Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

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reikiman
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Saw this press release (text below) http://www.pr.com/press-release/164021

This would be for their Xrider bike: http://www.xgpinc.com/products/xrider.php

Specs:

  • 4500 watt - 72 volt proprietary hub motor
  • 6.5 feet long, wheelbase of 4.8 feet
  • Load capacity of 330 pounds
  • State of the Art, 60 Amp Hour, 72 Volt Lithium Ion (LFP) Battery Propulsion System (6kWh battery pack)
  • Range between charges of over 100 miles
  • Lithium Ion Battery System will last for over 2000 charges – about 7 years based on one charge per day
  • Proprietary, computerized Battery Management System for safety and long life
  • Speeds approaching 65 MPH
  • Climbing capacity of over 20 degree grade
  • Front and rear disc brakes
  • Built-in battery charger – 110/220 volt
  • 2 to 3 hour charge time from empty
  • Net weight of 266 pounds

It's not clear whether they have dealers yet ..

I'm having a little trouble with their statement about being the first.. First with a statement of conformity, and that it qualifies their bikes for highway use. I don't know anything about this but a bit of yahoogling got me to the following page about obtaining manufacturer status, and it doesn't say anything about the certificate being required for highway use.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/mfgcert.htm

Xtreme Green Products' X Rider Becomes First Electric Highway Motorcycle to Receive U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Certification

The Xtreme Green Products electric motorcycle, the X Rider, has become the first electric highway motorcycle to receive a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Certificate of Conformity. This certification, which is mandated by the Clean Air Act of 1990, allows the X Rider to legally travel on U.S. highways.

Las Vegas, NV, July 09, 2009 --(PR.com)-- Xtreme Green Products, Inc. (XGP), an eco-vehicle company specializing in the development of electric land vehicles and personal watercraft, has announced today that the X Rider has become the first electric highway motorcycle to receive a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Certificate of Conformity.

The EPA Certificate of Conformity is a required certification for vehicles to operate on U.S. roads and highways. The certification was mandated by the Clean Air Act of 1990 to certify that vehicles conform to all EPA regulations and emission standards.

“Receiving the EPA Certificate of Conformity for the X Rider electric motorcycle represents an important milestone for Xtreme Green Products,” commented Claire Roth, Vice President of Government Affairs at Xtreme Green Products. “For the past six months, we have worked diligently with the EPA to develop procedures for certifying electric motorcycles such as the X Rider. Now that the X Rider is certified, it is now designated as operational on U.S. highways and officially qualifies for electric vehicle tax credits offered through the federal government’s stimulus package,” she added.

The X Rider is the ultimate electric, two-passenger, Green Urban Commuter. This powerful, yet efficient, electric vehicle can travel up to 65 miles per hour with a range over 100 miles per charge. Features of the X Rider include a proprietary power management system, allowing added safety and battery life, a built in battery charger that allows the X Rider to fully charged in less than 3 hours, and a 4500 watt, 72 volt proprietary hub motor developed to maximize top speed and range. With an operational cost as low as $0.003 per mile, the X Rider is the perfect eco-friendly alternative to traditional fuel-powered transportation.

About Xtreme Green Products, Inc.
Xtreme Green Products, Inc., is an eco-vehicle company designing and building revolutionary, electric powered, land and personal watercraft. Our products in development include extreme sports vehicles such as jetboards, jet skis, ATVs, and snowmobiles as well as everyday products such as motorcycles, light trucks, police mobility vehicles, motor scooters, go carts, people movers, and golf cars.

SEC Disclaimer
This press release contains forward-looking statements. The words or phrases "would be," "will allow," "intends to," "will likely result," "are expected to," "will continue," "is anticipated," "estimate," "project," or similar expressions are intended to identify "forward-looking statements." Actual results could differ materially from those projected in Xtreme Green Product's ("the Company") business plan. The Company's business is subject to various risks, which are discussed in the Company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"). Receiving EPA certification should not be construed as an indication in any way whatsoever of the value of the Company or its common stock. The Company's filings may be accessed at the SEC's Edgar system at www.sec.gov. Statements made herein are as of the date of this press release and should not be relied upon as of any subsequent date. The Company cautions readers not to place reliance on such statements. Unless otherwise required by applicable law, we do not undertake, and we specifically disclaim any obligation, to update any forward-looking statements to reflect occurrences, developments, unanticipated events or circumstances after the date of such statement.

