Pages do not finish loading

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garygid
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Lately, most forum pages load enough to see them, but never finish loading. Used to work OK. Using the Opera browser on the stock Wii.

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reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Oh, I was wondering why the usage tracking showed some Wii users ...

Anyway, that's kinda odd. May have to try the browser on my Wii to see what it does. Do you type URL's using the wand? Must be weird. Okay I'll try to be serious. FWIW I'm probably going to a government hearing tomorrow about offshore oil drilling and will be away all day.

Questions:

1- Any idea when this started? (need to know so I can track down the potential cause)

2- Does the page content show up and the browser simply continues indicating it is still loading? Or does the page not show up?

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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Choice 2.
Roughly the last week, but since you upgraded the system.
I just figured it out when I posted.

It is nice to sit back and relax and browse and read on a "big" screen. The browser is only $5 one time, and does not support pdf, or flash past ver7, some scripting does not work, and it tends to "forget" cookies when something large is loaded.

But, the zoom-in feature is very nice, and there is a wireless keyboard available.

But, testing again now, it is completing, but sometimes with what looks like a second fast load of something. Strange ... but it is still failing to "complete" sometimes, even though I can read thr page. I find that it is best if I "Stop" the incomplete load before I try another interaction with the forum.
More later.

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XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

1. This evening pages are loading completely, much quicker, in many fewer steps.
Much improved performance.
What changed?

2. The dashed underline for links leaves a blank "pixel-line" UNDER the decenders characters and the dashes are TOUCHING the characters of the line below.
This is NOT a good effect.

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XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

1. At about 9:30 PM PDT I upgraded the site to the latest point release of Drupal. That may have changed something. On the other hand what's likely the original culprit is that there are 3 or so javascript files loaded at the end of the page. If the server from which those files is coming doesn't respond right away the browser could still be showing it's waiting for something to load, hence that's the behavior you reported. At least one of those javascript files is coming from a 3rd party server and the performance of that server is out of my control.

2. Hurm.. I'll look at widening out the text. I like the dashed effect because it's less harsh than the solid underline. However it's implemented by setting a border and obviously a border is going to touch the line below like you say, I hadn't thought of that. Some padding might help. Or else I'll revert back.

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garygid
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Re: Pages still SLOW to finish loading

The pages still are slow to finish loading. Do you really need to load (and reload) or even use those Javascript files?

If you need them, perhaps get permission to have a local copy, so that YOUR forum's performance is NOT "out of your control"?

Or, do you need somebody to write a script for you?

Since they do not load (often) before I stop the loading, they are apparently not really necessary, right?

What do they do for you (us)?

Cheers, Gary

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages still SLOW to finish loading

The file in question is part of the Google Analytics service I use to track usage and traffic on the site. It tells me a zillion useful snippets about the traffic. This kind of tracking is an absolute requirement in managing sites on the Internet. It doesn't add user-visible featureitis but it's something I rely on.

There is an option in the supporting module to cache the javascript file locally, so I just turned on that option. It may make a difference, let's see.

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- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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garygid
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Re: Pages still SLOW to finish loading

1. The pages are still slow to finish loading (sometimes "never").

2. Excellent use of space putting the User ID on top rather than on the left side.

3. All 4 items (Online Dot, ID, Date Joined, and Points) could be on one line.

Keep up the good work.

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: Pages still SLOW to finish loading

Did something change?
The pages seem to finish loading substantially quicker tonight.
Well ... actually, sometimes, and sometimes not.

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

The VERY ANNOYING (often LONG) time to "finish" loading a page is STILL there.

Almost always, I have to WAIT for these "useless" scripts to load, and OFTEN I abort the page loading so that I can use the page normally.

These scripts must be of GREAT VALUE to you to make ALL your users suffer this kind of SLOW performance.

Please consider getting rid of them. Apparently they are not at all critical to the forum's operation, right?

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I have explained before what they do and the scripts are important or they wouldn't be here. I have explained that I don't see this behavior on any of the browsers available to me, and that does include Windoze with IE7. Another person described it as "100% CPU use" and I asked for more data and did not get an answer.

