Flashing battery and temperature lights

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Paul
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Joined: 03/24/2008
Points: 104

Help!
V fails to charge with battery and temperature lights flashing.
When a charge is attempted, charging starts and then within seconds the whole thing goes black!
Not enough charge to get home, left the V at work till tomorrow. Bike still runs, just short of charge with bonus disco lights.
Changed out a dead cell 7 days ago with no problems untill now.

I have had software lockup type problems before, fixed with a 'hard reboot'.
Unless anyone else has any ideas, I will try a hard reboot tomorrow and see if the falashing lights reset.

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Paul

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Mik
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Joined: 12/11/2007
Points: 3727
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

I would have a very careful look at all the connectors, particularly the two connectors for the temp sensor PCB's.
Maybe they were not closed or tied down well enough after the cell repair? Just a guess...

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Paul
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Joined: 03/24/2008
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Very true Mik.
As the wise old electrician once said "Loosa connection"
It's a panels off, battery covers off look around in the innards type of fix anyway.
I'll let you know haw it goes tomorrow evening.
Cheers PN

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Paul

Paul
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Joined: 03/24/2008
Points: 104
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Bike behaved perfictly today. No diss-asembly required.
Recharge and ride home as if nothing had happened.

I hate intermittent faults!

'Rainy day software lockup' seems to be the cause. 3 times now over the past 12 months.

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Paul

Paul
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Points: 104
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Found a possible cause of 'rainy day software lockup' today.
The front pack battery management card is located inside the frame at the front of the battery bin. This card is subject to the weather via two big holes in the very front of the frame just under the headstock.
Well, this card was found to be suffering from some corrosion. Probably due to the weather and its position in the flow of cooling air.

Solution?
I cleaned up the card and liberally coated it in a clear laquer.

Is the problem fixed?
Not sure as the fault was intermittent, but a test ride and recharge was sucessfull today.

Watch this space!

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Paul

Mik
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Paul wrote:

Found a possible cause of 'rainy day software lockup' today.
The front pack battery management card is located inside the frame at the front of the battery bin. This card is subject to the weather via two big holes in the very front of the frame just under the headstock.
Well, this card was found to be suffering from some corrosion. Probably due to the weather and its position in the flow of cooling air.

Solution?
I cleaned up the card and liberally coated it in a clear laquer.

Is the problem fixed?
Not sure as the fault was intermittent, but a test ride and recharge was sucessfull today.

Watch this space!

I thought about closing those holes with tape, or at least wire mesh. I could not think of any purpose they might serve. Any ideas, anyone?

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Rebel
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Joined: 07/15/2009
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

seal the holes with Duct tape ,they are only there for welder access during frame fabrication.

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ElectricLou
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Are you sure we can seal those holes? The vectrix has temp sensors on the battery packs and also an ambient temperature sensor. I do not know where the ambient temperature sensor is, but when I looked at that board it appeared to be a logical place for it. If that is the ambient temperature sensor, it will read different if the hole is taped over and may affect operation of the bike. It also appears that both those holes will allow some air to flow between both battery covers.

clagros
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Joined: 01/29/2009
Points: 85
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Hi,
No matter the outside temperature, each time I start up the V and press once the left brake lever, it shows always 21.
After that, it changes to a value over 30, from 32 to once 47 (but most of times 33-36), so I guess that is the battery temperature.
My question is related to the 21. It cannot be the outside temperature, becuase we've got from 15C at night to about 40 when the V rests under the sun a few hours.
So, what this esoteric 21 is? Or what it should be?
Thanks!
Claudio

clagros
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Joined: 01/29/2009
Points: 85
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Hi,
No matter the outside temperature, each time I start up the V and press once the left brake lever, it shows always 21.
After that, it changes to a value over 30, from 32 to once 47 (but most of times 33-36), so I guess that is the battery temperature.
My question is related to the 21. It cannot be the outside temperature, becuase we've got from 15C at night to about 40 when the V rests under the sun a few hours.
So, what this esoteric 21 is? Or what it should be?
Thanks!
Claudio

clagros
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Joined: 01/29/2009
Points: 85
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Hi,
No matter the outside temperature, each time I start up the V and press once the left brake lever, it shows always 21.
After that, it changes to a value over 30, from 32 to once 47 (but most of times 33-36), so I guess that is the battery temperature.
My question is related to the 21. It cannot be the outside temperature, becuase we've got from 15C at night to about 40 when the V rests under the sun a few hours.
So, what this esoteric 21 is? Or what it should be?
Thanks!
Claudio

undead
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Joined: 06/23/2008
Points: 283
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Same here, i am guessing that the 21 is a default temp it shows while figuring itself out

Mik
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Points: 3727
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

undead wrote:

Same here, i am guessing that the 21 is a default temp it shows while figuring itself out

Yes, probably a calibration process.

