port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie my eb as a unregisterd motor v

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i.ve had my extreme 600 for about a year now..i done all the research and went to 2 court house.s also i.ve gone to town hall to check on city ordence.s .i called the dmv ..ive calledflorida transportation.. then i went to the police station..at the police station they gave me paper work to carry with me ..in the years time i.ve been stopped 9 times ..each time ive shown the paper work and then they make a phone call or 2 and then i go on my way..their are a lot of cops here..i figuared once they have all stopped me that it would end..but the problem is,,is that there are always new ones..i got stopped again and this cop wrote me tickets for driving a unregisterd motor v.and driving while licience is suspended.. now im going through the court prosses and let me tell u the courts here are rediculas..ive missed 3 days of work..and they prosicution is recomending jail time..in the meantime my bike is parked because they have threatend to take me to jail if im caught on it again..its 8 miles to work..and my next court date is.nt till feb 10.. what i want to no is that im not breaking the law ..eb 600 pedals on ..bike dos,nt go over 20 mph.. and under the 750 watts.. thanks.peace of mind

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Went thru similar hassle.scan0001.gifscan0002.gif

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Seems to be some EV nazi's in FL. Maybe it's time to think about selling the current ride and going stealth, like a tiny gearmotor on a mountain bike. Check out the 600 watt bmc gearmotor at highpowercycles. Most cops would never even know the bike had a motor with that.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

thank u for the time to print this..i will copy it and give it to my public defender ..more ammunition for her..thanks again and i.ll let u know how things work out

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Pursuant to Executive Order No. 12988, the Commission states the
preemptive effect of this regulation as follows. Section 1 of the Act
provides that its requirements ``shall supercede any State law or
requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent
that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal
law or requirements referred to in subsection (a)[the Commission's
regulations on bicycles at 16 CFR part 1512].'' Public Law No. 107-319,
section 1, 116 Stat. 2776.

(simply states that the federal def. takes precedent over more stringent state law)
http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr03/low.html

I'll try and dig up moped law for Florida real quick as well but the federal law there covers you almost every where as long as you where in the street and not on a street posted above 35mph (laws about bicycles on higher speed streets vary in some states)

[EDIT]:This entry was made in haste before I had fully read all federal statutes. The current (3/11/09) info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Federal_Laws_and_Regulation is correct and the links are to the US congressional library.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Florida DMV Procedure RS-61 II. (B.) Dirt bikes noted for off road use, motorized bicycles and Go-Peds are not registered.

http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intranet/dmv/Manuals/DMVProcedures/BTR/RS/RS-61.pdf

also
Electric Helper-Motor Bicycles

If you are at least 16 years old, you may ride a bicycle that is propelled by a combination of human power (pedals) and an electric helper-motor that cannot go faster than 20 mph on level ground without a driver license.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/mopeds1.html

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

i appreciate ur help.. i have done my homework on this and as far as i no these bikes are legal..i.ll show some of the links that i copied and summited to the courts. http://www.stluciesheriff.com/pdf/Bike_Motorcycle_Reqs.pdf.. this is a good one..i also contacted his office,,he told me that the bike is legal..as long as the bike dont go over 20 miles phr .. im good there..so i went back to copy the info on the bike..well where i bought the bike from (extreme scooters) ,, it says 20 miles per hour also faster if pedaling..thats not good..that exceeds the 20 mile per hr..so i searched and found this..http://www.eco-wheelz.com/catalog/xtreme-xb600-electric-bike-p-51.php..here it just shows the top speed as 20 mph ..that is good for it shows im with in the speed limit..i still havent gotton this thing over 17 miles per hour..even down hill it wont go any faster,,pedal all u want, it.s not happening..although since i,ve joined this sight i.ve have learned a few tricks .. lol..cant wait to test them..in the mean time im stuck going through the court system,missing work, buming rides ,being a pain to others..heres a link that says it all.http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/Sec003.HTM..also might i add that when i called dmv they said i could ride on the edge of the streets or the burm..also they said it is allowed on the sidewalks but pedal power only..thanks e.1

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

The enclosed case really would dispel any doubts. If you threaten pursuing a WRIT OF MANDAMUS your case would be quickly dismissed .Research the following :scan0011.png That judicial opinion would set you free read the whole case. good luck.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

I have hit in the 40s on flat ground on a normal 21speed bicycle.
(levee trail in new orleans, max cadence of 136, and a gear ratio of 53T front to 10T back). only held it for a few seconds.
the 20mph limit is on the motor under load without assistants. I keep thinking of what I can do to an xb-600 to make the pedals more functional.
I think in the end I would have a fair bit of machining to do but the thought that I may be able to make it work is what has me thinking about getting one when I sell my car.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Here is the direct link to said case. http://www.2dca.org/opinions/Opinion_Pages/Opinion_Page_2005/December/December%2014,%202005/2D04-4882.pdf

Good luck from Oregon as well. Scott.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Benissimo !Thanks for the link. Since xb-600 have both pedals and appropriate electric motor , that decision so far RULES in Florida.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

You are most Welcome. Here in Oregon we have pretty good laws for said vehicles. I have only been stopped once here and only then because I used a sidewalk / marked bike path to get across a bridge marked 40mph. I told the police that since my XB -700Li would only do 20 mph, that I felt safer on the sidewalk / bike path. He didn't ticket me but told me I should use my best judgment in getting across that bridge. I now ride with traffic with a bright reflector vest on. I have 500 miles on the scoot, since September '08 and zero issues so far.

