Doom and Gloom

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ArcticFox2
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You guys have that "golf" oil thread wound up pretty tight - hate to be a thread breaker, so I'll start this new post.

Imagine this gloomy scenario (highly unlikely, but just think for a moment)...

What if the oil well in the gulf can't be stopped? No matter what is tried, the oil just keeps coming up. Imagine the methane hydrates start breaking loose and floating to the top. Imagine the oil on the surface getting thicker and foamy (perhaps due to a recent hurricane), washing up onto every shore in the gulf - Mexico declares an environmental disaster and points the finger at the US as being the one responsible for cleanup of its entire shoreline. Cancun is a wasteland, environmental disaster turns into a economic nightmare. Imagine this getting so out of hand that the fumes from this oil are now too much (and unsafe) and it's impossible to sail anything into the gulf for containment attempts.

The oil completely covers the entire gulf of Mexico and is now working its way around and up Florida's eastern coastline, following ocean currents. In a desperate act, the UN and other great nations volunteer to help try to block the potential for this being a global disaster by setting up huge oil containment booms across the stretch from Florida to Cuba, and from Cuba across to Mexico to try and keep the oil in the gulf waters. The oil is successfully barricaded.

This global effort is cheered on by the international/global community.

All is well, until a freak storm from the west-south-west brings with it a lightning storm into the gulf. The oil is ignited in several spots and cannot be contained. Thick, black, toxic smoke pours into the atmosphere choking out the sunlight, stopping air travel, and completely poisoning Earth's atmosphere. Mankind now realizes the err of his ways.

All land- and air-based life is finished within a decade. All sea-based life is exterminated within the century. There is no year 2100.

....

I wonder if anyone at BP (or Sarah Palin) ever thought this far ahead.

Is this story likely to happen this time? No.
Is it possible for a future to unfold like this? Yes.

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Doom and Gloom

ArcticFox2 wrote:

Is this story likely to happen this time? No.

'nuff said!

Quote:

Is it possible for a future to unfold like this? Yes.

Is it possible there's life on other planets and a space ship will land tomorrow and say "take me to your leader"?

Just askin'...

Methinks you've watched one too many disaster movies ;-)

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ArcticFox2
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Re: Doom and Gloom

jdh2550_1 wrote:

Is it possible there's life on other planets and a space ship will land tomorrow and say "take me to your leader"?

No... don't be silly, John - I keep my tin-foil hat on at all times just for that reason! :D

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

ArcticFox2 wrote:

You guys have that "golf" oil thread wound up pretty tight - hate to be a thread breaker, so I'll start this new post.

Imagine this gloomy scenario (highly unlikely, but just think for a moment)...

What if the oil well in the gulf can't be stopped? No matter what is tried, the oil just keeps coming up. Imagine the methane hydrates start breaking loose and floating to the top. Imagine the oil on the surface getting thicker and foamy (perhaps due to a recent hurricane), washing up onto every shore in the gulf - Mexico declares an environmental disaster and points the finger at the US as being the one responsible for cleanup of its entire shoreline. Cancun is a wasteland, environmental disaster turns into a economic nightmare. Imagine this getting so out of hand that the fumes from this oil are now too much (and unsafe) and it's impossible to sail anything into the gulf for containment attempts.

The oil completely covers the entire gulf of Mexico and is now working its way around and up Florida's eastern coastline, following ocean currents. In a desperate act, the UN and other great nations volunteer to help try to block the potential for this being a global disaster by setting up huge oil containment booms across the stretch from Florida to Cuba, and from Cuba across to Mexico to try and keep the oil in the gulf waters. The oil is successfully barricaded.

This global effort is cheered on by the international/global community.

All is well, until a freak storm from the west-south-west brings with it a lightning storm into the gulf. The oil is ignited in several spots and cannot be contained. Thick, black, toxic smoke pours into the atmosphere choking out the sunlight, stopping air travel, and completely poisoning Earth's atmosphere. Mankind now realizes the err of his ways.

All land- and air-based life is finished within a decade. All sea-based life is exterminated within the century. There is no year 2100.

....

I wonder if anyone at BP (or Sarah Palin) ever thought this far ahead.

Is this story likely to happen this time? No.
Is it possible for a future to unfold like this? Yes.

Very imaginative! Keven Costner or James Cameron could really use your talents!

But in reality, like most entertaining scenario's, the logistic just don't work out! The current spillage is not a happy situation. But since the planets modern era there have been vastly greater oil spillages (most natural) and all have been far too infinitesimal to create a disaster of the scale you require.

Volcanic eruptions are a far more plausible doomsday scenario.

To envelop the world, for 10 years, in the type of thick black smoke you are referring to, is beyond the capacity of all the oil well accidents in history, world-wide! For a really good disaster theory, you need some sort of viable logistics, however incredible. Say, the depletion of the world oil reserves and GW activity created a deep fissure in the earths crust, creating gotterdammerung style volcanic activity.

