Hesketh web site

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VectrixAddict
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Unfortunately the post anouncing the new Hesketh site has gone a bit off topic, but some concerns were raised which some may think are worthy of discussion. Personally, I think it is worrying that the uk importer can possibly allow copy such as this to appear on their website: (From the FAQ page):
" The bikes have a capasity of 3.7 Killer watt per hour, assuming you pay a standard rate for your electricity supply the bike willnot cost you more than a penny per mile."

And I think we should be very concerned that the site also advises us to treat our batteries in a way that is completely different to all previous advice from Vectrix including the user manuals. Unless ther has been a total rethink on NIMH batteries, it appears that Hesketh are advising us to destroy our Vectrixes!

Everything I have seen about Hesketh leads me to think that they are not really a serious business. And that, I think is worrying for both Vectrix owners in the UK and for GP batteries, the new owner of Vectrix.

Fair comment?

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R
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Re: Hesketh web site

Everything I have seen about Hesketh leads me to think that they are not really a serious business.

I remember how my vectrix behaved with the "May 2007" firmware. It was designed so poorly that its main purpose was to destroy the V's battery,leaving at the same time the rider with zero range (after one month of usage my vectrix got the battery empty with 14 bars, and getting worse after every charge..., I got no way to reset the battery gauge!!)...

Hesketh lacks electrical experience. Give them an opportunity. After dealing hard with electrical nightmares and phantoms, they will be able to give nice advices... of course, it would be nice if HesKeth corrects now the mistakes about vectrix care found in their web..

Buzby
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Re: Hesketh web site

No - I don;t think it is a 'fair' comment.

ANY website is always a work-in-progress. I seriously doubt anyone with a VX1 would be misled by what is there, as we all learn in the saddle, and would take what or provided documentation states over that on a web-page. Would you prefer Hesketh were not doing anything and we were left to fend for ourselves? It's like complaining about the new colours and stripes on the 'new' models. I don;t personally like them, but I'm not going to slag them off because of it.

I have just had my first service, everything on the bike was as it should be - some tightening here and there, but no concerns with the tyres, battery, brakes - so I'm set (hopefully) for many more years of trouble-free riding with electricity.

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VectrixAddict
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Re: Hesketh web site

Well call me old fashioned, but I expect someone setting themselves up as an importer to provide sound and good information to their customer base.

Writing semi-illiterate, misleading, gobbledegook on their own website and providing advice that can cause owners to damage their bikes looks like really bad business practice to me. And that IS fair comment.

Luckily we can for now rely on Ex Vectrix independent service people who know what they are talking about. At least in the UK.

On the evidence of his website, Mr Hesketh doesn't seem to know his ar*e from his elbow. And If I was GP Batteries I would be worrying about that.

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VectrixAddict
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Re: Hesketh web site

Actually, having read Miks post on the other thread on Hesketh MC, I am now actually feeling quite angry about what Mr Hesketh is doing; I quote Mik:

"The advice by Hesketh to "1. Try to use the full capacity of the battery whenever possible." is dangerous nonsense. Very plain and simple wrong and dangerous! It will simply lead to every charge ending in a reduced power crawl to the charging station, which by itself is not safe on the roads and puts the rider at risk of getting killed or hurt. What this wrong advice will do, if followed, is that it keeps the Vectrix range predictable, and the customer complaints low, for the warranty period. But it will age your batteries much faster than shallower cycling."

Not good. I think we should be worried, very worried.

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Aircon
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Re: Hesketh web site

I am getting so confused about all this charging stuff.

is opportunistic charging good or bad?

VectrixAddict
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Re: Hesketh web site

Exactly my point. The last thing we need is the (potential) UK importer puuting out misleading information.

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AndY1
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Re: Hesketh web site

Aircon wrote:

I am getting so confused about all this charging stuff.

is opportunistic charging good or bad?

It is good :-)

Buzby
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Re: Hesketh web site

You must be a professional 'Mr Angry' or have issues that wind you up where cutting some slack can pay dividends. When Vectrix folded, I didn't wring my hands looking for someone to blame and somehow mitigate my loss. The bike is incredible, and I remain confident that it will ultimately succeed - what will not is the range of current 'competitors' with low-powered chinese 'alternatives'. Sure they may be using better battery technology, but have precious little else.

