Gray Wire Circuit Results

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hguido1
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Joined: 09/16/2009
Points: 216

Ok, First off sixpax2k9 is right. The gray wire is connected into some sort of pot that is adjustable under the black shrink wrap. You can move this pot and notice a difference in how fast the motor is spinning. My was about three quaters of the way up. I turned it all the way up and could notice a difference in how loud the motor was and it seemed to be spinning faster. I did this several times while the motor was spinning and could hear and see the difference. Here is the weird part of the story. I connected the gray wires together which is connected to the throttle by way of the pot under the the shrink wrap as sixpax2k9 said. When I did this my throttle would not work at all. I disconnected the gray wires and then moved the pot back and forth and that is when I noticed the differnece in the motor speed. So here is my take on this. I have an aftermarket controller that maybe doesn't work when the gray wires are connected together,but it seems to me that the pot is already working to adjust the motor speed with or without the gray wires. This circuit makes alot of sense from x-treme's stand point. They can just adjust the pot to make sure the bike doesn't travel over 20 mph. With all the variables in electronics you would need a circuit like this to adjust bikes that are a little to quick when produced at the factory.

I then took the bike out for a spin I registered 29mph as I have before but this time it was on a less than fully charged pack. Before I did this I took the bike to store on the same not fully charged pack and it was recording a speed of 27mph.

If in fact this does adjust the speed up a couple mph provided it isn't already turned all the way up that would be great. My problem now is I wanted to use this to slow the speed of the bike down for certain situations. Doesn't seem like that will be the case since I personally can't even connect the two gray wires together.

I will repost a speed test on fully charged pack later this weekend. If the 2mph is a real increase I should see maybe 31mph top speed.

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gushar
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

As for X-treme doing any adjustments I just don't think that would be the case. As I understand these scoots are boxed in China and that box doesn't come open until it hits your driveway, etc. So I don't think that would be the case. That seems to have been confirmed by many on here. Maybe the manufacturer in China is doing that prior to shipping to the US importer (x-treme)????

What I'd like to see from those folks who post here regularly and have the necessary test equipment, and have stock xb600s without any controller upgrades, is some tests of power measures to the motor, rpms, etc. when that pot is turned--both with the wires connected and disconnected. I'd certainly do it but I have neither the expertise nor equipment. But that would be interesting and worthwhile and help confirm all this. But thanks a bunch to Hguido1 for your preliminary testing!

Gus

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Gus

sixpax2k9
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

I would have to think that something weird is going on with your bike Hguido1. Unless I am very mistaken the potentiometer does nothing unless the 2 gray wires are connected. When connected it is in parallel with the throttle thus changing the signal being sent to the controller. When it is disconnected I see no theoretical or real reason it would affect anything whatsoever. An open circuit (which it is when disconnected) does not affect the overall circuit response, unless it includes some sort of power source. I did not see a capacitor on that board, so unless there is some sort of short there should be no change with them disconnected. As far as how it is shipped (connected or not) I have yet to find a rhyme or reason. Some have had it connected and some disconnected, when having it shipped to the US. Canada has a 500W motor limit, perhaps it is mostly used for places like that? Just because it CAN handle 600W does not mean it is truly a 600W motor, if it is only being supplied 500W, then by all considerations it is a 500W motor! You can get by with these kinds of tricky specifications when it comes to electronics as everything is dependent on the whole makeup of the device and not just the individual components. Adding even a little bit of Resistance (the pot-meter) can change the entire device.

It would be cool if someone that knows more about the throttle type posts here, I would be interested to know if it is current driven or Voltage driven.

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Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

gushar wrote:

As for X-treme doing any adjustments I just don't think that would be the case. As I understand these scoots are boxed in China and that box doesn't come open until it hits your driveway, etc. So I don't think that would be the case. That seems to have been confirmed by many on here. Maybe the manufacturer in China is doing that prior to shipping to the US importer (x-treme)????