Better, but still scientifically absurd, but James Cameron might buy it, with enough moral twist.

I don't think Sarah Palin has thought that far ahead. I haven't seen much evidence of Sarah Palin thinking!

As for BP, problem is we, society, need Oil! Civilisation is currently dependant on oil.It's very hypocritical to abuse and despise the folks who provide the lifeblood of our civilisation, while enjoying the fruits of thier labour and risk. Hopefully, with improving technology, oil dependence will lessen and become increasingly sustainable.

BP, are like many areas of human endeavour, involved in a complex, high risk business. That is the nature of the oil industry. Like all giant corporations, BP sometimes gets it wrong, human error, technology just isn't good enough, unforeseen circumstances, storms, earthquakes, natural disasters and just plain bad luck can occur.

All of the factors are part of the Oil business. BP is one of the better oil companies,as far as environmental issues are concerned. But oil is a risky business, sooner or later disasters must occur! but humans are very optimistic creatures. How many people still live in the region of Pompeii ?

Tin Hats eh? Does that come with, or without the special antenna?

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robert93
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Re: Doom and Gloom

Ok, lets go "B Movie" with this....
As a result of all the oil flowing to the surface, not only is the pollution a threat, but, the entire gravity feild of the globe is affected. The Mid-East collapses into a volcanic sea, since the purpose of the drilling was trans-global, to syphon off those rich reserves of the mid-east. A new threat is realized as the Volcanic ash cloud and soot from the burning gulf merge, forming a new polymer layer over the entire globe. If the escape rocket doesnt leave soon with the best of humanity, they too will be shrink-wrapped for eternity. While all this is going on, some bimbo decides to make a play for the lead scientist in exchange for a seat on the escape rocket. She is so successful, that he forgets his work, blows the calculations, and all humanity is thrown away in their own quest for control of global resources. Mankind is dead, we trashed a panet, but at least we put it in a recyclable bag before we were through. :-)

Mik
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Re: Doom and Gloom

Here's a better one:

The oil spill, combined with the warm water of the gulf and the secret US weapons testing (biological?), creates an new bacterium which cleans up the oil mess in no time.

Alas, it does not stop there - the hungry critters are becoming increasingly difficult to keep out of oil supplies, then mutate further and attack petrol and diesel supplies, until only the former Soviet Union (too cold there for the bugs!) is functioning....

Everyone who lives in a moderate climate zone is forced to employ sterile filling techniques at the fuel pump....

Police are doing dragnet-style fuel infection test on cars, banning the cars with infected fuel system from refuelling.

Self appointed mobs quarantine infected cars and their drivers (by setting them on fire).

EV's are of course entirely unaffected, unlike their drivers, who need more than handguns to fend off the increasing numbers of desperate people whose ICE vehicle have been banned from refuelling.

Then, Big Oil marries Big Pharma and invents antibiotic-treated fuel....enslaving the poor motorist even more...

Etc etc etc...

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

robert93 wrote:

Mankind is dead, we trashed a panet, but at least we put it in a recyclable bag before we were through.

Not bad, but hard to do a sequel.

mik wrote:

Here's a better one; Then, Big Oil marries Big Pharma and invents antibiotic-treated fuel....enslaving the poor motorist even more...

Yeah, I like it... 'cept what happened to all the EV users? Oh, and I don't quite understand how oil freed of the bugs, would enslave people more, wouldn't it just return to the status quo?

How about; A champion karate expert, evil, ex-KGB General, joins forces with a renegade PRC security service politician, in a secret location where they recruit a coalition of terrorists including ex-Greenpeace, ex Green left activists, ex-red army faction, ex-Dick Cheney's hunting buddy's (the ones who were only wounded), and other assorted evil, but amazingly poorly trained henchmen, to effect a strategy to disrupt the world oil supplies, in order to fund not only a PLOT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD, but the world longest sentence!

Their first target has been successful! The gulf is running black with BP oil. (gloat,gloat).

But what is this!! Zounds, 'tis that cool, intrepidly suave, agent,...., racing silently to the rescue in a specially modified (by that lovable, but irascible genius 'J' of CoMoCo), Tesla super car! In no time he has entered the lair of the enemy, liberated a beauteous female, (so poor and oppressed that she owns barely any clothes), and scattering evil henchmen with witty repartee and quick one liners, he takes her by the ....For the rest of this script please send a credit card payment to Amazon Books (Nigeria)..

While I'm here, Mik if you are ever visiting Victoria, I can arrange to lend you a Blade test vehicle for a few days. I am confident you would find it a really interesting and rewarding experience!

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ArcticFox2
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Re: Doom and Gloom

"BP's top kill effort fails to plug Gulf oil leak"

Hmmm... who didn't see that coming?