If you have the scooter turned on for a few seconds before plugging in the charging chord, then you immediately get the correct temperature (Still running old firmware here).

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jmap
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

clagros wrote:

Hi,
No matter the outside temperature, each time I start up the V and press once the left brake lever, it shows always 21.
After that, it changes to a value over 30, from 32 to once 47 (but most of times 33-36), so I guess that is the battery temperature.
My question is related to the 21. It cannot be the outside temperature, becuase we've got from 15C at night to about 40 when the V rests under the sun a few hours.
So, what this esoteric 21 is? Or what it should be?
Thanks!
Claudio

The temperature presented in the display is the highest temperature on all battery sensors. This works only with the latest firmware. The 21ºC is presented before the first reading, so ignore it. It takes about 10s to real temperature can be measured.

RaDy
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Forget about this 21C reading at the begining, it doesnt seem to mean anything just a value before the real one is displayed. It could have been a 00 but theyve made it 21.

X Vectrix
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Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 236
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

The SW does an 8 second average of the 12 temperature sensors. So for 8 seconds after a power up the 21 deg is just a place holder.

jmap
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

X Vectrix wrote:

The SW does an 8 second average of the 12 temperature sensors. So for 8 seconds after a power up the 21 deg is just a place holder.

I've read that was the highest temperature reported by the sensors that were presented, not the average and it makes sense to me, the average is not so important.

Mik
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

jmap wrote:
X Vectrix wrote:

The SW does an 8 second average of the 12 temperature sensors. So for 8 seconds after a power up the 21 deg is just a place holder.

I've read that was the highest temperature reported by the sensors that were presented, not the average and it makes sense to me, the average is not so important.

It measures one sensor at a time, calculates the average, then displays the highest temperature and battery telltale if certain conditions are met.

The conditions are something like (guessing here a bit):
--more than 10degC difference between highest and lowest temp
--higher than 45degC at any temp sensor.

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X Vectrix
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Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 236
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Sorry, yes its the highest that is displayed but for other SW algos it calculates and uses the 8 sec average and that causes the delay.

Sandy
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Joined: 12/16/2008
Points: 12
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Those holes in the front of the frame serve only to allow in the wet and rubbish thrown up by the front wheel. Tape them over with duct tape, this prevents the ingress of water and rubbish. The holes serve no useful purpose.

On the subject of holes serving no useful purpose, there are more useless holes which may be causing trouble. These holes are in the plastic side panels to the battery compartment. They are long ovals and there are three maybe four in each side panel. If they are left open they just may be allowing air to bypass the battery cooling air flow and may be contributing to the overhaeting battery problems. Cover these holes with duct tape and/or silicon sealant but don'y get it on the battery casing as this will make the inevitable battery replacement more difficult. You will need to remove the step through panel to do this but I think it is worth the effort.

jmap
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Sandy wrote:

Those holes in the front of the frame serve only to allow in the wet and rubbish thrown up by the front wheel. Tape them over with duct tape, this prevents the ingress of water and rubbish. The holes serve no useful purpose.

Can someone post pictures of these holes that can/should be taped over? I cannot confirm which ones you are talking about... thanks.

Silas
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Joined: 08/09/2009
Points: 7
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Paul-
How is your "repair" working? My Vectrix did the same thing (flashing battery & temp lights, refuses to charge), and is yet to come back to life. With the apparent bankruptcy proceedings, my dealer is playing hands off for the moment, due to lack of parts availability. I would love it if this is a simple fix, rather than a dead battery and/or controller, as he suggested. Any news?

Silas

Paul
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Joined: 03/24/2008
Points: 104
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

The fix?
Well, all is well at the moment. I have ridden about 100kM in various weather conditions and charged up two or three times.
I took the advice detailed on this forum to tape up the big holes under the headstock. This measure should minimize the chance of further water damage to the front BMS card.

I suggest that if similar flashing disco lights are seen on the dashboard, then attention should be given to the front BMS card post haste. The tiny surface mount components will be irreversably damaged if corrosion is not stopped quickly.