What I'd like to see from those folks who post here regularly and have the necessary test equipment, and have stock xb600s without any controller upgrades, is some tests of power measures to the motor, rpms, etc. when that pot is turned--both with the wires connected and disconnected. I'd certainly do it but I have neither the expertise nor equipment. But that would be interesting and worthwhile and help confirm all this. But thanks a bunch to Hguido1 for your preliminary testing!

Gus

That would be great if someone could do that. I would like to see that test done. Maybe the company in China uses the circuit before they export to USA or Canada. They added this circuit for a reason and the only thing it would be good for is to limit the throttle to control top speed. I just took a quick ride with full charge of batteries. My top speed was 29.5 mph. So it didn't jump to 31mph like I would have liked but it is going almost 30mph and it feels like I am getting to that speed pretty quickly. Maybe faster than before. I do know this without any test equipment anyone that moves that pot from all the way down to all the way up will see a difference in the sound and speed the motor is turning. I read a little on using pot's in another forum on e-bikes. Some are using them to do exactly what I think is going on here. The pot limits the volts of the throttle so even though you have twisted it full it is not providing the full 5v to the controller. If no one will do the testing gushar mentioned I will at least provide a speed test with the pot all the way down and full charged batteries to compare to this test.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

What if the gray wire is no longer needed. What if the Throttle circuit now includes a pot standard. Maybe the gray wire was used before to connect some kind of voltage divider or a zener diode wired in parallel with the throttle. I am sure they have modified the circuitry of the xb-600 over the last couple of years. If anyone has the gray wire connections but doesn't have the pot that would answer the question.

Like I said earlier I cant even connect the gray wires together or my thottle doesn't work at all.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

I REALLY dont think it is doing anything to your bike while they are disconnected Hguido1. That would be virtually impossible (though even the strangest things do happen). I had another thought on your top speed differences. Normally when we are testing the bike after making changes we do this almost immediately after charging is complete. The pack is NEVER higher on voltage than right at that time. After the charger hits its top voltage it goes into a trickle charge and the voltage will actually drop. Even an hour or so after the full charge is done, even if the charger is left on and trickle charging, the pack can drop to around 13.5-13.7V per battery. Whereas, by contrast, each battery can be up to 14.5V either just before or just after it is "fully" charged.

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Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

Sixpax, I hear what your saying about the voltage and your right but I tested after the pack had dropped to 82.2. It charges to 83.8. I waited for the voltage drop. I can diffently tell you that I can't hook the gray wires up if I do the throttle does nothing. I can adjust the pot and it makes a difference in the speed of the motor and the sound, it gets louder. Not sure how this circuit is wired to the throttle but it diffently is on my bike without the gray wires connected.

robert93
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

A disconnected component cannot function, thats a simple law of circuitry. I suspect that somewhere along the way, the potentiometer wire is paralleled off to a different connection, and or, is different from the wires you are connecting to the throttle. Testing with an aftermarket controller will in most cases give unpredictable results compared to a stock controller as far as which wire goes where. It could turn into quite an interesting light show, so be careful :-). The next question is, is it totally worth disassembling your entire wiring harness to chase the potentiometer circuit wires? If it work, it works :-)

sixpax2k9
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

I agree... in your case, with an after market controller, I would not mess with the wire at all. turn it all the way clockwise and leave it alone. If that pot is affecting your controller there is a GOOD possibility that something is connected wrong, as an open circuit can NOT affect the device without and input!!!! meaning something is wired wrong or there is a short in the wiring somewhere. I am just confirming what he said, I have an electrical engineering degree...... An open circuit can not affect a device with out some sort of power/input!!!!! If the pot was in series with the throttle it would NOT work when disconnected, therefor it has to be in parallel. Meaning it changes the voltage supplied to the controller by varying resistance. V=IR, so affecting the resistance is directly involved in the voltage, and visa versa. If your controller is on a variable input for the throttle... say 5-10 volts as compared to the stock controller 0-5V that could be the problem!!! I am just generalizing these figures!!! Not every controller is meant for the same throttle type.

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XB-600.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

I agree with what you are saying, but you are thinking that the circuit is wrong in my bike. My bike is a brand new it is less than a month old. Is it possible that the the circuit is wired now with the pot included? So there is no need to connect the gray wires because it is already connected.