Trying to plug up a well that's blowing out 1 million gallons per day (NOT 210,000) with a fluid that's twice as thick as water.

So, they tried to plug this up with something similar to milk? Gosh, I'm surprised that didn't work. LOL

Have you heard - there's now a 6 mile by 22 mile oil slick moving around UNDER the water. This was caused by the "dispersant" that was used to keep the oil from floating to the surface. Where did they think all this crud(e) was going to go? Magical fairy land, perhaps?

It really amazes me the stupidity of people. No thinking ahead? No understanding of how actions will progress into the future? WTH?

Live link to Deepwater1 ROV is here: http://mms.piersystem.com/deepwater1
Sometimes it's online.

What if the oil well in the gulf can't be stopped?

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

ArcticFox2 wrote:

What if the oil well in the gulf can't be stopped?

Truth is, Oil exploration and exploitation is entering a very dangerous marginal phase. Most of the really deep water, close to population areas, stuff, is first time knowledge.

The huff and puffing and "really, really, really, serious and sincere statements by steely eyed politicians are useless", the only value would be to stuff them down the pipe!

Eventually the oil flow will be stopped by a counter sunk new well, diverting the pressure, (and oil) to allow the old well to be permanently sealed.

The environmental damage remains horrendous, the clean-up cost spectacular! I guess the real question to be asked is at what point the environmental cost of oil becomes unacceptable, or alternatively uneconomic?

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Doom and Gloom

marcopolo wrote:

The environmental damage remains horrendous, the clean-up cost spectacular! I guess the real question to be asked is at what point the environmental cost of oil becomes unacceptable, or alternatively uneconomic?

It's the last part of that statement that is of the most interest to me - when do we start to see the true cost of oil? What, in fact, is the true cost?

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

jdh2550_1 wrote:

It's the last part of that statement that is of the most interest to me - when do we start to see the true cost of oil? What, in fact, is the true cost?

I guess it depends how you measure cost. Oil has provided very reliable economic benefits for more than a century. To a large extent oil made most of the great advances to human civilisation in the twentieth-century possible.

IMO the question is how are we going to manage the remaining reserves of this incredibly precious resource for the future? It should be evident that oil is far to valuable to be wasted as a source of for such things as automobile fuel.

Equally, the cost of marginal oil exploration/exploitation will become increasingly unacceptable and uneconomic. Since all new exploration must be increasingly marginal, governments are going to face enormous pressure to either exempt oil companies from the economic consequences of environmental damage, or face the economic/political consequences of very high oil prices.

The pain is in the conversion to other energy sources. Rabidly impractical ideological rantings, from sanctimonious alarmist fringe groups, accompanied by wild eyed fantasies of doomsday scenarios, is simply unhelpful. Equally useless is the , 'lets change the whole of society',anti-human leftist bleating by ineffectual ideologues and posturing politicians.

The change must come from practical solutions that retain the best of the existing infrastructure, while substituting new technology to replace the planets dependence on oil and fossil fuels.

Simplistic wishful thing about some kind of utopia, while ranting about the evil of resource corporations, thereby avoiding effective planning for a post-oil future, is as useless as two fleas arguing who owns the dog!

Real cost of Oil? Well, ask the residents whose environment has been destroyed by a spill, or on the other hand the ambulance patient whose ambulance has run out of petrol, and is not equipped with any of over 1600 life saving/enhancing medical products produced from oil?

So John, the true cost ain't so easy to figure!

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Re: Doom and Gloom

JDH mostly hit the mark when makes the point about the long odds, but then THIS spill was a longshot, so expect the unexpected. I live in California, where the killer quake everyone talks about as though it's "Inevitable" is actually far less likely than the spill scenario presented here. Does that mean I should make no plans at all?

I'm waiting to see what new developments for dealing with this spill repeated they come up with. If they don't come up with anything. . . .(GULP!)

Hey ArticFox, did you ever consider that hat might simply make you easier to FIND when the cannibal aliens come looking? "Hey, this one is already wearing the portable cookpot."

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

Dauntless wrote:

JDH mostly hit the mark when makes the point about the long odds, but then THIS spill was a longshot, so expect the unexpected. I live in California, where the killer quake everyone talks about as though it's "Inevitable" is actually far less likely than the spill scenario presented here. Does that mean I should make no plans at all? I'm waiting to see what new developments for dealing with this spill repeated they come up with. If they don't come up with anything. . . .(GULP!)

As more marginal oil fields are developed, the risk of spills will become more commonplace! One solution suggested is to drill Two parallel wells, one complete and functioning, the other almost complete and ready to relieve the pressure in the event of a blow-out!

Apart from the vast cost involved, and impracticality, does The Secretary of Interior really believe such asinine suggestions are of value? This is man with responsibility for Oil policy in the US !

