to fix that rear brake problem because it's rarely used.:)

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2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

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