New charging posts, Charge with Dr Who!

Yeah I saw that in passing but didn't check up on it. An obvious issue will be what sort of vehicles would use these charging stations and whether the electric power provisioning to telephone boxes is enough to support charging anything more powerful than an e-bicycle.

nitpick: doctor who == police box, not telephone box ;-) ... or... exposing my naiveness about things british, but was the telephone on those police boxes available for the public to make phone calls?

I'd rather be able to charge from my cell phone...

I'm looking around the TH!NK web site and found this.

Think’s partner Going Green receives congratulations from Spain’s Industry Minister
http://www.think.no/think/Press-Pictures/News2/Think-s-partner-Going-Green-receives-congratulations-from-Spain-s-Industry-Minister

It describes 10 million Euro's worth of investment by Spanish government(s) in ownership subsidies as well as a network of 575 charging stations. Also in Seville only EV's will have access to the city center and also get a 75% reduction in municipal taxes.

If the political will was there, then it should be quite cheap to pay people for the installation of standard outdoor power points and installation of electricity meters and give them double of what they pay for the electricity used.

That would lead to the installation of charging points exactly where they are needed.

Need a charging point somewhere? Send the government information package to the owner of a suitably located house, outlining how it will cost them nothing but earn them some money each time the power outlet actually charges an EV!

That way, there would be no cost for people installing charging stations in the many suitable locations which already exist.
The funding could be withdrawn at any time (once some better idea comes along and the EV market goes beyond it's current tinkerers and enthusiasts stage), because the individuals installing the power points have not had an expense, anyway. They could then turn the power point off or start charging users, running their own business.

If my "Pi x thumb" calculations are off, and this would cost too much, then add it to the petrol excise! That would add further incentive to switch to EV's.

nitpick: doctor who == police box, not telephone box ;-) ... or... exposing my naiveness about things british, but was the telephone on those police boxes available for the public to make phone calls?

I believe it was a phone that attached directly to the local police station. So instead of dialing 999 from a public phone you could go into a police box and get in touch with the police station. Now of course if it was really a Time And Relative Dimension(s) In Space machine then you'd likely completely forget your reason for calling the local bobbies...

Off topic??? Who, me? Never!

The police box was used for locking up criminals until a padiwagon arrived. The phone was accessible only from the outside, and did connect directly to the police station.

If you wondered into a TARDIS, you could spend weeks lost inside, and would most certainly forget about whatever issue was bothering you.

But to the original topic, converting a public pay phone into a charging station makes good sense, at least for small vehicles that only need 110v power. They will all have both power and phone(data) connections, so you can bill the user as needed.

You are all correct, the Doctor's Tadis was a Police Box. I am surprised that Drive-in Fast food outlets haven't seized the opportunity to provide charging stations! considering that the relatively small numbers of EV's, it would make a great, and very economical marketing gimmick to counter an increasing anti-environment image. The Petrol giant BP was set to try a free EV charging post programme in BP service stations with food outlets, but Government and Insurance regulations prevented this concept, claiming either that fuel licence regulations prevented the sale of other fuels,or that EV charging at Petrol outlets would be too dangerous!

But I like the idea of utilising obsolete technical infrastructure, to enable new tech!

I don't think you'd be at a McDonalds long enough to charge. My idea for the US would be to have charging outlets right next to malls. Premium parking locations while you go and spend your hard earned money. In the UK more cities are doing park and ride type transport where the public park outside the city and get bussed in to the center. Another prime location for charging stations. And the same could be provided for commuters. Couple charging infrastructure with a slick public transport system and you've got a real winner.

Although I personally dislike soulless malls, I agree, they would provide excellent charging sites. I am not so sure of busing people into city centres. Car-less cities tend to die at night, and be given over to urban decay. Although, you maybe right, a really attractive public transport system, might bring back high quality urban residential development.

Well, I'm no fan of malls either, but then I'm not American. :D

As for car-less cities at night, I wouldn't go that far as to ban cars. But during the day when you've got all your workers there then I think if you offer a good solution, together with penalizing those that insist on driving, (parking fees until 6PM - which they do already), and then relax things at night you've got a good solution. A lot of these kinds of things are in place already, just not coupled with an EV infrastructure.

I don't think you'd be at a McDonalds long enough to charge. My idea for the US would be to have charging outlets right next to malls.

