XB 700 Li complete power failure

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Deputydaves
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Joined: 02/05/2010
Points: 70
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

only a battery with a GOOD BMS will solve this issue. there's no way around it, at least for my bike. what U described was the way my bike was from the beginning. I took things into my own hands since the manufactuerer was useless. check out all my threads, search; "deputydaves" If you check the new electric bikes from extremescooters the all come with the new Lifepo4 batteries. I think they knew about this issue from a long time but sold us the lemons anyway. since my new battery and throttle and alot more I haven't had any problem. I have just about 2500 miles on it. It is about time to replace the tires though. please check out me posts and MODs.
Dave C Stout

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Rjmakem
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Joined: 08/16/2011
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Hi All

I have experienced my first power fail. No warning just died. I am charging the battery now and hope that is all it was. I do not like the fact that it gives you not warning. Unplugged the battery plugged it back in an the motor turned as long as it was not under any load. The minute I placed it on the ground the power died. I checked the battery voltage going into the controller. When I re plugged the battery it was 52 volts. I gave it power and the voltage went to 5 volts. I presume there is some kind of overload protection built into the battery. When I re plugged again the voltage was back up to 52 volts. I usually charge the battery off the bike. I noticed that if you charge on the bike the charger keeps cycling after a full charge. When charging off the bike the charger stops and does not keep cycling. This indicates to me that there is power drawn by the controller when the key is removed. The schematic diagram shows a power line that is never switch off to part of the controller. I think this is a poor design. Another problem I have had this bike less than 2 years and have had five flat tires on the rear wheel. It is very important to keep the tire pressure above 40 psi. I found out the hard way and cinched the tube when I hit a bump. It was not fun walking that thing home. Hope this helps.
I like the ride of this bike but am beginning to think it's going to give me big problems on the battery end.

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Deputydaves
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Speculation; since u have had several flats and now electrical problems id have to say/look at the wires going to ur hub. It sounds like a current problem. If u severe one wire to the hub u may have the problems u describe. I know Im very careful when changing my rear tire and wonder each time if I stressed the wiring too much. Check there. Another thing when u get a flat from a tire with low pressure it's called a snakebite flat because usually both sides of the rim pinches the tube so it looks like a snake bit it. Anyway if u bought a new bike with a lifepo4 (spelling) battery they have a good BMS so I don't think its ur battery yet. Search my threads and you will find alot on this issue. I have some links there too to show you how to take a hub apart and fix it... if u dare. Good luck Dave C. Stout

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Deputydaves
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Oh yeah, I bought kevlar tape and spray glued it to the inside of my tires for punture resistant tires. Its lite weight and costs pennies. Or as others do carry "fix a flat" or "slime" . It beats walking!

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BOBBYCRUISE
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Joined: 08/20/2012
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

In reading this thread, it sounds as if loss of power is while trying to operate bike. my problem is I am getting no power at all. No dash, horn, lights. Nothing! Have replaced battery and charger. Sent controller in to by checked with Xtreme. I was ok. Checked voltage where I felt that i could. From battery, charger. I have noticed that when plugging battery in, it doesnt make the "pop" sound that it used to. Tech keeps wanting me to check motor voltages and brake switches. Any ideas? This has been going on since May. Also I did run scooter until drained the last time it worked.

Deputydaves
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Well, what kind of battery, lifepo4 or just lithium? There's a fuse is the old lithium batteries. The lifepo4 might as well. Did u buy from extreme? The old extreme batteries had no BMS or acted like they had none in about to rip my old extreme lithium battery apart. I bought my bike with this battery in2008 and already its swollen from an oxygen leak which seems it useless. A mere 4 years! Cheap man. Anyway I bought a lifepo4 and all my problems with power outages stopped. My lifepo4 WAS NOT a extreme product. If u don't get that poping noise I would definitely check voltage coming out of battery. U can take the control module apart. it's. Easy to do. U have to know that there is little plastic insulators behind the power transistors so make sure they're put back properly. But the reason I say this is that u can check the voltage where it goes into the control unit insef to satisfy yourself that u have voltage there. Keep us updated asap. Check out ALL my other post to help even more

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Heman B.
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Joined: 05/18/2012
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Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Many posts since I opened the topic,
Can't read them all.

All I know is when the battery voltage goes below a treshold, the controller draws more amps to get the same power output.
When the voltage gets too low, the amps get too high, and the circuit breaker trips (at least, so did mine).
I have a 2012 model though...