__________________

- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Charger bike (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia

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MikeB
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

AutoBlogGreen has another item about this today:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/13/x-rider-nabs-for-first-epa-certification-of-conformity-for-elect/

We applied for it originally because according to the stimulus package, one of the requirements to be eligible for the tax credits was to have a Certificate of Conformity. As it turned out, when we originally approached the EPA, they said that every on-road highway vehicle had to have one and that low speed vehicles do not need to have one because they aren't going on highways.

They indicate that the X Rider got the first EPA certificate (and the image does show the certificate number 001), but I think our friend John at Current Motor Company may have the second one (at least in the electric motorcycle category)

__________________

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

I'm still trying to get the filing done using EPA's computerized system to get our data uploaded. Interestingly, their payment system was much easier to use - so I've paid the fees! We're almost there.

However, XTG's certificate is actually pretty funny! Go look at it.

There are at least two problems with it. Can you spot them?

According to that filing XTG have a battery pack which is about 3.5 times the size of the Tesla's! Not bad for a motorcycle, eh? FYI the certificate lists 1440 Ah as pack capacity and 102 Volts as pack voltage that gives: 1440 Ah * 102 V = 146,880 Wh = 146.88 kWh. I think the Tesla pack is 42kWh.

Me thinks someone screwed up and thinks 24 60Ah cells in series gives you a 1440Ah pack (24 * 60 = 1440). But, that's not how it works. So, they really have a 60Ah pack. I also think that the folks in need of the remedial EV schooling reside at XTG HQ - the forms you have to fill in ask you for the pack capacity (so let's not blame the EPA!)

"So what?" I hear you say - well, would you rather buy your bike from a company with the "first EPA certificate" (woo hoo!) or from a company who actually has a freakin' clue?

Oh yeah, and that 102V pack voltage should really be 76.8V. They should be using the nominal cell value for LiFePO4 which is 3.2V. Also, by stating 102V it implies they'll be charging their cells to their individual peak voltages of 4.25V. Not a good idea. Unless you like to sell cells (by the seashore?).

Anyone from XTG care to comment? Anyone from XTG want to take a digital multimeter out to their bike and measure the pack voltage and send us all a photo? Anyone at XTG know what a multimeter is? Hello?

Or, is XTG just buying their bikes from a 3rd party and blindly parroting whatever they tell them?

Of course if XTG really does have a 1440Ah / 102V pack then I apologize and I'll quietly go back and figure out how the heck they managed to do that!

First EPA certificate indeed! Maybe they'll have number two as well - and the revision date field will be filled in...

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

MikeB
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

Check out the stats listed on their website as well, they also seem a little bit off. It's better than the EPA form, but still not quite right:

State of the Art, 60 Amp Hour, 72 Volt Lithium Ion (LFP) Battery Propulsion System (6kWh battery pack)

60aH x 72v = 4.3kWh, which is a good bit less than 6kWh. And of course 6kWh isn't what the EPA certificate shows, but at least it's in a plausible range.

Net weight of 266 pounds

This seems awfully light for a bike with a 6kWh(?) battery pack, a 4.5kW motor, and is capable of 65MPH(?). Are they using bicycle components, or something that's rugged enough for 65MPH? Maybe they really mean 266kg? Nah, that seems much too heavy, I'd expect 300-400lbs for those stats, and would be afraid to ride anything lighter (unless it was made out of titanium, but a price of $7,999 doesn't justify that).

Of course, 65MPH is probably also exaggerated, I suspect that the CuMoCo Standard model is a good benchmark for a similar sized battery pack and motor, and John is claiming just 55MPH for it.

Range between charges of over 100 miles

That's probably the standard exaggerated claim based on 30MPH constant driving, not real world driving in traffic. I figure ~10 miles per kWh is a reasonable range expectation on a large scooter, so they will actually get between 40 and 60 miles, depending on how large their battery actually is. Of course, if they really do have a 266lb bike, then maybe the range is much better than I expect, but that seems unlikely. I wonder if they actually test drove this, or just plugged some numbers into a model?

I'm inclined to agree with John, whoever is writing this stuff down doesn't really know what the actual stats are, they're just echoing claims from elsewhere. This type of behavior is very damaging to the entire electric vehicle industry. They should build the best bike they can, and then market it based on how it actually performs. This is part of the reason John started his own company, and why I'm buying from John rather than looking at other models.

