"Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

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ApostateZero
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Joined: 10/05/2009
Points: 11

Hi,

I've got a Kelly KDS48100 and I need to limit the current to protect my motor. Allegedly it is programmable but I've had no luck programming it. It'll say "sure, current limited to x%" but then not limit current at all. Kelly's help support is abysmal.

Is there a way to "trick" the controller into thinking that I am only going to 25% throttle when I am going to full throttle? It would be a piece of cake if I had a 0-5k Ohm throttle. I have no clue how the Hall Effect works. I tried putting a potentiometer in series with it (0-5k or 0-100k) and got weird results. Either no difference or at some point the controller would take off while i had zero throttle.

Anyone overcome this particular hurdle before?

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antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
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Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

you could wire a 3.3v zener diode in parrallel with the throttle,
that should hold the max throttle output down to 3.3v.

what throttle setting this corresponds to will depend on what the lower and upper limit settings are in the controller.

Matt

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marylandbob
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Joined: 06/22/2009
Points: 524
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

You need to reduce, or divide, the VOLTAGE output of your throttle, without damaging it. Placing a low voltage zener diode in parallel with its 0 to 5 volt output MIGHT work, but if no provision for current limiting is provided, either the zener diode or the throttle may have their current ratings exceeded at full throttle. A better solution would be to install a voltage divider, perhaps using 2 resistors, such as two 1/4 watt @ 1,000 ohms, across the 0-5 volt output, and connect the controller to the midpoint of the resistors. This will now give 0-2.5 volts maximum, and changing the ratio of these resistors will cangce the voltage division ratio. If the total resistance is kept at 2,000 ohms, the resistor current will be limited to 2.5 milliamperes maximum, at full throttle. An added advantage of this voltage divider over the zener diode, is the fact that the operating range/physical funcionality of the throttle control remains the same, so you still turn it just as far, to reach the new, lower top speed as previously required to go faster.-Bob

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ApostateZero
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Joined: 10/05/2009
Points: 11
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

Hi Bob,

I think that is exactly what I need, a way to limit the output to the control, but still give me sensitivity of full throttle.

Only thing is, I have no idea how to wire a voltage divider. Is it easy? Is it split, one side goes resistor then to ground, the other side is a resistor to the throttle?

thanks,
Todd

Spaceangel
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Joined: 07/15/2009
Points: 495
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

Do you know of the color code on your Hall effect?
On the XM-3000 there is a switch on it to limit speed but on the XM-3100 they got rid of the switch.
I forgot how to insert quotes so I used quotation marks.
----------------------------------------------------------------
< "I've got a Kelly KDS48100 and I need to limit the current to protect my motor. Allegedly it is programmable but I've had no luck programming it. It'll say "sure, current limited to x%" but then not limit current at all. Kelly's help support is abysmal.
Is there a way to "trick" the controller into thinking that I am only going to 25% throttle when I am going to full throttle? It would be a piece of cake if I had a 0-5k Ohm throttle. I have no clue how the Hall Effect works." >

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ApostateZero
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Joined: 10/05/2009
Points: 11
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

This is a homebuilt project, here is all the info I have on the throttle:

http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=488

ApostateZero
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Joined: 10/05/2009
Points: 11
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

Ok, sorta new questions. Volts are volts right? My controller says it wants 0-5V. I measure it using the hall effect throttle and it appears to be so. But if I put a 0-5k ohm pot in the loop instead of the throttle, I can control volts in the 0 to 5 range, but I get no output from the controller? What gives.

I'm at the end of my rope. I think this was a $139 lesson: never use some mystical magic "hall effect" that you don't understand, and never buy a Kelly controller, their customer support is crap and their "programmable" controllers don't respond to programming.

marylandbob
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Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

Give me a telephone call, or send me YOUR number, I will try to talk you through this!---Bob Curry, 301-439-3873 (Maryland, USA)

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Robert M. Curry

mf70
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Joined: 12/01/2006
Points: 712
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

I may be wrong, but I believe this is exactly what is wired "stock" in every XB-600. There is a small circuit board in the line to the throttle, apparently as a trim for the precise 20 MPH max speed.

ApostateZero
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Points: 11
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

Its taken forever, but I did figure out my problem. And it was a simple, stupid thing on my part. I didn't have the pre-charge resistor across the contactor. I took it off early on when I was having some other issues. Never put it back on. Everything else works fine without it. But I was actually reading through some Alltrax documentation and it mentioned something like "without resistor here controller will see a noisy signal and may have issues limiting current". I put the resistor back in and it appears to be limiting current properly now.

That whole "Hall Effect" is still a mystery! Definitely going 0-5k ohms next time. I understand ohms.

Thanks everyone for the help.

jumpjack
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Joined: 09/22/2012
Points: 29
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

How can I emulate the throttle to test my KEB72801 controller?
And how can I determine which kind of throttle I have on my ebike? Controller supports these types:
•Standard Throttle Input: 0-5 Volts(3-wire resistive pot), 1-4 Volts(hall active throttle)

MEroller
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Points: 837
Re: "Tricking" a 0-5 V hall effect throttle?

jumpjack wrote:

How can I emulate the throttle to test my KEB72801 controller?

1. Buy Kellys' Single Controller Control Box(KEB)
2. Use a standard 5kOhm potentiometer and correctly connect to the controller

jumpjack wrote:

And how can I determine which kind of throttle I have on my ebike?

Measure the resistance between for instance the minus and signal return cable of the throttle. If moving the throttle changes that resistance it will be a potentiometer, if not it will likely be a hall-effect sensor.

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