2010 4000Li

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randalson
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Electric Vehicle Mall has new 4000Lis for $4,149 plus shipping. the pic shows 16" wheels, the specs say 13. Anyone know for sure? Anyone have a new 4000 yet? When they say "Smart Charger" does anyone know what capabilities that actually means? Thanks!

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jdh2550_1
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Re: 2010 4000Li

They are 13" wheels. It's the same chassis at the 3500Li and the 5000Li.

"Smart Charger" generally just means that it's specifically matched to the chemistry and thus it knows when to switch from max charge rate down to a trickle charge rate. It might also do some form of "pulse charging" - whether that's by design or due to the pack's voltage drifting around I don't know for sure!

One important thing to note is that this bike doesn't have a BMS (battery management system). Most folks agree that a BMS is important for LFP cells (which this bike has).

Consider this just like an XM-3500Li with a possibly upgraded motor - so, track down XM-3500Li reviews and you should get a good picture of the bikes strengths and weaknesses.

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Reid250
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Re: 2010 4000Li VS xm 3500Li

As they are blowing out the XM-3500 for $2349 I would think that is a much better bargain? For $1800 you can buy a motor, batteries and controller.

jdh2550_1
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Re: 2010 4000Li VS xm 3500Li

Reid250 wrote:

As they are blowing out the XM-3500 for $2349 I would think that is a much better bargain? For $1800 you can buy a motor, batteries and controller.

I agree.

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Reid250
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Re: 2010 4000Li

This fellow is very experienced with the LiFePO4 cells and does not agree with the need for a BMS;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRISZS1l76k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eFwcdCkHN8&feature=related

randalson
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Re: 2010 4000Li VS xm 3500Li

Ya, I thought about that. I'm not mechanically and electronically inclined - (I could build a really beautiful moped out of wood...) So the down time for the upgrade and the technical issues that would arise put me off of that approach. However, I might try the 3500 and if it does the job I need done, I'm good. If not, one of youse guys would buy it, right? Heh.

wookey
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Re: 2010 4000Li

That fellow (jack Rickard) turned up recently on Endless Sphere to argue his controversial opinions on BMSes. He turned out to be an opinionated loudmouth who was very rude to all and sundry, and he failed to make a convincing argument that a BMS was not necessary. You can read the thread here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15247&hilit=rickard

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mf70
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Re: 2010 4000Li

Funny thing, with all the price pressure on laptops, manufacturers put about 25% of the cost of each battery pack into its BMS. That says something for how important they are.

Reid250
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Re: 2010 4000Li

If you watch all his videos, you will confirm your opinion of the person. However, he is a smart guy who has spent his own time and money at the bleeding edge. Some can still learn important details from the information posted. I don't agree with your conclusion of EVERYONE needing a BMS. Those who did not look after their IC vehicles need a BMS. Those with a multimeter who do a cell check for the first few charges and then every 1000 miles, probably don't.

I would be happy to have a BMS, but don't and won't pay 1/2 the price of a battery pack for one. Time will tell if this is a good philosophy? There are many X-tremes running around without a BMS. The reason they felt it necessary to go to a BMS is to prevent owners from destroying their batteries by running them down below 2.2V. The BMS cuts off the power at 2.5V to make the scoot idiot proof. Cell balancing is a side bonus to battery protection, not the main reason.

As far as a BMS in a laptop; When did they start putting LFP's in laptops? I have 3 ACER 3000 Lithium ion packs apart on my bench, all with blown BMS. The cells are all good in all 3 packs. The BMS is not available separately. ACER's BMS is sure not the solution to anything.

mrmind
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Re: 2010 4000Li

I see the X-Treme XM-3500Li has been discontinued and replaced by the X-Treme XM-4000Li. I don't want to assume anything and this forum seemed like a good place to ask. Does the X-Treme XM-4000Li also have the regen technology? I've considered buying for a while now and have tried to do my research.

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nogaselectric
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Re: 2010 4000Li

I am offering two of these same scoots for sale starting tomorrow for $2800. I can give you some real info about them. They do not go 60mph according to my gps. They will go about 52mph top speed. The range is more like 40 miles for real world riding. I could get about 80 miles maybe riding 10mph with a tail wind. Balance, handling, and braking are all good and the bike is fun to ride and even if you pay retail its a fair deal. I have a black one and a red one for sale tomorrow that are brand new except for a few miles I put on them. See my post titled three e-fun d lein sale.

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jdh2550_1
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Re: 2010 4000Li

mrmind wrote:

Does the X-Treme XM-4000Li also have the regen technology?

The XM-3500Li does NOT have regen - that's from first hand experience as an owner. As far as I know the XM-4000Li does not have regen either.

Having said that, IMO, I wouldn't rate the regen feature too high in your purchase decision. It's nice to have but not really essential. Our bikes (see sig) have regen - but the larger ones also have significantly larger battery packs. The size of the battery pack (in terms of kWh) is the single most important factor that will determine your range. Just my 2 cents worth.

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nogaselectric
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Re: 2010 4000Li

These bikes DO NOT have regen. They are pretty simple and straight forward. Regen on the scoots I build is typically good for about 5-10% of range increase according to the cycle analyst. It is not a huge increase in range, but the point is if its possible to recapture that otherwise wasted energy from braking then you should. Also that little bit might be the difference between you pushing your bike home or not. These bikes(XM, e-fun, r martin, or whatever you want to call them they are all the same) have a decent battery pack 60volt, 60 ah thundersky lithium, and you will get about 40 miles of real world riding per charge. For the money its a good bike. You can add a good bms to it if you like for about $500. I have two of these bikes going on sale tomorrow for $2800 ea.

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mrmind
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2010 4000Li

I found a link to a video here last night. After watching part of that and reading parts of various other threads here about problems with x-treme scooters I think I'm scared off as far as purchasing an x-treme scooter. I also remember calling x-treme once and not being impressed. I have emailed them twice and while they eventually got back to me I had to wait longer than I felt necessary to receive a reply.

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mrmind
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2010 4000Li

John H; I checked out your website and the bikes you offer are interesting. What do you charge for shipping? I'm in California.

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JasonTaylor
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Re: 2010 4000Li

"I found a link to a video here last night. "
Can you give me a direct link to this video? I own an x-treme and would like to know what to look out for.

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Reid250
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Re: 2010 4000Li

mrmind wrote:

I found a link to a video here last night. After watching part of that and reading parts of various other threads here about problems with x-treme scooters I think I'm scared off as far as purchasing an x-treme scooter. I also remember calling x-treme once and not being impressed. I have emailed them twice and while they eventually got back to me I had to wait longer than I felt necessary to receive a reply.

The 3500 is still available from Extreme and other sources from $2349 to $2599. The new head office (mail box it seems) is in Tacoma. Supposedly a "new" company but the same act of no customer service. I'm very happy with mine and would buy another one in a minute if this one become unrepairable.

http://www.scootercatalog.com/x-treme-xm3500li-electric-moped.html Do a google and find many sources for them. Watch eBay for them.

jdh2550_1
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Re: 2010 4000Li

mrmind wrote:

John H; I checked out your website and the bikes you offer are interesting. What do you charge for shipping? I'm in California.

Out to CA is probably in the region of $500 - drop me an email with your zip code and I can get you an actual amount.

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Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

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