I think there's room for two types of public charging infrastructure (and there are already folks working on implementing most of this).

1) Have 110V available where cars are parked for a long time (say greater than 1 hour). So, malls, parking meters, park and ride, your place of work, parking structures etc. There are a LOT of places where your car sits for that long and an hour or more is worthwhile even at the lower 110V charging rates.

2) Have "fast charge" stations where a fast charge is 20 minutes (our batteries are already capable of receiving a 20 minute charge). The issue with these of course is the charger - you'll need three phase, high voltage and high amp capability. But it's not crazy high. A restaurant would likely already have that sort of power supply available, a convenience store would have to add it. The charger would be expensive as well - think $5K or more. But with a 20 minute charge you could charge while shopping or eating. For comparison does anyone know how much a gas pump costs?

So, 110V everywhere (or whatever domestic voltage levels are) and "fast chargers" in medium stay businesses who want to attract clients. I guess there could also be a middle ground of a 220V option in more controlled locations to give a "medium speed charge".

For our bikes with the largest battery pack (C130 and 5.75kWh):
Standard charge from a 110V socket = 6 hours
Medium fast charge from a 220V socket = 3 hours
Fast charge at maximum 3C rate = 20 minutes

We plan to experiment with 3C charging over the winter (so if you live in Ann Arbor and the lights go dim you'll know why! ;-) )

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

I don't think you'd be at a McDonalds long enough to charge. My idea for the US would be to have charging outlets right next to malls.

I think there's room for two types of public charging infrastructure (and there are already folks working on implementing most of this).

1) Have 110V available where cars are parked for a long time (say greater than 1 hour). So, malls, parking meters, park and ride, your place of work, parking structures etc. There are a LOT of places where your car sits for that long and an hour or more is worthwhile even at the lower 110V charging rates.

2) Have "fast charge" stations where a fast charge is 20 minutes (our batteries are already capable of receiving a 20 minute charge). The issue with these of course is the charger - you'll need three phase, high voltage and high amp capability. But it's not crazy high. A restaurant would likely already have that sort of power supply available, a convenience store would have to add it. The charger would be expensive as well - think $5K or more. But with a 20 minute charge you could charge while shopping or eating. For comparison does anyone know how much a gas pump costs?

So, 110V everywhere (or whatever domestic voltage levels are) and "fast chargers" in medium stay businesses who want to attract clients. I guess there could also be a middle ground of a 220V option in more controlled locations to give a "medium speed charge".

For our bikes with the largest battery pack (C130 and 5.75kWh):
Standard charge from a 110V socket = 6 hours
Medium fast charge from a 220V socket = 3 hours
Fast charge at maximum 3C rate = 20 minutes

We plan to experiment with 3C charging over the winter (so if you live in Ann Arbor and the lights go dim you'll know why! ;-) )

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

This was along the lines I was thinking. Lots of businesses could add some kind of capacity. Where I work already has 110V sockets for every single parking space. I don't think we need to think along the lines that any charge offered has to be a full charge in the time that we're going to be hooked up. If fast charges represent a significant expense then levy an appropriate fee for those that actually need it.

As for the cost of gas pumps, I do happen to know the price, just not off the top of my head. I'll let you know when I find out, but it's in the thousands.

...

So, 110V everywhere (or whatever domestic voltage levels are) and "fast chargers" in medium stay businesses who want to attract clients. I guess there could also be a middle ground of a 220V option in more controlled locations to give a "medium speed charge".

...

In Australia we have 240V as the standard, Europe has 220V AFAIK.

I figure from several comments that 220V is optional in the USA.

And from the Vectrix extension lead debates it is quite clear that the 110V puts severe limitations on charging speed. The top charging rate in the Vectrix is (I believe) limited to cater for the USA market. It only charges at C/3 = 10A DC; that draws about 15A AC at 110V and maxes out the amperage specifications of the standard USA household outlets. Adding a long extension lead at 110V can even cause trouble due to further voltage drop and resulting increased current draw by the charger.

For countries with 220-240V supply I see no problems with just using the standard infrastructure for EV charging. There are so many power points already there, and many could be installed for little cost. Frequent top up charges wherever you park is the go! The way traffic is becoming more congested it sometimes seems I could do all my charging whilst waiting at red traffic lights! ;-)