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Dauntless
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Re: Doom and Gloom

marcopolo wrote:
Dauntless wrote:

JDH mostly hit the mark when makes the point about the long odds, but then THIS spill was a longshot, so expect the unexpected. I live in California, where the killer quake everyone talks about as though it's "Inevitable" is actually far less likely than the spill scenario presented here. Does that mean I should make no plans at all? I'm waiting to see what new developments for dealing with this spill repeated they come up with. If they don't come up with anything. . . .(GULP!)

As more marginal oil fields are developed, the risk of spills will become more commonplace! One solution suggested is to drill Two parallel wells, one complete and functioning, the other almost complete and ready to relieve the pressure in the event of a blow-out!

Apart from the vast cost involved, and impracticality, does The Secretary of Interior really believe such asinine suggestions are of value? This is man with responsibility for Oil policy in the US !

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Re: Doom and Gloom

marcopolo wrote:

Apart from the vast cost involved, and impracticality, does The Secretary of Interior really believe such asinine suggestions are of value? This is man with responsibility for Oil policy in the US !

Ummm, you're new to the musings of politcians, eh? So I'll guess you'll be shocked, SHOCKED to hear that Obama sent an advance team to cleam up a beach for his photo op, as part of his campaign to encourage tourism to the area by saying "It's not that bad, here."

Because yes, this man with responsibility for policy really believes that such asinine suggestions are of value. They consider it to be their "Political capital," to be spent on. . . .

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

Dauntless wrote:

Ummm, you're new to the musings of politcians, eh? So I'll guess you'll be shocked, SHOCKED to hear that Obama sent an advance team to cleam up a beach for his photo op, as part of his campaign to encourage tourism to the area by saying "It's not that bad, here."

Because yes, this man with responsibility for policy really believes that such asinine suggestions are of value. They consider it to be their "Political capital," to be spent on. . . .

Yeah, I know, you are quite right! Foolishly, I always live in hope that one, just one, might be of some value! (Sigh)!

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Doom and Gloom

marcopolo wrote:

Real cost of Oil? Well, ask the residents whose environment has been destroyed by a spill, or on the other hand the ambulance patient whose ambulance has run out of petrol, and is not equipped with any of over 1600 life saving/enhancing medical products produced from oil?

So John, the true cost ain't so easy to figure!

Actually, you're combining cost and benefit into one statement. One has to determine the true cost and the true benefit to come up with an "answer". However, one does not improve the chances of determining these true costs and benefits if one "grandstands" with emotional scenarios designed to muddy the debate.

I agree with almost all of what you say. Separating the substance of any posting from the style of the author is the key. You often put in extreme examples of the loony-left while ignoring the equally loony-right. This gives your postings a style that appears unbalanced - even though I think you and I are pretty darn close in agreeing on key principals.

Just like these last couple of posts from you and Dauntless. Sure, the political spin-doctors are working overtime. Wow, that's a pretty insightful bit of perspective - not. Now, who out there believes that BP has no spin-doctors on their payroll? Who believes that BP isn't working extremely hard to control the message as best as it can? Who believes BP will be completely and unbiasedly transparent without some external leverage or some internal advantage to do so?

I don't mean to suggest that BP is bad or good. Nor that the administration is bad or good. They both are what they are and have been molded into these forms by years of societal norms and expectations.

I'm just trying to show that when someone points at just one culprit and shouts foul it often says more about the commentator than about the issue at hand...

Wow - what a preachy post by me. I'm sorry.

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marcopolo
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Re: Doom and Gloom

jdh2550_1 wrote:

Actually, you're combining cost and benefit into one statement. One has to determine the true cost and the true benefit to come up with an "answer". However, one does not improve the chances of determining these true costs and benefits if one "grandstands" with emotional scenarios designed to muddy the debate.

One mans 'grandstand' is another's 'viewpoint'!

Quote:

I agree with almost all of what you say. Separating the substance of any posting from the style of the author is the key. You often put in extreme examples of the loony-left while ignoring the equally loony-right. This gives your postings a style that appears unbalanced - even though I think you and I are pretty darn close in agreeing on key principals.

Well, your criticism is probably valid, although to be fair, I am usually responding to leftist statements. If you read my contribution to Spectator and other right wing media, you would observe I am equally critical of the looney right. Not being a resident of the USA, I probably have less exposure to the looney right. The UK and Australian looney right are usually conservative but far more rational. Many right issues seem to be unique to the US. The OZ and UK leftist traditions are more radical,and far more vocal!

Quote:

Just like these last couple of posts from you and Dauntless. Sure, the political spin-doctors are working overtime. Wow, that's a pretty insightful bit of perspective - not. Now, who out there believes that BP has no spin-doctors on their payroll? Who believes that BP isn't working extremely hard to control the message as best as it can? Who believes BP will be completely and unbiased transparent without some external leverage or some internal advantage to do so?I don't mean to suggest that BP is bad or good. Nor that the administration is bad or good. They both are what they are and have been molded into these forms by years of societal norms and expectations. I'm just trying to show that when someone points at just one culprit and shouts foul it often says more about the commentator than about the issue at hand...

