2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

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heinzmanncarrier
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Joined: 01/20/2010
Points: 4

i'm a total noob to the whole electrics-scheme, but i have a sweet nijland sunny transporter-trike,
currently fitted with the heinzmann 24volts brushed&geared pedelec system.
but it's a bit heavy for this voltage, now i found a bigger heinzmann hub at work,(i work for a company that supplies wheelchairs, scootmobiles
and other stuff for people with impairements) i suspect it's a 36volt
hub, also brushed&geared, because it's wider, and it has a steel gear.
it just says "heinzmann" 3 times on one side, and there's a number between the spokeflanges.
now i might be a bit overzeallous, but i want to convert the trike to 3x3 drive, so i'm after 2 identical
heinzmann fronthub-motors that i will lace and replace the frontwheels with,
but can i run two of these motors, (or even better, all 3 of them!) on one controller,
for instance one of those cheap china brushed e-bike controllers?
and is it as simple as let's say ;i find two 350 watt, 30amp fronthubs, so i'll need a 700-1000 watt,60 amp controller,
and split the wires going to the motor in two to feed the two motors?
and is there a place where i can deduct the lineage, type and tech.specs of my new 36volt heinzmann hub?
it doesn't look like any motor i've evr seen before, it doesn't have the two triangular stickers in the side with the voltage, amps and watts info.
if anyone could help me out, that would be great.
great forum by the way, already broadened my horizons loads!

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denito
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Joined: 03/18/2010
Points: 3
Re: 2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

I think as long as they are brushed motors, you're in luck. (I.e. there must be 2 and only 2 wires going to the motor!) As long as they're the same kind of motor, or reasonably similar, you should be able to just wire them all in parallel. The controller will see it as one motor with 3 times as much current draw, so your biggest concern will be finding a controller brute enough to take on the current draw. Be aware that with them in parallel you could overload your controller if any of the 3 wheels becomes stuck or develops a short.

The other configuration, wiring them all in series, can work if you provide more input voltage, but I don't recommend it. It is somewhat safer, but you'll get hardly any torque that way.

I'm actually building an e-bike with multiple hub motors too, but in my case they are brushless motors so I can't simply parallel them. I'm planning to design and build my own custom controller.

PJIII
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Joined: 03/26/2010
Points: 82
Re: 2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

I did a little research for us both----it takes a multi-channel controller to run multi-motors---one channel/ each motor---that is how you can deal with three throttle signals. (to my knowledge all the common bike controllers are single channel)And, unless the controller can or will balance the RPM's would depend on a smart & programable controller.

On the other hand, you could just try it by connecting all three motors to the same throttle & controller & find out what happens. I know an R/C guy did it with two & got away with it.--good luck!

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Cyclone 650 watt 24V trike

PJIII
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Joined: 03/26/2010
Points: 82
Re: 2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

I do not recommend you use only one controller. If the motors were brushless the Hall Effect sensors in the motors come into play & the controller would be confused as by the three different Hall signals it got. If the motor & controller are brushed types then I think paralleling the motors may work provided you can work out how to balance the throttle signals because using one throttle, at any one position will have to give 3 different signals to the controller over the same circuit so it can send 3 slightly different amounts of power to each motor so that each motor's RPM'S are exactly the same. What I am saying is that it is something to consider & it IMHO is what I think. Another thing is if the controller fails you are completely dead in the water. I know that Cyclone uses separate controllers for each motor in their twin setups. Also, consider all the batteries you will have to carry.

I am not trying to discourage you I just don't want you to fail because that is a lot of work you are talking about.

There are others more knowledgeable than me so keep asking.

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Cyclone 650 watt 24V trike

heinzmanncarrier
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Joined: 01/20/2010
Points: 4
Re: 2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

wow....that's a lot of stuff to consider.
i have decided on two things though, i'm gonna hook up the original 24v heinzmann rearwheel motor to an analog 36volt controller (if i can find one) and i'm dropping the bulkier older (but never used) one i found at work.
that'll win me some speed, and then, for my next feat, i will attempt to run two identical frontwheel hubmotors
on one controller, and with only one throttle, by paralelling the two to the dc output of said controller, so that i'll have the rearthrottle on the right side of the handle-bar, and the throttle for both front wheels on the left.
providing i find all these items at work, they will be brushless, and probably heinzmann, because they manufacture most electric drives used in my line of work.
so, anyone interested in a big heinzmann rear hub motor? and ehm...does anyone know where to get one of those oldfashioned heinzmann 36v analog controller?
i've been looking around for anything that might be cheaper and compatible, but no company that sells these cheap chinese e-bike controllers could tell me if if would work, so i guess i'll just have to track down the real thing.
thanks to all you guys for helping a boob out, this stuff has been very useful and educational sofar, and there's loads more to learn, that's just awesome.
if anyone needs advice on wheel-lacing, spoke patterns or spoke length calculations, ask away, that's what i know about.
if any more progress is made, i'll post it here, thanks again.

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PJIII
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Joined: 03/26/2010
Points: 82
Re: 2 or more motors on one throttle and controller set-up

I like your thinking w/ a split throttle for the two front wheels & one separate throttle for the single wheel. I think you are getting closer every day. These bikes are a project & require a lot of thought & planning but it is worth it! I think you should look at my thread hereTHREADIt is about an emergency cut off switch--you need one in case something goes WRONG!!!

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Cyclone 650 watt 24V trike

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