As for personalising this into a blame game with Mr Hesketh - sorry, you;ve lost me there too. You expect him to have amassed the knowledge of Vectrix the moment to took on the UK distributorship? I might be nice if he did - but I know many MD's that haven;t a clue on the nuts and bolts of their product (they have staff for this) whilst they deal with the money men and politicians and keep the name in the public eye. I've never met Mr H, but he has had the foresight to put his money where his mouth is, and for that I thank him unreservedly.

The person I most trust with the knowledge of Vectrix is formaer Vectrix UK's Steve Scott - and Hesketh are using his EV Services company to keep the VX1 running. Perhaps they should bring him in-house so that Hesketh becomes a full-service entity, but at the moment he's doing all the required servicing and providing parts, which to my mind (being an interested party) is just the service I want.

If you;ve lost faith in Vectrix, that's your perogative. But for those of us who have followed the brand and still feel a warm glow after plugging up after a long ride - it'll take a lot more than you seeing assurances that your views are 'fair', to make an ounce of difference.

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R
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Re: Hesketh web site

Buzby wrote:

You must be a professional 'Mr Angry'

I Completely agree. Vectrixaddict is a kind of Marcopolo II. For me Vectrix is a techlogical miracle. Every time I ride it I'm really grateful to all those people who, despite all their early mistakes, made the miracle come true.

VectrixAddict
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Re: Hesketh web site

Hi. My point is simply this.

Anyone setting themselves up as an importer or marketing Vectrixes (or any other product or service) has a responsibility to their market. As we have seen, Mr Hesketh provides advice that is not only misleading, but also likely to cause any unwary Vectrix owner ( and there are plenty on here who ask questions about charging procedures) to damage their Vectrixes batteries.

Apart from being an expensive disaster for the owner, it is as also, someone else pointed out on here, POTENTIALLY LETHAL. I think anger is not an unreasonable response to that.

If you set yourself up in business you should at least know your product before you start publishing on the world wide web. Cutting slack is not appropriate when lives and our investments are at stake. It is not in our intereset to have an amateur running the UK importer. It will put people off buying and undermine the reputation of Vectrix. What's needed is someone who knows what they are doing, and has the intelligence to check what they are publishing with an expert (like Steve Scot) before it is published.

If he was really interested, he'd be on here saying sorry and clearing up the misinformation he has broadcast to the world. This chap has no record in the motor trade or in electric vehicles. His only connection is that his surname happens to be the same as that of a failed minor motorcycle manufacturer (and member of the aristocracy) whose bike was generally recognised to be very poor indeed.

Only time will tell whether this is good for Vectrix and by extension good for us. Meanwhile I think it right to agitate for something better.

Tell you what, I think the national press would be interesetd in this.

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marcopolo
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Re: Hesketh web site

R wrote:
Buzby wrote:

You must be a professional 'Mr Angry'

Quote:

I Completely agree. Vectrixaddict is a kind of Marcopolo II. For me Vectrix is a techlogical miracle. Every time I ride it I'm really grateful to all those people who, despite all their early mistakes, made the miracle come true.

You never cease to amaze! From the beginning of the Vectrix saga, you disputed the accuracy of all the information I posted. The fact that time has subsequently proved the accuracy of that information, doesn't faze you ! You remain my sole detractor.

To this day, I am still numerically the largest owner of Vectrix units(fleet). My dispute was never with the original designers, or early pioneers like Alex Bamberg, Dr Wolfgang Gohl, not even the product itself, (although it has many defects) etc.. My dispute was with the mismanagement of Mike Boyle, and the refusal of those fans supporters, who believed that Vectrix could achieve corporate sales predictions of 35,000 units per year.

In fact, I wanted Vectrix to succeed, and was partly instrumental in defeating an attempt to sell Vectrix to a Chinese manufacturer of cheap scooters, who would have brand engineered Vectrix out of existence. Likewise it was the legal pressure organised that secured the Warranty fund. Now the future of Vectrix is still uncertain, so Distributors, like Hesketh, are very important to the Marque's survival. I agree that Hesketh should be given some latitude. I have not dealt with Hesketh, and I have no opinion of the validity or otherwise of the advice. I thought this sort of mistake a little odd, since I believe Steve Scott and some of the old VUK staff were employed by Hesketh, but I may be mistaken.