Wow - what a preachy post by me. I'm sorry.

Preachy? No,no, not at all! Very insightful and relevant. Much of the need for 'spin doctors' PR, and lawyers, has become necessary due to a media industry that has stopped informing, and become a sort of roman mob. 'News coverage' has become a sort of cruel sport. The media hounding desperate target to the delight of a baying mob, with sensationalist distortions, as a sort of entertainment spectacular. The meadia has long since abandoned any ethical standards, and now simply strives to satiate the public jaded appetite for sensationalism.

This was not what the founding Fathers envisioned in a Free Press!

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Re: Doom and Gloom

Well, doggone, I feel lucky to live in a state like California that gave Obama all kinds of money when he ran for President, so he didn't allow any new drilling off our coast. It was only the poor states that didn't have the money for him that he gave the "Drill baby drill" treatment to. Even if California's coastal oil is much safer to access than Louisiana's, and the ecosystem already largely destroyed. Of course, when Dubya was President, California didn't give him much money, so the states that did got all the Homeland Security money, while the biggest target state of all didn't, even as he came here again and again and again and drove up the expenses. There's a whole lot more to this than spin doctoring, although the people who got succored into going to Louisiana on vacation probably won't vote to reelect in 2012.

And my favorite story of political discussion is about a guy from my high school paper: He and I were the only on staff with the title 'Political Analyst.' When we were in college, he got up in front of the campus to speak on his left wing views, and one of our classmates was there to heckle him. When he ranted about the oil companies and depletion of resources, she calls out "Yeah, at this rate there won't be enough gas left for you to go to the beach every weekend." Straight out of 'Doonesbury.' Jeez, some future wife SHE was, eh? Politics doesn't make half the strange bedfellows that marriage does.

But you HAVE TO be able to deal with the people you disagree with afterwards. You HAVE TO. Or there can be no place for you in it at all. The Phoenix Suns came out against a certain new Arizona law. When they played the LA Lakers, a group picketed the game because Laker coach Phil Jackson refused to voice an opinion when they DEMANDED he make a statement opposing it because he didn't want to politicize sports. When the Arizona Diamondbacks made a statement favoring the law, these people demanded they NOT politicize sports, and in the same press conference went on to threaten the LA Dodgers if they didn't politicize sports by coming out against the law. Some people, by their mere behavior, have no place in the discussion at all. The constitution denies freedom of speech to those who use "Fighting words."

As not one but TWO little known novelists (One of them previously mentioned) have said about me; The more heated the other side of the debate becomes, the more comic my rebuttal. I'm a postmodernist. Not only do I have the answers, but I've written them into my standup act. The song from Mary Poppins goes "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." They may do a terrible job of dealing with me, but I'll remain good at dealing with them. As John Kerry once said to his surly opponent in a Senate campaign, "Sir, I will address you as a gentleman. Not because you are one, but because I am one." (And he WON.) Although, in their own way, the person I am addressing is often a bigger clown than me, he's just not as good at it.

* * *

I don't have a real problem with BP. They had an accident, as may we all. There is a huge gap between complacency and carelessness. Careless means a lack of caring, and I don't believe that was the case in this. Right now they're making dry runs with the robot saws, still getting ready to do things that haven't had to be done in real life before. When I was a kid a boyhood idol was Charles Momson, who invented things like the diving bell and successfully undertook the first ever deep sea rescue from a stranded submarine. Followed by the first ever recovery of the sub itself from that depth. The accident, and Momson's recovery efforts, inspired a whole wave of development of underwater technology, as well as the characters Admiral Nelson and Captain Crane of 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.' (At two different times of his life.) Sometimes only the worst can bring out the best in us.

The point is I judge them more by their response, and I think it's been good. I didn't think much of the damn politician with nothing more to offer than "We were expecting MIT, not PGA," when he hears about the golf balls. Hopefully, if the PGA called with some ideas on how they stop the broken water mains from destroying the courses, BP would be all ears. You never know what will make you think of something.

So I have a positive impression of BP's efforts, and a negative one for the government. BP is looking for ways to fix this, the government for ways to exploit this. BP was going to turn off the video feed for the top kill effort to spare themselves from hearing the 'Armchair Engineers' weigh in. I found that quite responsible. As a guy who likes to use quotes, I just have to add T. S. Eliot at this time: "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important." I feel we have more to gain by letting BP do the job than from interrupting them with self serving nonsense.

jdh2550_1 wrote:

I'm just trying to show that when someone points at just one culprit and shouts foul it often says more about the commentator than about the issue at hand...