__________________

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

MikeB wrote:

Check out the stats listed on their website as well, they also seem a little bit off. It's better than the EPA form, but still not quite right:

State of the Art, 60 Amp Hour, 72 Volt Lithium Ion (LFP) Battery Propulsion System (6kWh battery pack)

60aH x 72v = 4.3kWh, which is a good bit less than 6kWh. And of course 6kWh isn't what the EPA certificate shows, but at least it's in a plausible range.

Again, they're using the peak voltage (4.25 V per cell) when they should be using the nominal voltage (3.2 V per cell). That's especially true when you're calculating capacity (because the peak voltage only exists for a fraction of the time).

4.25 * 24 * 60 = 6120.

It should be quoted as 3.2 * 24 * 60 = 4608.

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

reikiman
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

I sent a tweet to them.. maybe they'll pop in with some answers.

__________________

- David Herron, Green Transportation Examiner, Green Transportation Info, The Long Tail Pipe, Electric Race News, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Charger bike (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia

Lost Cowboy in China
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

I am considering buying almost the same bike here in China. Its a 72V 5000watt motor and sells for $3400.

Lost Cowboy in China
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

Sorry wrong picture

kevin smith
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

hi what's the specs pleas.kev

marcopolo
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

Hate to say it, but we are going to experience a flood of dealers and modifiers of Cheap Chinese (PRC)scooters and EV's with wild claims and importers ranging from the naive to to sharp con-men out to make a quick buck.

Even the term, 'highway legal' is designed to be misleading. Vectrix establish the term 'freeway legal' to indicate that the V1 was capable of 60mph+.

CoMoCo, by contrast, is located right in the neighbourhood of the most respected testing authority in the world.

Unless you are a real expert at rebuilding cheap crap, you are much better sticking with someone like CoMoCo, who actually knows what he's doing, than dealing with a guy who was selling siding the previous week!

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marcopolo

kevin smith
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

did they sell locomotives in an early life..
kev

kevin smith
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

is it me or has this seat got celluite ????????????
but apart from that and the silly 50p bit of plastic covering the rear disc break.kev

dzehrbach
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

There is a lot of horse pucky in that Press release. The motor is a Taizhou Aluminum 72V, 4.5 kw., not some wondrous special built. It gives up torque to get the extra speed. There are 3 different windings available in that hub size which trade torque and rpm around for use for 60-72 volts. We sell these motors (and others)along with controllers to various companies and individuals through our engineering company and used the higher torque version in the www.zelectricvehicle.com line of motorscooters.

That motor will move a bike about 64 mph on 72 volts in a 13 inch wheel combination. But it has to be flat with a low load. We tell our customers to use the higher torque version because in the real world which is not flat, the higher torque motor runs neck and neck with this motor at 72 volts. Tell me how to send you the power curves and I can give you the full blown enginering test data on both motors. Readers can swap these motors out for all of the ones they say failed and they cannot find replacements for.

The EPA story is bull. Its simply a filing. No 6 months"diligent working". Just fill in the zeros and pay the fee. Done.

The EPA filing is not connected with the tax credit as the story says. That takes an IRS certification. See Notice 2009-58 for "Qualified Plug In Electric Vehicle Credit under Section 30 of the IRS code. Just a filing. Nothing to it. You should call their bluff and ask for a copy of the IRS response and a copy of the companies certification document which they must give to each customer.

The range of 100 miles is more puffery. Their bike uses 40 Ah batteries. At 72 volts and the consumption rate of that motor, it is only remotely possible with no load, dead flat, steady throttle, very, very slow speeds. More like about 64 miles max.

About 6 companies make the same bike in China. I do not see anything special from their photos or web site. We were asked by one customer to look at it but after going to the frame shop in China (which makes them for everyone) I felt the frame was not very good as it was then (May 28,09) and needed strengthening.

DH Zehrbach

Mountain chen
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Re: Xtreme Green has a new scooter (motorcycle), highway legal

Don't make conclusion before you visit each factory,Maybe others are the same,except for ERIDER's motor are patent built by ourself,it is 1-pc motor and no jumping at all.less overheated than XM generation motors see new motor.JPG
motor plant.JPGmotor plant2.JPG
We sell to Xtreme Green motor everything except for controller and BMS.

72V with the same current never give up torque to increase speed.Pls be more professional !

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