This circuit board I believe is in parallel with the throttle and is meant to control throttle voltage. I going to call x-treme to confirm monday.

The controller I have is made to use a hall effect throttle, whic is what the XB-600 uses I believe.

robert93
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

your bike is new, but is it STOCK,,, factory controller, un-modded wiring? If turning the pot causes a change, the part is LIVE, and functioning, no other wires need be touched. If you have changed controllers or done any custom work on the bike, you may not get as helpful a response from X-treme as you might hope. Customizing usually voids a warranty. Some bikes have shipped with the limit set too low, and they've had to disconnect wires to get full speed. Not all controllers are designed the same way, nor are all wiring harnesses identical. One would hope that within the same brand/model line, things would be standardized though. Some useful things to look for when trying to compare are: 1.Make/model of bike 2.Date of Build 3.Make/Model of the controller. That way if there was a production change, it can be identified. The fact this is about XB-600's helps narrow it a bit. The problem is not so much that the circuit is wrong on your bike, but that connecting wires without knowing where they go can disable/damage your bike. Sometimes the best answer is from asking the right question. "Does the switch create an open circuit, or a short, in order to bypass the limiter?" If the switch breaks the circuit to bypass the potentiometer, then "connecting the grey wires at the dash" wont achieve the same results. Wiring harnesses can be tricky things, one wire appears to go here, but fakes left, another doubles back. The only true way to tell what is what is to disconnect everything AFTER fully labeling connectors conclusively, masking exposed connectors to prevent shorts, and testing each identically colored wire with a meter, one point to the next, set for continuity(beep on short is wonderful) If you still posess your sanity at the end of this, you will have a much better understanding of the wiring of your bike, and how parts relate. it could be wires you thought connected are two different strands.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

ok, I looked at this circuit board again today. It is wired between the throttle and the controller. It has the black ground from the throttle and the green signal wire from the throttle attched to it on one side and the same black and green wires on the otherside. Those two wires then go down and connect in a 3 plug with the red wire from the throttle. The red wire isn't part of this circuit. The board has a pot on it and a small resistor. The two gray wires are also connected to the board. It looks to me that the green signal wires voltage is being reduced by the resistance of the pot. Which in turn will slow the bike down if not fully turned clockwise. I couldn't begin to tell you what these gray wires do. They do not have to be hooked up on my bike for this circuit to work. I can't even see why they would be needed. Unless some how finsh the circuit when connected together but that would also mean that the green signal and the black ground wires wouldn't be connected at all if the gray wires were left unconnected. So you would receive no signal to the controller if that was the case.

I just started thinking about what type of throttle do we have? It has the 3 colored wires like a hall effect throttle but they also make a potentiometer throttles. That type of throttle could explain the pot but usually they are wired inside the throttle and you don't see the circuit board and the wire colors are different.

My controller is setup to work with a hall effect throttle, I am not even sure if it will work with a potentiometer throttle so maybe by connecting the wires it adds to much resistance from the pot and that is why it doesn't work? One thing I didn't try was turning the pot counter clockwise when the gray wires were attached but that would add additional resistance correct?

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

ok, we have a hall effect throttle in these bikes and the pot that is wired in is a voltage divider circuit from what I can tell. I am still not sure why my aftermarket controller won't work with gray wires attached. I can say this though the voltage divider circuit wouldn't need the gray wires to make it work. It is just a pot resistor wired from the signal wire to ground and the more you move the wiper in a direction you will get more or less voltage. So that being said everyone should try this circuit on their bike and make sure it is turned all the way up. I think it will adjust the throttle voltage regardless of the gray wires with will increase the bikes speed.