You may notice that I have no dispute with New Vectrix. I think Gold Peak secured an amazing opportunity. At a cost of less than $US5 million (plus Gold Peaks lost Vectrix investment of maybe, $US8 million), they have purchased IP and assets valued at $US 26 million, that cost $400 million to create! What Gold Peak with Vectrix is Gold Peak's business. If New Vectrix can sell a just 2000 production units per annum, (at a reasonable profit), then Vectrix can remain a sustainable niche manufacturer and recover Gold Peak's investment. Gold Peaks main concern was to avoid the possibility of lengthy warranty litigation concerning the demise of Vectrix and the role of defective batteries as a contributing factor to that demise. By rescuing Vectrix, Gold Peak are able to contain that risk liability to $US 2 Million.

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Buzby
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Re: Hesketh web site

I hear your 'point' but I certainly don't accept it as valid.

You stick to your personalisation of Hesketh as some incompetent hate-figure, then end up saying you're going to tell the 'press'. Oh, PLEASE! Unless it's another major disaster of epic proportions affecting hundreds of consumers, someone giving what you consider to be 'bad advice' would hardly get a look-in. Having been a happy owner for almost 2 years, I've forgottem most of what is in the manual, but I know what works for me.

Hell, as for potentially lethal - EVERYTHING in this life is potentially lethal. You could be hit by a tanker before any imagined shortcoming became an issue. The only time I discovered I should perhaps pay a bit more attention to V advice, was that I found the ride quite hard (on my local roads) and ran the tyres as less than the recommended pressure. I noticed no adverse road holding in wet or dry, and it was a lot more comfortable. However, my range went through the floor, almost 40% less than advertised.

You've really gone over old ground already mentoned, so I'll not make the same mistake. Save for this observation, we're ALL learning about EV usage, and we're ahead of the game for most others who simply think it 'cool'. The Hesketh Company has a good reputation and is highly regarded by all bikers I speak to (apart from yourself, of course). Without them, we'd be in the same situation as folk in Australia/NZ (until they get sorted), so the fact you're not prepared to cut them a little slack speaks volumes. Be bitter if you want to. The only person to suffer will be yourself.

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R
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Re: Hesketh web site

Hey marco, nice to hear from you again!

The fact that time has subsequently proved the accuracy of that information, doesn't faze you ! You remain my sole detractor.

Oh yeah! That's a great honour!

To this day, I am still numerically the largest owner of Vectrix units(fleet)

juas! I'm still waiting for some pictures of your nice fleet... Ok... just ONE picture can be enough.. wait a minute! does this fleet really exist?
hehehe just kidding.
Your comments about Hesketh new Vectrix and gold peak are quite clever. with GP, New vectrix may have a chance of survival. On the other hand, how is your litigation with old vectrix going?
cheers,
R

marcopolo
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Re: Hesketh web site

R wrote:

Your comments about Hesketh new Vectrix and gold peak are quite clever. with GP, New vectrix may have a chance of survival. On the other hand, how is your litigation with old vectrix going?
cheers,R

The litigation with old Vectrix, ended with the settlement of the Chapter 11 terms.

The Litigation against certain Directors personally, is currently at an early procedural stage. The first step is to obtain a ruling that any indemnification for Directors, is invalid. Not very difficult. These sort of arrangements are rarely upheld by the Judiciary. In fact, such indemnities are often viewed as evidence of prior planning to avoid the consequences of improper conduct. These cases usually drag on for years, and mostly won by the party with the most determination and deepest pockets. Mostly, the weaker side settles when it becomes too expensive and they run out of lawyers.

Sigh.. such is the cynicism of commercial litigation!

Our fleet is suffering from battery woes. Vectrix owners seem to fall into two categories, those who love to explore the technology and become experts at deep charging, etc.. and those who are disappointed that Vectrix is a bit like a classic Jaguar, terrific when going well, but temperamental and not terribly user friendly. The main problems seem to be software and battery related problems.

