220V Charging

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oobflyer
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When I bought my Vectrix I was told that I can use either the 110V or the 220V outlet to charge. I would need an adapter, but I was wondering if anyone has tried this. The dealer told me that it wouldn't change the charging time, but provides more charging options.
I'm in the U.S. where the standard is 110V/60Hz, but I would like to try the 220V charging at an RV park one time, while on a longer ride...

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AndY1
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Re: 220V Charging

We, in the EU charge at 220V-230V. Charge time is the same, only the current draw is (1/2)lower (aprox 7.5A).

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

your dealer is correct, it won't change the charge time.

the 220v at the RV park - is it 220v single phase? or 220v phase to phase?

doesn't really matter either way.
incidentally, your charger will run cooler on 220v.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Mik
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Re: 220V Charging

antiscab wrote:

your dealer is correct, it won't change the charge time.

the 220v at the RV park - is it 220v single phase? or 220v phase to phase?

doesn't really matter either way.
incidentally, your charger will run cooler on 220v.

Matt

But only cooler until charging is over.

After the end of charging 0.5A or so continue to get drawn, which equates to double the energy (and double the heat) on 240V.

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R
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Re: 220V Charging

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 220v the charger will get less hot and less stressed?

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

the power factor of that 0.5A draw must be very low.

the kwh meter i use for measuring how much my vectrix uses measures down to 0.1kwh
over the past hour, with the vectrix plugged in on standby, the dial hasn't moved noticeably.

so the continuous loss is probably less than 15w at 240v.

ill leave it running, see how long it takes to use 0.1kwh.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

AndY1
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Re: 220V Charging

Mine is at aprox. 45W. (230V here)

Mik
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Re: 220V Charging

Just have a feel how hot the charger gets - it's almost too hot to touch after a few hours of doing nothing. That cannot be good for the electronic components in there!

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antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

thats true.

on a similar train of thought,
has anyone found a decent mains timer?

all the ones i can find "trip out" when they try turn on the vectrix charger. even though they are rated to 10A, the ~7.5A the vectrix charger pulls is obviously too much
im trying to find one rated to 15A, since i suspect it will be better built.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

procrastination inc
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Re: 220V Charging

Is it legal to use the off peak circuit of your house hold supply to charge your EV?

Built in off timer there :)

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

nope, thats perfectly legal.
and a brilliant idea at that!!

its shame i don't have an off peak circuit. i do have TOU metering, but thats was for the solar eletric panels, and i have solar (with on demand gas booster) hot water.

might have one installed though.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

AndY1
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Re: 220V Charging

That's what plug timer is for.

It's for up to 3.5kW and has a weekly settings.
We have off-peak hours from 22:00 - 6:00 on a work day and a whole weekend and state holidays.

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

all the plug timers i have used really haven't liked any real loads. even the expensive digital ones :(

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

oobflyer
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Re: 220V Charging

The weather is getting warm and again I'm toying with the idea of switching from the 110V to the 220V charging. I never did find an adapter -- I think I can make one myself, but I'm still a bit concerned about it. Has anyone with a 110V Vectrix (e.g. in the U.S.) ever tried it? If so, did you have any problems? Did you make your own adapter?

It would look something like this:

photo.jpg

Spaceangel
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Re: 220V Charging

oobflyer, Did you use Hot to Hot or Hot to Neutral? In order to get electricity to NEMA 5-15 outlet. We have charging sites here in New Hampshire and it too is 220 volt NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 6-20 so I made extension cord adapters but never wanted to try putting 220 on the 110 volt plug as of yet. I do it at the charge site with my laptop for it "clearly " Says 100-250 volts input.
A lot of air conditioner plug are near doors so the smaller 220 volt outlets are good but still I never tried it. I bought a spare charger to try last month and will hook it up first. On 220 that is.

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oobflyer
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Re: 220V Charging

I'm not sure how the adapter in the photo is wired -- I paid someone to make it for me when I first got my Vectrix (they don't make them anymore). I took it with me to a public charging station that has the 14-15 outlet to try it -- only to find out that the station wasn't 'hot'. When I called the city officials to ask about it they had no idea what I was talking about... so I never got to try it. The 220V outlet in my garage is the 10-30R configuration. I would like to try it to see if I can charge up with less heat. But, I'm paranoid! I've had no problems with my bike and hate to take an unnecessary risk -- but then again if I can do cooler charges and extend the length of the battery pack, why not?

I noticed another post on the blog today about Vectrix USA service -- maybe I'll give them a call!

Screen shot 2010-05-06 at 8.46.44 PM.pngScreen shot 2010-05-06 at 8.51.38 PM.png

Mik
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Re: 220V Charging

oobflyer wrote:

I'm not sure how the adapter in the photo is wired -- I paid someone to make it for me when I first got my Vectrix (they don't make them anymore). I took it with me to a public charging station that has the 14-15 outlet to try it -- only to find out that the station wasn't 'hot'. When I called the city officials to ask about it they had no idea what I was talking about... so I never got to try it. The 220V outlet in my garage is the 10-30R configuration. I would like to try it to see if I can charge up with less heat. But, I'm paranoid! I've had no problems with my bike and hate to take an unnecessary risk -- but then again if I can do cooler charges and extend the length of the battery pack, why not?

I noticed another post on the blog today about Vectrix USA service -- maybe I'll give them a call!

Screen shot 2010-05-06 at 8.46.44 PM.pngScreen shot 2010-05-06 at 8.51.38 PM.png

The battery gets the same DC current no matter what you feed into the charger. The charger might however have a better life expectancy with a different AC voltage supply. I do not know enough about it, though.