Cheers PN

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HubCap
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Joined: 08/17/2009
Points: 101
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Hi
I know this is an old thread but can anyone offer more specific guidance on Paul's advice to give attention to the front BMS card? How should I clean it and protect it. Paul talked about Laquer in an earleir thread - any particular type?
Many thanks
Hubcap

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ofx210p
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Joined: 10/20/2008
Points: 375
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

I own pauls bike now. His fix was a form of waxed tape that repels water taping up all the holes around the headstock and the front temp board which sits inside it.

I don't actually know if paul reads this anymore as he no longer has a vectrix.

On my original Vectrix the first thing i did when i had to look at those boards and batteries etc was get a ton of insulation tape and tape it up so moisture couldn't get in and around the board itself rather than stopping moisture to the area.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Paul
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Joined: 03/24/2008
Points: 104
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Yep, I still have a look occasionally.
The waxed tape is called Denso Tape.
The lacquer I used was simply a clear polyurethane spray can. The ultimate result of my many attempts to stop the re-occurance of the battery and temp lights came to naught.
I must have had the temp boards out a dozen times over 4 years, many attempts to fix, but when wet, rainy weather came along, so did the fault. Frustrating!
The bike now lives in NZ, a place known for wet drizzly weather!
Chris has a set of spares from another bike, so he may be able to keep the disco lights at bay........maybe?
Best of luck.

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HubCap
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Thanks Pual,
Great to see you are still around on here. It's rained pretty much non stop here in UK for four months. Clothes in our house are going mouldy with the constant humidity.
Maybe enclosing in a container with silica gel might do it or would heat then be a problem I wonder?

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Paul
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Points: 104
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

I hadn't thought of silica gel. Good idea.

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Paul

ofx210p
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Points: 375
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

I know i am tempting serious fate here.. and may be about to have a problem later today

However since your bike arrived i had the temp sensor problem when it first arrived. Expected it. But ignored it anyhow as i wasnt ready to ride legally.

Then i changed the firmware to what i am used to (The lairds) and its not caused a problem in our torrential rain for the past 500km / month

Interesting ?

I did have a complete system crash on the first test ride after installing the lairds firmware, I have had this happen a long long time ago and had me confused for a minute. Basically regardless of key position the bike wouldn't run nor would it shut down. Quick pull of charger cables from under the front fairing rebooted the systems and it was all good again.

Not had a problem since.

Drew
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Joined: 08/21/2008
Points: 136
Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

ofx210p wrote:

I know i am tempting serious fate here.. and may be about to have a problem later today

However since your bike arrived i had the temp sensor problem when it first arrived. Expected it. But ignored it anyhow as i wasnt ready to ride legally.

Then i changed the firmware to what i am used to (The lairds) and its not caused a problem in our torrential rain for the past 500km / month

Interesting ?

I did have a complete system crash on the first test ride after installing the lairds firmware, I have had this happen a long long time ago and had me confused for a minute. Basically regardless of key position the bike wouldn't run nor would it shut down. Quick pull of charger cables from under the front fairing rebooted the systems and it was all good again.

Not had a problem since.

Oooh, that is interesting. I have just put a post up - see VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' indicator and the one thing I failed to mention beforehand is that I had the same flashing battery and temperature warning lights. It didn't worry me as I've seen it before on a number of occasions and it's usually down to the temp sensor connector (just above the front battery pack) being wet/damp/having a wobbly moment. I gave the area an appropriate thump, turned off and on 'et voila', the warning lights went away. I've had the entire loom out before and lacquered the sensor boards so it shouldn't be down to them. The main problem now is (see link to post above) that the bike is still sitting at home, powered on (no keys) and has completely locked up.

Can your 'reboot' method be performed relatively easily? It's something I've never tried. Can it be done without removing the front fairings? Mine is the old ESD type charger.
Even more frustratingly, it's supposed to be going to an MoT tomorrow...

Help/advice always appreciated, thanks!

Best wishes,

Drew

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sparker
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Joined: 07/23/2009
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Re: Flashing battery and temperature lights

Hi Drew. Try pulling out the 2 Anderson connecters beneath the front fairing. There's no need to remove anything though you may skin your knuckles doing so. I had a similar thing recently and Steve Scott advised me to try that and it worked for me. For info, I used to get the same flashing battery and temp sensor lights in wet weather, but have now had the board and sensor replaced by Emissions Free Solutions and it hasn't happened since.

Hope it works for you.

Scott

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