Heman B.
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Joined: 05/18/2012
Points: 102
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Also, the batteries used in Xtreme's XB-700Li is LiPo, not LiFePo. The iron element is not present in the battery, which means less recharge cycles.

Most batteries rate the following:
LiMn (upto 700cycles).
LiPo4 700+ recharge cycles
LiFePo4 Upto 2000 Recharge cycles.

Just mentioning.

Btw, I just done a good 450 miles on my 700Li, and a good 15 recharges. My battery already reduced capacity for 20%.
I NEVER ride it completely empty (ride it no more than until pointer points at 40% of capacity, but usually before it reaches 50% on the fuel gauge). At 40% I also experienced the breaker circuit shutting down, when accelerating on sandy ground, and I had to slowly throttle up.

Most of the time I ride 10 mile rides, then charge.
I have a 10Ah extension battery. My longest run was 35+ miles (below 40miles); when the battery indicator was at 40%.

Realistically without extension battery, you should have this value at around 28 miles.

It was good enough to drive on the streets, but not in loose sand/grassy fields, where the motor demanded too much power.

Heman B.
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Joined: 05/18/2012
Points: 102
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Forgot to add:
Don't forget that the recharge cycles are not only the cycles you get plugging it into a wall charger!
Some recharge cycles count from charging the bike's battery from regenerative braking.

I would estimate that regenerative braking accounts for ~1/3rd of regular recharge cycles. The amps going to the battery may be a lot higher than the amps from a charger (which is usually between 3 to 5 amps).

PzlPete
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Points: 157
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

When the voltage gets too low, the amps get too high, and the circuit breaker trips.....this is exactly what I have seen with my electric vehicles, including the 700li. Has anyone else experienced this??? I am considering adding a 21st cell to my 4000li, but was concerned about over-volting and therefore tripping the circuit breaker, but I see exactly what Heman describes...low voltage leads to higher amps drawn by the controller, resulting in the circuit tripping. Does this make sense???

Heman B.
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Points: 102
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

The way I see it there's no max amount of cells in parallel you can place. The circuit breaker may trip at 30A, but if you have a motor and a controller that under normal circumstances only draw 20A, you can even add 4 x 20A batteries in parallel.

Concerning the circuit breaker shutting down in series, you actually make it more difficult for it to operate correctly.
The higher the voltage, the lower the amps, so in case you're feeding your bike 50V, 20A (=1000W), before the circuit breaker shuts off; at 60V it will only shut off at 1200W (since they are AMP bound).

So the higher the voltage, the more you're stepping into dangerous territory in case something goes wrong.

What at 50V could cause the circuit breaker to stop, at 60 or 70V could burn a coil in the motor.

BOBBYCRUISE
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Joined: 08/20/2012
Points: 6
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Well finally back o road. Turned out to be a break in the chord, right at the molded plugfor battery.
Got a new battery out of the deal. How do you tell what style battery it is? ie. lifepo4, lith

ProDigit
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Joined: 05/18/2012
Points: 11
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

Depending,
Your battery most likely is LiPo, if it's a 2011/2012 version; and LiMn if it's before '11.

They haven't equipped the bike with LiFePo yet; but you can get LiFePo batteries from BMSbatteries. They're quite costly though. Think about $600 for a 30Amp battery (vs $700 for the stock 40Amp battery).

jwjimerson
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Joined: 10/09/2017
Points: 12
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

What would cause the circuit breaker on my xb 700 li to constantly trip and cut off the power? It happens every time I connect the battery. I get no power to the scooter at all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

MEroller
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Points: 842
Re: XB 700 Li complete power failure

There are several reasons for a cicruit braker to trip in this kind of application:

1. in case of a short in the controller (that is sort of the "raison d'être" of a circuit braker...) => controller went bust and must be replaced

2. in case the circuit braker originaly designed for life in an immobile house was worn out by road bumps => circuit braker must be replaced

3. im case the controller has a big battery of capacitors at it's inlet (they all have that) the inrush current caused by the charging of the capacitors is so high when you switch on the circuit braker that it immediately trips. To get around this get hold of an incadescent lightbulb (110...240V~) and bridge the circuit braker with that light bulb using appropriate leads, and check if it eventually stops glowing. After you see no more glow wait another 10 seconds before removing the light bulb leads and switch on the circuit braker. That device is called and Inrush Current Limiter, or ICL in short, and should always be used when you switch on the circuit braker to precharge the inlet capacotrs of the controller. If the light bulb stays ON you have a short in the controller, see 1.

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