And it's important that it be that way. As my friend Ernie says, "You're only pointing one finger at everyone else, the other three are pointing back at you." I prefer the Nietzsche:

'Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.'

I for one will consider every message on the strength of whomever delivers it. Often the message itself is the only thing you have with which to judge the presenter. The George Washington cherry tree story is cute, but it's beyond being mere fiction. I don't take Mason Weems, who propagated that myth and others, seriously on any of his statements about Washington. And that's a good thing, it's largely not true. Which is how he gained the nickname "Bogus Weems." Because even if George Washington couldn't tell a lie, Mason Weems sure could. He sure could.

Although, even the most untrustworthy are not always lying. In 1992, embattled 'Soon to be EXPresident' George H.(ACHE) W.(DUBYA) Bush took another blow as certain tax moves of his went public. His response was to release the full story of his 12 year battle with the IRS, and said for the TV cameras, in about so many words, that this was his effort to do what the IRS demanded. And for one brief, shining moment, I, uh, AGREED with---SOMETHING---that man did. . . .(Did someone just put itching powder down my back?)

The important thing is in your ability to do as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle told you, through Sherlock Holmes: 'When you separate all that is not true, what you are left with is, by necessity, the truth.' (That's at least close to the original statement.) If nothing much of what the person said is true, you know the person won't be truthful. Or trustworthy. Getting back to the phonied beach cleanup. . . .(Finish that thought for yourself. Make it good.)

So I will acknowledge that there were. . .ACTUAL times. . .when I, uh, AGREED with. . .both Ache and (GULP) his son (ACK!@#) Dubya (Hey, cut it out. C'mon, I mean it.) I want it to be clear that I think little of the Father and less of the Son. (Ahh, that's better.) I was able to judge the messenger correctly long before so many who were dazzled by their messages of hate and setting fire to the rest of the world and shooting anyone who tries to escape. And I expect that behavior of anyone on "Their side," and feel forced to accept it. I was in no way shocked when Dubya made his famous (And infamous) campaign promise to limit freedom as president. I expect it before it is said, I accept the unavoidability of it when he blatantly says it.

NOBODY is going to force me to accept it from what's supposed to be MY side. So when Obama says he's going so set fire to OUR homes, I really get outraged, for his blatantly saying it at all more than for the fact he means it. Not simply because I don't like what he's doing, but because he's supposed to be in that OTHER party to do it. My side doesn't get to behave that way.

Now, I would hope that my saying all that would come as no surprise to you. It should have already been clear to you in previous posts. To quote Arlo Guthrie "I've been singing this song for 25 minutes, and could keep singing another 25 minutes: I ain't proud. . . Or tired." I could go on about Potemkin villages, now there is a great comparison to the way the spill is being handled by the government. I could make the point that for all the MISCOMPARISONS that people made of the Dubya years to the novel '1984,' (If you read it, you remember that Big Brother was POPULAR) it's actually Obama who befits the analogy. Maybe I could even work the Cardiff Giant into this, afterall, it caused David Hannum to first say "There's a sucker born every minute." (The biggest succor was him, right?)

And ev'ry task you undertake
Becomes a piece of cake
A lark! A spree!
It's very clear to see
That a. . .

But if you're someone who needs the message and doesn't want to hear it, your eyes glassed over back at the beginning. . . .

. . . .And I know you don't really want to read all this. That's why I keep trying to throw SOMETHING in there as a hook. Jokes, quotes of the rich and famous, etc., just to keep you hearing what you don't want to hear. Most people, if I'm not masterful beyond words, won't read beyond the first paragraphs. And if you doubt that people are violently opposed to hearing something other than what they already believe, just try pointing out to them that it was NOT Abraham Lincoln who first said:

It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time;
you can even fool some of the people all of the time;
but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

-P. T. Barnum

Although some people want to argue that he never said it either, that it was a well known foe of his who was responding to Barnum saying "You can fool some people every time." If the three were here telling their side, some people STILL wouldn't accept it.

So, do you understand all this, now? That brain freeze didn't even cost the price of a Slurpee! I, on the other hand, am EXACTLY what the founding fathers had in mind, because 'Freedom of the Press' comes from the trial of John Peter Zenger, the John Stewart of his time. . . .

. . . .spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down,
in a most delightful way.

-from 'Mary Poppins'

Half the harm that is done in this world
Is due to people who want to feel important.
They don't mean to do harm — but the harm does not interest them.
Or they do not see it, or they justify it
Because they are absorbed in the endless struggle
To think well of themselves.

-T. S. Eliot

(Would you believe they used to PAY me to write things like this? To make their communities more interesting.)