Warmer days are coming. Safe scooting to all. Scott.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

heartofachef wrote:

...also faster if pedaling..thats not good..that exceeds the 20 mile per hr..

We all know that's completely untrue. The pedals assist if you're going up a hill but otherwise they're useless. If that's brought up, invite the judge to go for a ride.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

im not clear on this..writ of MANDAMUS ..if u could please explain..should i invite reporters ,,(to the court case )or should i file documents to the supreme courts..also not sure where to get that..any links would be greatly appreciated, thanks..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

(mandamus) n. a court order to a government agency, including another court, to follow the law by correcting its prior actions or ceasing illegal acts. .. VERY NICE..ok where do i get the documents to summit..i no everything has to be done nice and legal..u peeps rule thanks for all ur help..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

If you had public defender then you can file pauperis (poor). Just find name of official or agency that is curbing on your freedoms of going from here to there . File on the same case # . If you cannot handle a MANDAMUS file a HABEAS CORPUS . IT would force to dismiss you CASE IN COURT to avoid more complications . Tell your appointed attorney you are willing to go the whole 9 yards (full jury trial experts and investigators . The county would not want to spend 30 grants on a silly charge .

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

thanks for the reply mopedbrainy..i,ll do some researching on that,at this point i,m willing to go the whole way .

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

I second that don't plea out , force the full trial thus forcing a dismissal by them. You wont be disappointed. If they are silly enough to go to trial you have all you need to win. My XB-700 is coming in a couple of days and I have already payed a visit to the CHP office and asked about the electric bike rules, the only thing that the pleasant officer said that i disagree with is that you need a license class C to ride one. but if it is regulated as a bicycle under the Federal law then you don't need a license.... unless you need a license to ride a bicycle now as well.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

As long as it go,s under 20 miles an hour..got pedals..and the battery is under 750 watts (right)..the laws are so clear..so why is it that some police know that and some don.t..why do the court,s let it go this far.it,s just amazing.how they waste tax payers money.I called the arresting officer,s sarg..and he said that they changed the law. there is now a law on pedal and power..i argued there no such law that i have seen or heard of..has anyone else heard of this..probly not..i think he made that up ..i talked to 3 other officers since then and they all said that they don,t pass any new laws till june or july, and none off them have heard of such a thing..oh ,,lol,,this sargent want,s me to report back to him to let him know the judges decision..unbelievable..many thanks ,UniProX..i,m going to fight it all the way..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

My cheap advice is to try put all that litigation behind the soonest but the day you got it dismissed , get a free copy of the decision at the court house. In the meantime do not waive none of your rights .

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

well as i said i would keep all informed on procedings ,of my case..i was finally able to get some insight from my public defender,,all though it was her secretary,she said that her boss has , looked into it and i need a motor cycle indorsement..i have since called an attorney ..because motor cycle indorsement..means u need a license..she also quoted that if the bike is over 49 ccs u need a license,to register a scooter ,that tells me she has done no research..on electric bikes..now this is starting to get expensive..but at least with a real lawyer i will win,!!!! the judge the police and the public pretender will all finally know the laws and regulations of ebs in florida ,,court date is the 10th will keep all informed..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

Man, do not sweat that too much.Picture_1247.jpg Just remember: after your case would have been rescheduled several times in court. You would likely be asked to waive your rights to a full jury trail and agree to just meet with the judge.NAY ! Picture_1249.jpg WHY WOULD YOU IF EVERY COURT DATE YOU ARE OUT OF $100? HAVING TO RESORT TO FIRE PD on a court appearance, latter on she diligently obtained for me from the judge the top enclosed document. Trust me all that was a blessing in disguise since NO PROBABLE CAUSE would apply for ANYTHING ELSE If unreasonable stop search and seizure. Digged? For real, that tag has been permanently attached to the cycle and in use for close to a year.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

thanks,,mopedbrainy,,best read i,ve had in months,,the plate rules,,i,ve only have to get through this for a couple more weeks.then i should be able to ride again,,hmmmm what should i use for a plate,,lol,,thanks again..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

well i just got off phone with the lawyer i was thinking about hiring..he wants 5.000,,looks like im sticking with public defender..although the lawyer,,did ask a few quesions ,,he asked what about the seat height..this is confusing to me,,
Definition of "Bicycle"
(Section 316.003(2), F.S.)

arrow Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or a similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle. also he added that,i would have to prove that the bike doe,st go over 20,mph,,and that if i did go to jury trial,,i would have to bring in a witness [like a mechanic ]he also said i could tryto file a motion to dismiss,,

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

If they are hung up about the 25 inch seat height go to Walmart and get a cheap 16 inch bike to show the law is a bad law to start with.