This is why the advice from anti-scab, Mik, JDH, and others is so very valuable. I, for one, am grateful for all the knowledge these guys unselfishly provide. I was hoping that Hesketh may become a source of technical advice. The re-establishment of VUSA, in New Bedford, may prove a more enthusiatic source.

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Hesketh web site

Marcopolo -

Good luck with the litigation - someone should be punished. When this is ancient history and the full story can come out I'm sure it's going to read like Enron (albeit on a smaller scale).

Start saving for Lithium. That's going to be like removing the temperamental V6 (or V8 or whatever!) from your Jag and replacing it with a state of the art modern motor. And the work will cost about the same! If you haven't spoken with New Vectrix yet start working on them to be customer #1 for LiFePO4. Drop me a PM or email if you want some ideas.

(note to R - you'll never see a photo of marco's "fleet" because (a) why on earth should he take the time to satisfy your curiosity when you berate him? & (b) it's not all in one place. I, for one, have no doubt that he has the bikes.)

----

Back to the original point of the thread. I agree that the website should be updated to better reflect the reality of these bikes (and any other bikes that they sell). History tells us that in the long run transparency and honesty is the best way to gain loyal customers. However, rather than berate Hesketh - perhaps someone who cares enough about this should reach out to them in a friendly way? How they react to a well intentioned and polite offer of help will also help to show their "true colors" (I choose to be optimistic until proven otherwise!)

Good luck!

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R
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Re: Hesketh web site

(note to R - you'll never see a photo of marco's "fleet" because (a) why on earth should he take the time to satisfy your curiosity when you berate him? & (b) it's not all in one place. I, for one, have no doubt that he has the bikes.)

Thanks for that obvious comments. let me add: C) marcopolo does not want to reveal it's identity, or d)the fleet does not exist at all. Anyway, that's a kind of sane ratlling, don't take us very seriously. ;-)

RaDy
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Re: Hesketh web site

Hesketh should try to be as accurate as possible in their website, if the Vectrix did any better then it would be a plus point for the client who bought it, but it should never try to sell the Vectrix "bloating" its possibilities because then the general feeling will be that the bike underperforms!!!
Ive always tried to be possitive about Vectrix and really believed that the product was a good one, and just because of this last reason it should survive (ive had it for a year and have built alot of confidence in it) so i could recomend it as an everyday reliable transport (for a 50km round trip 50% at 80-90km/h and 50% at 50-60km/h). Now if someone needs 70km round trip, i would be lieying if i said he could manage it. Off course its possible at 40km/h but its not being realistic at least not where i live.
So Hesketh should stick to realistic part, only then the clients for whom that reality is good enough, wont feel cheated once they get the Vectrix.

kevin smith
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Re: Hesketh web site

deto to me aswell but haden't put the kilomiters to memory

SO just to recap 44 miles that's it thats with steady riding real world test

so i think i would be right insaying if you was to buy one of these great machines

this aprox milage with aprox speeds of around 30 miles per hour max so i would pruesume that is what is on

The VECTRIX new site ?????????????????

i am just guesing that if a owner was to buy this type of scooter and didn't get the advertised range would they be able to

To take it back and say not fit for purporse.........???????????????

i wunder if this question can be awncerd quick i wonder .

i don't think so ?????????????????
kev

Buzby
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Re: Hesketh web site

No kev - 'Fit for purpose' means considerably more than not reaching a suggested mileage guide. Just as bikes (and cars) have an indication of range per gallon of fuel, in the real world you'd be hard pressed to match what they suggest. 'Real World' figures depend on a pile of variables, and in the case of the VX1, you'd need to take into account;

1) Weight of the rider (and any passengers) and payload
2) Tyre pressures
3) Speed
4) Wind Resistance
5) Terrain (hills, valleys)
6) Use of Regeneration
7) Temperature
8) Acceleration
9) Battery state

There's probably a few more I've overlooked - but anyone trying a not fit for purpose claim would be hard pressed to make anything of it. If the VX1 promised 80 mles range, but was based on riding down a path on Everest, that would be misleading, But I've managed 48 miles regularly for range, as I seldom manage to get faster than 30mph in town, so I'm pretty happy with this. Sure, we all want greater range, and I'm sure new battery packs will provide this, but for the moment - it does what I want it to do, and does it pretty well.

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