__________________

WHo dares, WINS!!!!

marcopolo
Offline
Joined: 05/10/2009
Points: 837
Re: Doom and Gloom

Dauntless wrote:

I don't have a real problem with BP. They had an accident, as may we all. There is a huge gap between complacency and carelessness. Careless means a lack of caring, and I don't believe that was the case in this. Right now they're making dry runs with the robot saws, still getting ready to do things that haven't had to be done in real life before. The point is I judge them more by their response, and I think it's been good. I didn't think much of the damn politician with nothing more to offer than "We were expecting MIT, not PGA," when he hears about the golf balls. Hopefully, if the PGA called with some ideas on how they stop the broken water mains from destroying the courses, BP would be all ears. You never know what will make you think of something.

So I have a positive impression of BP's efforts, and a negative one for the government. BP is looking for ways to fix this, the government for ways to exploit this. BP was going to turn off the video feed for the top kill effort to spare themselves from hearing the 'Armchair Engineers' weigh in. I found that quite responsible. As a guy who likes to use quotes, I just have to add T. S. Eliot at this time: "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important." I feel we have more to gain by letting BP do the job than from interrupting them with self serving nonsense.

Those are the most sensible paragraphs I have read concerning this disaster!

A ironic feature of the whole mess is that BP, during the Lord brown years, was the most actively enviromental of the resource giants. The critisim of BP breaking the rules is a misunderstang of the very high standard BP insists upon when commisioning NEW rigs. Against usual practice, BP took a gamble on leasing an old, but legal, rig in a marginal oil field. Boy! I'll bet that's a decision that Tony Haywood regrets!

On the other hand, exactly what expertise does a lawyer from Chicago bring to Oil Spill control? However, considering unfortunate President will blamed by the media and finger waggers regardless, I suppose he must play the role and seem resolutely steely-eyed and in charge, even if he has no useful function.

Not an easy business. Not being a US resident, it is not really my place to pronounce on US politics, however although it's unlikely Geo W Bush, will go down in history as a great President, it seemed to me, he was painful honest and candid, if overly credulous and simplistic.

Both John's are quite right, allowing Dick Cheaney to restructure US resource policy was aways going to end in tears! The true role of Government is impartial regulation in the public interest for all (including corporate) citizens. Creating government owned but privately run-for- profit regulatory authorities is just a receipe for corruption and errant behaviour.

The Oil industry, and in fact all major industries with the potential for massive international environmental pollution need International Regulatory Authorities. Such regulation should include recogonition and indemnity for permitted high risk projects. These mad media witch-hunts and orgies of wasteful litgation must cease!(as opposed to the other sort of orgy, which should continue for as long as the participants ca.....What? sorry, I seem to have digressed!).

Traditionally, the less regulation and government interference in the lives of citizens, and business, the better! However when regulation is needed, it should be useful, impartial, ethical, and efficient. The tendency for such organization to expand is evidenced in the enormously over staffed EU.

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marcopolo

Mik
Mik's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/11/2007
Points: 3727
Re: Doom and Gloom

Dauntless wrote:

...
...
...
...
...
...

(Would you believe they used to PAY me to write things like this? To make their communities more interesting.)

No! That's quite unbelievable!

But maybe if they fired you for it... ;-) HAHAHA!

__________________

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marcopolo
Offline
Joined: 05/10/2009
Points: 837
Re: Doom and Gloom

jdh2550_1 wrote:

You often put in extreme examples of the loony-left while ignoring the equally loony-right. This gives your postings a style that appears unbalanced.Just like these last couple of posts from you and Dauntless.

John, the loony left has some very strange bedfellows!

Bill Clinton's former Secretary of Labour, Robert Reich’s is a real bright guy,(he must be, y'can tell by the beard)he's currently Professor of Public Policy at the Goldman School of Public Policy at the University of California, Berkeley.

Now you may wonder how this or anything else in his background would make him an expert in oil drilling technology, but he has been made a Presidential adviser on how to stop the spill!!

Curiouser and curiouser, thought Alice...

Ole Bob, he has a real bright idea! He announces his brilliant concept in a speech to launch the SEIZE BP movement:

"It’s time for the federal government to put BP under receivership, which gives the government authority to take over BP’s operations in the Gulf of Mexico until the gusher is stopped. The people involved in the BP operation have clearly failed and must be removed. This is the only way the public will know what’s going on, be confident enough resources are being put to stopping the gusher, ensure BP’s strategy is correct, know the government has enough clout to force BP to use a different one if necessary, and be sure the President is ultimately in charge.

If the government can take over giant global insurer AIG and the auto giant General Motors and replace their CEOs, in order to keep them financially solvent, it should be able to put BP’s North American operations into receivership in order to stop one of the worst environmental disasters in U.S. history.

At the least, the federal government should direct the ground cleanup. BP has no special resources for that endeavor over what the feds have access to. And the monitoring of the size of the leak should come completely out of the hands of BP, who Carol Browner admits has a financial interest in lowballing that amount, because they could be fined $4,300/barrel for what has spilled. They’ve denied the existence of the underwater plumes of which scientists have found clear evidence.