Clearly something is going on for you, which I don't know how to replicate which makes it hard to know what to fix. It's either a file taking a long time to load or else "100% CPU use", depending on who is reporting it, and it's not clear which it is.

If I recall right -- are you using IE6? I noticed there is a bit of code that runs only on IE6 which might be extra time involvement. Further IE6 is way beyond end of life and should be replaced with newer versions of IE or preferably Firefox.

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antiscab
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

i have the same problem, a piece of script crashes and locks up.
this happens with the newest versions of firefox.
eventual i get an error message indicating which part caused the lock up and whether i want to halt excecution.
after halting excecution, the page works normally.

next time i get the error, ill make note what it actually says.

Matt

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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I use IE7 on XP, and Opera v?? on the Wii. I seem to have similar end-of-page-load delays both places, but I will try to check for CPU usage on XP later. Here, on the Wii, there is no way to check. But, the page loads and displays, and then the loading progress bar stops and waits, sometimes for a short time, often for 10 to 20 seconds, and sometimes longer. Then, the "busy loading" indication goes away. If I "abort" the loading during this wait, things seem to operate OK, so the "loading" seems to be not crutical to user-interaction with the forum.

I think you said that the scripts were gathering some sort of usage data for you.

But, we seem to "pay" with every refresh.

Maybe you have some local caching or IE7 browser setting that we are missing?

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

There are multiple scripts in action, not just the usage statistics one. For example the google ads are also implemented with javascript. The IE6 only script I mentioned does some kind of fixup for PNG files, and runs after the page loads.

There are three scripts loaded, two at the beginning of the page, the third at the end. All are loaded off my server. Originally the google analytics script had been loaded from googles servers but I changed that setting a month or so ago. Once loaded the scripts do some execution of bits and pieces.

For example the popup menu at the top of the script is partly driven with javascript. There are different bits and pieces of javascript serving different purposes at different bits of the pages.

I wanted to know about CPU load because it's possible the script execution is the problem, rather than loading the scripts from the server.

For example I often notice in the firefox statusbar that a request is going to google analytics' server. The script isn't being loaded from their server so obviously that's the script execution sending data to the server.

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- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Charger bike (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

BTW for an experiment I just turned off the google ad which has been just above the menu. I'd been thinking to do so anyway because it has a very low click rate indicating it's not terribly popular. It means that each page view will do one less request to google's servers.

BTW I'm noticing at the moment on my browser & system, that the statusbar indicator is showing the page still loading for a longish time. However the page is usable even while loading. Maybe that's why I hadn't noticed.

I use a monitoring service (mon.itor.us) for a while and it shows the page load time on this site is pretty darn variable. "Page load time" is a little different than "pages do not finish loading" but it's close. In any case the current statistics are Uptime 100%, Avg=3926ms, Min=95ms, Max=9703ms.

That's a bad average page load time. Because of that and a couple other reasons I'm thinking to switch servers again.

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- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Charger bike (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

And while I'm thinking about this... it's not like my browser is 100% snappy all the time. In fact it's generally slow overall. I like to keep a bunch of browser tabs open like three different gmail windows open, all my web sites, web pages I want to read but haven't yet, etc.

It seems this effects the browser performance. For example some sites (like zoomilife.com) make the browser slow. Zoomilife.com has a lot of javascript widgets blinking away all the time. It would make sense that having a lot of open tabs (50 or more is common for me) makes the memory footprint of the browser bigger.

I routinely see the browser make odd pauses before it responds. For example typing this I'm noticing usually the letters show right up, and sometimes there's a pause for 10 seconds or so before they appear. Other times dragging a scrollbar takes awhile for the scrollbar to respond.

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- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

With Opera on the Wii there are no tabs, just "one screen".

On Win XP I often have 2 or 3 tabs open, but I experience this "long loading" even when using only one tab.

Edit: on Wii, it just took 4 seconds to "save", 2 to redraw, and 6 to "finish" loading.

That is 12 seconds for the "save", then I have to go Back twice (more delay) and redraw to get back to where I was. Other forums go Back (and Redraw) as part of the "save".