Buzzer
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

OK, I've been following this thread for awhile, so I'll enter my recent experience of the past two days. The local police were kind enough to install a portable radar sign a block from my house, so I have seized the opportunity to do some speed tests on my stock (no mods) XB-600. With a full charge, my SB-600 speedometer shows a top speed of 23 mph. The radar sign shows my top speed as actually being 18 mph. After riding 7 miles and taking the edge off my full charge, the radar sign shows my top speed as 16 mph. I opened up the console of my bike. I have two gray wires that are not, and have never been, connected to anything on the dashboard. I found the potentiometer which was set to almost all the way open (clockwise). I turned it all the way clockwise (about another quarter turn) and the radar sign showed my top speed as 17 mph, an increase of one mile per hour. These speeds are based on me making multiple passes by the radar sign, and the results were consistent each time. I am, admittedly, a complete electronics idiot, so this is a truly "blind" speed test. If the potentiometer doesn't change the bike's speed if the gray wires aren't plugged into anything on the dash, then I guess I have witnessed either a modern miracle or what doctors call "the placebo effect" for the XB-600 ;-D If anyone has any suggestions of other experiments I can do with the potentiometer and the gray wires while the radar sign is still up, I'm open to ideas.

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hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

You did the test in my opinion. I looked at this pot and I turned mine all the way up it was only about half way when I started. It does make a difference even without the gray wires being hooked up. If you want to pull the dash apart again try turning the pot counterclockwise with someone giving it full throttle you will hear the differnce in the rpm of the motor. It will slow down. The pot adjusts the 4v signal coming from the hall effect throttle. clockwise more voltage to controller. counterclockwise less voltage to controller. I don't know why this pot is wired into the hall effect throttle circuit but that is what it does. I took this idea and added a pot on a pushbutton switch that I can now activate from under the dash and it bring the bike back down to a top speed of 18mph when I give it full throttle. When I push the button to turn it off my top speed goes back to 29mph on 72v system.

Buzzer
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

I know this is a very unusual concept, but before I do any more experimenting, I've decided to take the radical step of contacting X-Treme technical support. I know, I know. I'm such a rebel. Anyway, I've asked them if there are any adjustments I can make to the XB-600 to increase its speed without adding an extra battery, etc. I also specifically asked them about the purpose of the potentiometer and the disconnected gray wires in the console. I explained to them that in Maine, the XB-600 is an "electric moped", so I am not bound to a maximum speed limit of just 20 mph and I'd like to go a little faster if it can be done with some adjustments to the bike "as is". I'll let everyone know what their response is, if any. I'm very happy with the bike's speed the way it is, but my WIFE is pushing me to find a way to increase the maximum speed up to a blazing 25 mph. "Born to be wild...

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sixpax2k9
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

Well all I can say is.. on MY xb600 it does absolutely nothing to my speed unless the gray wires are attached. However, without detailed diagrams or actually following all the wires etc. (which I likely will NOT be doing) it is impossible to say for sure that it will or wont affect anything.

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Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

Buzzer
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

What are you attaching the gray wires to? Each other, the speedometer, or some other part of the circuit?

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hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

The pot is wired on one side to the green signal wire and the black negative wire coming from the throttle. On the other side it is connected to the controller. I can't see why the gray wires would need to be connected on my bike for it to work. The pot is just a resistor. The green wire from the throttle is the top of the pot, the black wire from the throttle is the bottom and the wiper wire is green again connecting back to the controller.

Buzzer
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

Here is Xtreme's explanation when I asked about the gray wires and the potentiometer:

"That gray wire is a child safety switch. That will make you go slower."

To which I say, "Huh?"

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JamesS
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

Yes you can limit the speed. The pot in the circuit is to adjust how linear the throttle is. If it is not broke. don't mess with it or worry about it.

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JamesS

Buzzer
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

Yeah, I just thought it was odd terminology to call the gray wire and pot a "child safety switch", when it's buried inside the dash console, children aren't supposed to be driving the XB-600 anyway, and it's not really a "switch" as I think of a switch. I was looking for an explanation from X-Treme as to why the gray wires aren't connected to anything, or what they would be connected to if there was some benefit in doing so. Strange.

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There are three kinds of people: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

hguido1
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Re: Gray Wire Circuit Results

JamesS wrote:

Yes you can limit the speed. The pot in the circuit is to adjust how linear the throttle is. If it is not broke. don't mess with it or worry about it.

Like JamesS said just turn the pot all the way clockwise and you will have the max speed the bike can offer.

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