The President should nationalise BP, and take over BP’s Gulf operations. We have a national emergency on our hands. No president would allow a nuclear reactor owned by a private for-profit company to melt down in the United States while remaining under the direct control of that company. The meltdown in the Gulf is the environmental equivalent."

Robert Reich has put himself forward as the Czar of a nationised oil industry. His only suggestion as to how he would stop the spill was to anounce that the US military would "step in"!

Great! 'Cept of course the US Navy, US Army corp of Engineers stated flately that they could do no such thing! The US Navy, US Army corp of Engineers, pointed out that they have no idea how to stop the oil flow, and anyway BP already has the best and most experienced minds in the world working for them.

Never mind, ole bob's enjoying his day in the sun! The failed would-be Governor, with Bobby Kennedy delusional complex, has been enjoying himself addressing crowds of loony-left, (Well just plain loony) at SEIZE BP protest meetings!

Now. all this would be comical, 'cept for the very creditible evidence that the entire SEIZE BP concept, was conceived by a very clever Obama spin doctor, to distract attention from the governments role!

Now there's a conspiracy theory for you! Better than Dustan Hofmans movie, 'Wag the Dog'!With the added bonus of being probably true. Wouldn't be a shocking thing if all those earnest leftwing, greenie demonstrators are just being manipulated by powerful backroom aparatchiks ? Oh sorry, that's right, thats just normal SOP!!!

The President has absolutley no power to appoint a reciever to BP, such an ill-avised attmpt would only serve to turn a disaster into a catastrophy! Equally idiotic is 'SEIZE BP's demands that BP's assets be seized, and BP stop trading in order to compensate victims.

Now do you wonder why my posts seem a little more concerned with the activities of the loony left?

'Ah, Harlequin, will reveal yourself, when you have destroyed both Pierrot and Columbine? '

__________________

marcopolo

Dauntless
Offline
Joined: 05/27/2010
Points: 220
Re: Doom and Gloom

The whole subject of nationalizing comes up because that's the basic Obama economic philosophy. People keep calling him a socialist, but he's actually a fascist in the il Duce tradition: Iron handed government control of business. Herbert Hoover set the wheels in motion in the U.S., F.D.R. carried it forward. Harry Truman didn't much care for it, and the stranglehold was loosened. I'm just waiting for Obama to start doing that thing with the hand as he speaks. 'O Duce,' Hmmmmm.

I loved the story today where the weather was keeping him from going somewhere to give his speech so they rescheduled somewhere nearby do he could talk. As Mark of 'Mark and Brian' said this morning, 'I've got this speech and I just gotta. . . .'

The Navy and the Coast Guard have not been happy when asked about the possibility of taking over, they keep saying it's not what they do. That would be like putting Dick Cheney in charge of. . .Uh. . . . I'm just waiting to see somebody put 'Rappacini's Daughter' in as head of the National Parks.

I think the government should seize the BP protest meetings, and put them to work cleaning up. And they could seize the protesters of the Arizona law and do as John McCain asked and provide additional security along the border. Oh, wait, the government only wants assets WITH a 'T.' Do ya blame 'em?

An old rig in a marginal field. Not worth spending a lot of money on if it's not going to produce big, eh? Yet the cost of an accident, do you really want to bother with such a marginal field? Well, yes, because 'Marginal' is still millions a year.

Mik wrote:
Dauntless wrote:

...
...
...
...
...
...

(Would you believe they used to PAY me to write things like this? To make their communities more interesting.)

No! That's quite unbelievable!

But maybe if they fired you for it... ;-) HAHAHA!

(Shhh, if they're paying me right now, they might hear you. Or they might just be saying, 'Got THAT ONE to respond. . . .')

__________________

WHo dares, WINS!!!!

marcopolo
Offline
Joined: 05/10/2009
Points: 837
Re: Doom and Gloom

Dauntless wrote:

I think the government should seize the BP protest meetings, and put them to work cleaning up.

Yeees.....tempting, very tempting!

Quote:

An old rig in a marginal field. Not worth spending a lot of money on if it's not going to produce big, eh? Yet the cost of an accident, do you really want to bother with such a marginal field? Well, yes,because 'Marginal' is still millions a year.

Yes the rapid depletion of oil reserves will cause more and more oil company executives to suspend better judgement.

I don't think President Obama is a facist. He's just a product of the US political machine. What makes people angry is that they deluded themselves that he was different. Such high expectations could never be met. Hillary was the better choice. Even John McCain, with out Palin, was more acceptable realistic, imagine if McCain could have attracted Colin Powell to the ticket?

But in the end it is the fault of the US media. All USA politicians are in terror of public opinion in a nation where public life is increasingly sensationalised and serious policy issues are ignored by an obsession with 'Celebrity status'.

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marcopolo

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