Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

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R
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I've been thinking about the belt transmission which, by this moment, is being planned for the new vectrix evolution.
No noise, less friction, less cost, I guess we'll be happy to say goodbye to the metallic, noisy gears... to the unbearable crazy whining.

Apart from upgrading my vectrix to lithium, I'd love to upgrade my V to a completely new silent transmission, but how?
One possibility could be an ugrading kit where the engine would be placed inside the rear swing arm. I'm using the sample of a silverwing where, marked in red, you can see a suitable place to dispose the engine inside the vectrix's swing arm with the belt transmission... yes, the vectrix would be longer, but more stable, and more handly in sharp winding roads. Any more ideas?

silverwing06_portada.jpg
silverwing06vectrix engine2.jpg

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

Really? The noise bothers you? If the thing got much quieter I might actually hit pedestrians. I love the setup of this bike. No chain to clean and no belt to break. That was the selling point for me. A bike I would NEVER have to take in for service. Well, we will see.

-Randy

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

I love this transmission noise it is like the electric bike in the latest star trek Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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R
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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

How lucky man you never experienced this defective gerarbox's noise:
It can be simply unbearable: have a look at this post:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/4592-vectrix-gear-noise-driving-me-crazy

With less noise the bike would become like a bicycle. pedestrians will get used at silent motorbikes and cross carefully, or they will be ruled down by Darwin's law! Only carefull pedestrians will survive...

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

yeah, when I let someone drive/test my V, I stick around to listen, I kick on it! Especially around 100km/h!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

Keep in mind that efficiency will be loosed with any other kind of transmission...

R
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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

Keep in mind that efficiency will be loosed with any other kind of transmission...

I don't get you at all... you mean the gearbox transmission is the most efficient transmission that can be engineered in a vectrix?
I personally believe that the efficiency you are talking about is already lost inside the gearbox.
With the noisy metalling gears, my vectrix hardly ever surpassed the 60 km of range. After the engine-gearbox replacement my range increased up to 80 km, using the same battery. Now my gears are getting noisy again, and my range is decreasing. Do you think the present transmission is really efficient?
In my opinion the belt transmission will have fewer parts in movement, and will not be twisted-misaligned by a deep bump in the road.
However, it would not be the best solution: I'd rather prefer a gear-less engine directly placed inside the wheel, but I'm afraid that the present technology is not capable of building an engine like that at an affordable cost...

The belt transmission in a vectrix is not an entirely new thing. It was tested with the vectrix superbike.
but in this case the engine was placed outside the swing arm, inside the main frame. there were two transmissions!

.vectrix superbike under.jpg

IMG_2641.jpg

Have you ever wondered what kind of battery there was inside this superbike? have a look at the schematics:
Two layers of cells! I truly believe there was two layers in parallel of lifepo4 GP cells of 30 Ah, totalling 128v 60 Ah, exactly the 7.5kwh officially announced everywhere...
vectrix Electric-Superbike-2_r.jpg

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

R wrote:

Keep in mind that efficiency will be loosed with any other kind of transmission...

I don't get you at all... you mean the gearbox transmission is the most efficient transmission that can be engineered in a vectrix?
I personally believe that the efficiency you are talking about is already lost inside the gearbox.
With the noisy metalling gears, my vectrix hardly ever surpassed the 60 km of range. After the engine-gearbox replacement my range increased up to 80 km, using the same battery. Now my gears are getting noisy again, and my range is decreasing. Do you think the present transmission is really efficient?
In my opinion the belt transmission will have fewer parts in movement, and will not be twisted-misaligned by a deep bump in the road.
However, it would not be the best solution: I'd rather prefer a gear-less engine directly placed inside the wheel, but I'm afraid that the present technology is not capable of building an engine like that at an affordable cost...

The belt transmission in a vectrix is not an entirely new thing. It was tested with the vectrix superbike.
but in this case the engine was placed outside the swing arm, inside the main frame. there were two transmissions!

Have you ever wondered what kind of battery here was inside this superbike? have a look at the schematics:
Two layers of cells! I truly believe there was two layers in parallel of lifepo4 GP cells of 30 Ah, totalling 128v 60 Ah, exactly the 7.5kwh officially announced everywhere...

I never had any kind of noises from gearbox. Theoretically the motor inside the wheel provide the best efficiency possible, if... of course, well done.
I think that the planetary system gearbox is an intelligent system. Maybe the implementation and the materials are not the best in this case... It seems that I'm just a lucky guy with a good gearbox, but I recognize that many people are experiencing problems.
The superbike uses the belt because it needs maneuverability. Motors inside wheels have big efficency but bad maneuverability. Cannot join the good from the two options, I'm afraid.

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

R wrote:

Keep in mind that efficiency will be loosed with any other kind of transmission...

I don't get you at all... you mean the gearbox transmission is the most efficient transmission that can be engineered in a vectrix?
I personally believe that the efficiency you are talking about is already lost inside the gearbox.
With the noisy metalling gears, my vectrix hardly ever surpassed the 60 km of range. After the engine-gearbox replacement my range increased up to 80 km, using the same battery. Now my gears are getting noisy again, and my range is decreasing. Do you think the present transmission is really efficient?

The present transmission uses straight cut gears.
its the most efficient option, though also the loudest.
the quieter your transmission the less efficient it is

R wrote:

In my opinion the belt transmission will have fewer parts in movement, and will not be twisted-misaligned by a deep bump in the road.
However, it would not be the best solution: I'd rather prefer a gear-less engine directly placed inside the wheel, but I'm afraid that the present technology is not capable of building an engine like that at an affordable cost...

have a look at this hub motor:
http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac/product.php

combine with a 144v 400A kelly (or 120v 600A) and you have lotsa power.

Matt

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Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

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Re: Engine placement in Vectrix 250 2010

R wrote:

One possibility could be an ugrading kit where the engine would be placed inside the rear swing arm. I'm using the sample of a silverwing where, marked in red, you can see a suitable place to dispose the engine inside the vectrix's swing arm with the belt transmission... yes, the vectrix would be longer, but more stable, and more handly in sharp winding roads. Any more ideas?
/>

According to Wikipedia
the engine for the Silverwing is probably not located in the swing arm see;
"The more advanced and expensive maxi-scooters differ have their engines mounted on the frame, as opposed to the swing-arm"

I own a 125cc belt driven honda scooter w/engine on the swing arm and it has a gear box in the hub but I've never heard it over the noise of the engine.

I figured out theoretically you could relocate the motor into the rear part of the battery box that would drive a pulley that would in turn drive the rear wheel using chain drive, see the drawings.

conversion.PNG
conversion-.PNG

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