Grandpa Chas S.

When a law is bad it can be challenged!!!!!!

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

"The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device."

the seat is 33" so it should meet that criteria.

" Title XXIII MOTOR VEHICLES Chapter 316 STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL 316.003 Definitions.--(82) MOTORIZED SCOOTER.--Any vehicle not having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels, and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground."

this is just a strange definition as it says without a seat.

"including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels."

even though it only has bearing on the safety equipment the xb-600 clearly meets the definition of a low-speed electric bicyle for motor vehicle safety standards showing it is federally accepted as a bicycle.
Title 49 U.S.C.A Sub-Section 30102 (a sub part of the federal transportation act) states that "For purposes of motor vehicle safety standards issued and
enforced pursuant to chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code, a low-
speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38(b) of the Consumer
Product Safety Act [15 U.S.C. 2085(b)]) shall not be considered a motor
vehicle as defined by section 30102(6) of title 49, United States
Code.''

section 38(b) of the Consumer Product Safety Act [15 U.S.C. 2085(b)]
states they are to be treated as bicycles with yet another reference to a different part of the CPSC code giving details about safety equipment required on bicycles.

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

hi,
Over in England our law is 200 watts max and top speed of no more than 15 mph but my son's scooter will go to 30 mph but the flick switch is for off road use and as any father wound say to there son please keep to the law ha. well when purchasing the scoot it came with a tinny registration plate affixed it really had the supplier and the traffic police sometime like to prove young ones that they are wrong !!! but my son wanted to wear a proper helmet like a bike so why not as its not law as it was classed as a peddle cycle and he was 16 years old can be ridden by a 14 year old but police radioed all was OK and they said he can go all the times ... but unfortunately he is 17 in 8 days time and he didn't want an electric scooter as he said that they are to slow but most of all he WANTED RANGE so it would of been ideal as i was going to sell his my emax 110s scooter as is nearly new and i have frequently had 50 - 60 miles range but he want to got to the seaside but the reason i got him the electric was to get him to his part time job and his collage and it did and has save him to date approx £700 scooter cost him £550 not bad return in approx 8 months hope you get things sorted its silly that they are putting you through why don't you go to your local mere or local mp to fight your case or better still why not post asking for help to fight your corner ask for an electric loving solicitor to help you am shore that they are out there.
kev

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

thank u executorvs,,i,ll research those links..i have some pretty good stuff,,unfortunately I'm going to have to get all the info that i can ..and again i want to thank all who have helped. I've got some other good links check these out, Motorized Scooters, Pocket Bikes and Low Speed Electric Bicycles..this is from Wisconsin..but i like how they define the different bikes..also i will add the electric assistance vehicles [such as wheel chairs] ..CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT,,thanks again to all..

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

i like to thank everyone,,who helped out,,i did have to go to jury trial and the case,s where dismissed,,because of everyones help i was able to present the documents needed to prove u don,t need a license or to have the extreem 600 registerd,,u should of seen the look on the officers face,,lol,,that made it worth all the trouble i went through..i now have copys of the courts decission,,which i laminated,also i now carry a copy of the federal regulations,,cause u just never know,[i might get stopped again],,again i like to thank all of you , and congress for passing the laws that make it legal to ride our electric bikes as they are written,, :)

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

YAHOOOO!! Chalk one up for the little guy. I would have very much liked to see that cops face as well. I can't help but laugh at that thought. Great job on not giving up. My thanks to you for sharing with us.

Happy and safe scooting. Scott from Oregon

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Re: port saint lucie in florida court ..trying to classifie ...

heartofachef wrote:

i like to thank everyone,,who helped out,,i did have to go to jury trial and the case,s where dismissed,,because of everyones help i was able to present the documents needed to prove u don,t need a license or to have the extreem 600 registerd,,u should of seen the look on the officers face,,lol,,that made it worth all the trouble i went through..i now have copys of the courts decission,,which i laminated,also i now carry a copy of the federal regulations,,cause u just never know,[i might get stopped again],,again i like to thank all of you , and congress for passing the laws that make it legal to ride our electric bikes as they are written,, :)

If you or anyone else that has had this problem in Florida is still around. I would LOVE a court case # etc. so I could print it out and submit this as evidence.

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Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

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