I would guess that at 220V the heat during actual charging might be reduced (but only in the charger, not the battery). But this is probably canceled out by the worsened power wastage and heating of the charger in standby mode on 220V.

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JDi
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Re: 220V Charging

Take a look at your Vectrix user manual (page 44 in my copy). It says 110 - 230 volts. Now check the voltage of the outlet you want to use. In the US, it should be 240 volts between the two hot leads and 120 volts between a hot and the neutral.
I don't understand why people say 110 and 220 in the US. That's not the case. It should be 120 volts and 240 volts. Just use a multimeter to find out.

So I'm going to say no, you should not plug in your Vectrix to a U.S. 240 V outlet since it's outside the range specified in the manual.

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

JDi wrote:

So I'm going to say no, you should not plug in your Vectrix to a U.S. 240 V outlet since it's outside the range specified in the manual.

the Vectrix charger is the same as any other universal power supply.

nominal voltage range is 110vac - 230 vac as per power supply standards.
this means the real voltage range is 95vac - 265vac

i have charged my Vectrix routinely with the actual grid voltage at 260vac.

In the US:
you will only get 240v nominal if you are charging of both ends of a split-phase system, which really only happens in residential areas.

if the particular part of the grid you are on has *big* loads on the circuit, you are more likely to get the line to line voltage of 208v nominal.

none of this matters since its within the operating voltage range of the charger (95vac - 265vac)

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

oobflyer
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Re: 220V Charging

Interesting -- the whole reason for thinking about charging via 220V was because I saw that someone posted here that the higher voltage would have a lower current flow and extend the battery life due to the decreased heat.

So, the charger must have to increase the resistance to compensate for the higher voltage and maintain the same level of current to the batteries. [I=V/R] Is that right? If so, then I'll be putting more stress on the charger with no benefit to the battery pack...

Maybe I'll just stick with the 110V charging!

By the way JDi you are right -- I checked the outlets with the voltmeter -- it is 120V and 240V, not 110V/220V -- I'm not sure why everyone here says, "110V/220V".

Thanks for all the feedback/advice everyone!

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

the charger runs cooler due to the lower mains side current.
mainly its the rectifier, and boost circuit that does the active power factor correction that creates the internal ~340v dc bus. from then on in, its irrelevant what voltage you have plugged in to.

there's no improvement in battery life.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Spaceangel
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Re: 220V Charging

On the VX-1 Battery charger there is a Blue solder joint and wire,then a Red solder joint and wire, then a Brown solder joint and wire. My AC 117 VAC goes to Red and Blue. Sort of unusual color coding. I check my European chargers from West Germany and they use Blue And Brown. So Does any one in Europe and Australia taken apart VX-1 charger and ohmed out wiring? I don't know if VX-1 is universal charger or if it has to be 120 or 240 only. Now since I looked into wrecked VX-1 cable I see four wires and USA version shows one cut wire and that is Brn wire. I figure on making Brn and Blu go to NEMA 6-15 plug for public charging facility.
Top plug pin=BRN
Bottom left pin =RED
center pin is Ground
Bottom right pin =BLU
With circuit card upright.

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Spaceangel
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Re: 220V Charging

DSCN11.JPG
Plug is made in Germany
pinout is
#1=Red
#2=Blu
#3=NC
#4=Brn
#5=solid pin~blocked
Non numbered is Grn/Yel = ground connection

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Spaceangel
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Re: 220V Charging

Yay! I just got in touch with Vectrix after weeks of calling. He "Dana DeCosta" of Vectrix said yes to the adapter. He also said Italy requires the forth wire. He also checked with the rest of the staff in New Bedford. He invited me down there for the nickel tour and I just might take him up on it too. So I presume it is Red and Blue to 110 and / or 220 or as it is MA, a full 240 volt AC. That is better to have it universal so I can carry extension cord for 240 and for 120 use the outside outlet. Dana said he used to live here in Lowell in Christian Hill and knows my area. He also said for what ever reason he can and will program my VX-1 to 45 MPH. He also said he has new updated software what ever that means. I thinkx? mebbe he will program new VX-1 to do 80?
Nice to see Vectrix might be really alive again.

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oobflyer
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Re: 220V Charging

Thanks for the info! I will try this as soon as I can.

Spaceangel
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Re: 220V Charging

Please call Dana DeCosta and verity what I quoted. I do have many German power supplies and they use Blue and Brown to AC plug. I have taken apart VX-1 charger and see wires from AC plug do go to RED + BLUE.. I ohmed it out a verified it. I just want to drive down to New Bedford next month and get my VX-1 programmed to go SLOW. I will also ask Dana if I can put in a 50 Mv shunt and 250 amp meter to monitor current on driving, regen, and AC charging. So again call Dana and verify vs verifry. Dane also said I can charge via my truck DC pack of 144 volt and my neighbors MR-2 192 volt car.
I just don't understand the strange color code.

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AndY1
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Re: 220V Charging

So Vectrix can also be charged with DC on the plug, not only AC?

antiscab
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Re: 220V Charging

AndY1 wrote:

So Vectrix can also be charged with DC on the plug, not only AC?

In theory, yes, though I haven't tried it out with my Vectrix.

all switchmode power supplies can run on DC aswell as AC

Though note:
to be able to run at full power, the DC voltage should be above 1.414*minimum AC voltage, or in this case ~130V.
most will be able to run below this at reduced power though.
running at full power below that voltage risks failure of the input rectifier.
that can be avoided by connecting your DC supply directly to the chargers DC bus.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

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