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I just tried reloading this page 5 times, with an average of about 16 sec. (until done loading) and a max of about 18 sec.

I have a high-speed cable (10 Mb) connection, and wireless "g" (I believe) to the Wii. For comparison, the ApteraForum works very fast here.

The "editing" (or reply) page, to write (or edit) this post, is still not finished loading after some minutes.

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

An idea which might help with page load time is to simplify the menubar, discuss here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/6838-possible-simplification-menu-bar

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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I just tried re-loading the Recent Posts page 5 times, and the "after-visible-load" delay was once only a second or two, and 4 times over 60 seconds (and I "aborted" these loads at that point).

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Tried the same.. 5-10 seconds per page load, a couple were longer on the order of 10-15 secs.

I'm on a 1.5mbps DSL.

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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Now, I tried to edit my previous post, spent 5 minutes adding material, the load-delay was not done even by then, so I aborted the loading and clicked Save, and got "Access Denied" and lost the input.

I tried re-loading Recent Posts 5 more tines, and got 3 fast and 2 "long" (forever?).

The edit-page loading is still not done now!

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Are you timing until the page is fully done loading, or just appears visually all there?

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XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Waiting for the progress bar to finish. Further the page is often somewhat usable before the progress bar finishes.

Have you tried firefox?

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reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Q: How was the site behaving today? I was busy with other stuff today and didn't spend a lot of time on V. However on the night of the 22nd I turned on a caching module that's supposed to improve performance. According to the monitoring service the page load times were less bad than before. Unfortunately the YSlow tool hasn't been upgraded for firefox 3.5 or I'd be able to do real timing measurements.

Gary, I also masqueraded as you and made a posting - it didn't take 30 seconds to save, it took the same short blip of a couple seconds as it does when I'm me.

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- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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garygid
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Much different now, much, MUCH better.

Reloading Recent Posts, the after-visible-load-delay (AVLD) is gone. In ten tries, 6 to 8 sec to fully done loading, average under 7 sec., no detected AVLD.

The long AVLD on the Edit and Reply pages is gone also, and the right-side lists no longer shoe there. The icons over the edit box seem to be the last to load, but they seemed to "jump out at me" as if I had not seen them before!

Edit: Save this (edited) took 12 sec. from click to the completely rendered result.
Then, next time 16 sec., then 12 sec., then 14 sec.

It breaks into 8-to-12 sec to respond to the click on Save and do anything visible (remove the Edit page), then a consistant 4 sec to render the modified topic.
Much better rendering speed.

Very good modification, indeed!

Were the icons all local?
In any case, this caching is a big help.

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Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

reikiman
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

Yes the icons are all local and are individual files. If I had YSlow available I could see whether they're being cached in the browser or not. The problem with them being individual files is well known, that browsers can only download two files at a time, there are 13 icons in the edit toolbar, meaning 7 sets of downloads, and time is ticking away with every set.

The caching I turned on was on the server side relating to whether it regenerates content or simply retrieves it from the cache.

YShow is the tool I know to see what the browser cache is doing or not doing.

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LeftieBiker
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but the site won't let me start a new forum topic, and at the top of every page is a list of error messages. I haven't switched browsers (Firefox) so something is wrong with the site. Here is what is at the top of this page (it's often much, much longer):

Warning: trim() expects parameter 1 to be string, array given in kudos_form() (line 591 of /home/robogeek5/visforvoltage.org/sites/all/modules/kudos/kudos.module).

pcarlson1979
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

In the past few days I keep getting this. On my iPad, iPhone and now on my iMac. Any iDea (pun) what it is?

Screen Shot 2011-12-09 at 12.19.06 AM.png

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Derby
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

I also get this list of error messages on top of some pages (including this one). So far as I can tell, everything is loading OK and complete. Have seen no problem as a result of the error messages or along with the error messages. I use Firefox.

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Webmaster
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Re: Pages do not finish loading

A couple days ago I upgraded the site to latest revisions of the software.

Apparently some local changes I'd made to the Kudo's module have been overwritten. In the meantime I have disabled the Kudo's module.

The other issue with being unable to post a message - I have found the cause, and we can now post new messages again.

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