Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled to the useful capacity

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R
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Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1414

4 Vectrix took part in a curious experiment. They made a trip together from Barcelona to Sant Feliu de Codines. 42 km, +400m gained uphill.

All four started with full charge from the same place. All four bikes made the trip together, travelling at around 70 km/h.

Two bikes finished with 7 bars in the gauge, one vectrix with one bar, and another one with 0 bars and the red battery light turned on. Interestingly, Two vectrix have damaged batteries, the other two have acceptable batteries, with 40% more capacity. You will argue that the state of charge of each vectrix could be different, that there could be misalignments between battery and computer, and so on: yes, you are right, but please don't focus on precision, just in the conclusion:

Because the battery gauge is automatically scaled to the useful capacity of the battery, a driver cannot realize that his bike has less than expected range unless it is compared to another vectrix with a good battery.

In consequence, many of you are not aware that you have damaged batteries with reduced capacity. These batteries should be replaced under warranty (20% of capacity loss means that the battery is out of order), however we need an impartial method to state that the battery is damaged and it should be replaced. Any ideas?

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HarryS
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Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

I don't want to disagree with you. However, all of you made 40km or roughly 25 miles which isn't so bad. I typically don't get much more, may be 28miles. Second, it is really important that all bikes had previously been fuly discharged and therefore the state of charge reset. It is possible that two of the bikes went through weeks of partial recharges and hence dont charge fully. Not second guessing you here but if you like this to be a valid experiment, I suggest to drive all four bikes until teh crawl, recharge and empty once again this time until the red light comes on. Now, upon a full recharge, go out on your fun ride together. BTW, make sure you each carry the same handicap, i.e. weight with you.

michaelt
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Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

40k is c---p, refer to your Vectrix manual and reports of others on this forum who report 40-45 miles (65-70k's). I have lived w 40k's since new and it really annoys me and through my dealer will be lodging a warranty claim (when he can figure out where to do it).

Operating under constant speed conditions our
data indicates the following averages:
Constant Speed Range
25 mph (40 km/h) 65 miles (105 km)
35 mph (56 km/h) 54 miles ( 87 km)
40 mph (64 km/h) 48 miles ( 77 km)
45 mph (72 km/h) 44 miles (71 km)
50 mph (81 km/h) 36 miles ( 58 km)
60 mph (97 km/h) 20 miles ( 32 km)

HarryS
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Joined: 10/08/2008
Points: 341
Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

I personally think that going over 30miles in real world driving is a challenge. I live in a hilly part of the world and can't get out of the neighborhood without climbing. I am happy to go 28miles reliably. I don't think there are many owners out there who go 40 or even 45 miles in real world driving. Best of luck with that warranty claim. I'd rather get an option to pay for a battery upgrade. I would be satisfied with a 45Ah LifePo4 pack which will give me about 45-50 miles of range. That's all I need.

R
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Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1414
Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

Operating under constant speed conditions our
data indicates the following averages:
Constant Speed Range
25 mph (40 km/h) 65 miles (105 km)
35 mph (56 km/h) 54 miles ( 87 km)
40 mph (64 km/h) 48 miles ( 77 km)
45 mph (72 km/h) 44 miles (71 km)
50 mph (81 km/h) 36 miles ( 58 km)
60 mph (97 km/h) 20 miles ( 32 km)

I managed to travel over 95 km with a single charge, at a speed hanging around 40 - 45km/h, and +100m uphill. By this moment the red light turned on, which means I could have traveled 5 km more at cralwling speed (but didn't want to stress the battery).
The local dealer once decided to test the range, and also managed to hit 90 km at 50 km/h
I can easely reach 70 km riding at normal speed of 60-70 km/h. I can assure you that the oficial averages stated by michaelt are correct.

Of course, hilly conditions change the range, as more energy is lost into heat during uphilling.

Mik
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Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

michaelt wrote:

...
...and through my dealer will be lodging a warranty claim (when he can figure out where to do it).
...
...

Well, he better figure it out soon, because the deadline is approaching fast!

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R
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Points: 1414
Re: Damaged Battery: Display gauge is automatically scaled ...

It seems that Vectrix's dealers have a computer diagnostic software to diagnose the capacity of the battery.

However, Magendaz experienced a suddent drop of range. He tested the cells and there was one cell at 0 volts.
One cell has a capacity impact of 1%, the capacity would drop from 93% to 92%. The capacity would be still ok for the computer, but the range would be reduced by 50%-70%. 1% of drop in capacity drops the range by 50-70%!!!!!!!
How should a Vectrix dealer proceed in this cases?

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7834-shunting-damaged-battery-cells#comment-44922

Okay, power and range definitely seem to be restored. I just went 30 miles with lots of hills, acceleration, and freeways trying to see if I could cause an overtemp, "buSULt" warning, or early battery light. The bike performed well, just as it had before the blown cell.

More info:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7955-any-battery-failures-new-software#comment-45619

That is one of the characteristics of a good cell, it releases a large proportion of it's charge at high current, whereas the damaged cell retains a lot of it's charge which can only be discharged very slowly.

It appears like the damaged cell does not charge as efficiently as the others. If self discharges faster, but it also charges slower, so it falls further and further behind, and gets hotter and ages quicker and falls behind faster and faster.....

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