Crystalyte 20A(36V-72V) X-5 Brushless Controller Will Work For Brushed Motor Or Not?

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lyen
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Hello ALL! I recently bought an electric bike on ebay (Dash E-Cycle) folding ebike with a 180W to 250W brushed hub motor on the rear. The ebike is quite slow. I can only go up 12MPH without paddling. It comes with 3x12v 12AH SLA batteries is series (36V). I'm in the process to find ways to make it go at least 30MPH without changing the motor by adding another 3 12V SLA batteries for a total of 72V. Do you guys think the Crystalyte 20A(36V-72V) X-5 brushless motor controller [CNTRL-X5-20-] will work on brushed Motor? If so, will I be able to get > 30MPH? The bike with 3x12v battery weights 80 lbs and if I add another 3 batteries it will weight a total of 110 lbs. I'm about 170 lbs. So the total weight for bike + 72v SLA batteries + me will be about 280 lbs. Can I archive that with the new controller mentioned here + the existing 180W continuous/250W peak brushed motor? I appreciate your input. Thanks! :)

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NickF23
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Re: Crystalyte 20A(36V-72V)

Not possible to use a brushless controller with a brushed motor. You can get higher voltage brushed controllers but I think 72 volts will probably be too much for your motor. Most 36 volt brushed controllers I've seen can handle 48 volts, so you could try adding another battery. Alternativly you could buy another brushed controller, they're pretty cheap.

reikiman
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Re: Crystalyte 20A(36V-72V)

Yeah, on what Nick said. A 250 watt motor can do only so much. 250 watts is approx 1/3rd horsepower. Usually you can push motors beyond their ratings but at the risk of blowing the motor, and going from 36 to 72 volts is pushing it quite a ways.

One place to start, if you want to switch controllers, is the 4QD UNI-8. In the U.S. they're sold through robotcombat.com or you can order direct through 4qd.co.uk. It's an 80 amp controller and one model is rated for 48 volts. I've used this for a couple vehicles and am very happy with it.

Oh.. and do you really want to go 30 miles/hr on a foldup bicycle? That's a tricky enough thing on a regular bicycle. If you want to go 30 why not get a regular e-moped? This is just me speaking, but I think pushing a bicycle to go at high speed is nuts. er.. Unsafe is a better word to use than "nuts". Why not use a vehicle platform that's built for that speed?

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

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- Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia (since sold), Kia Soul EV

lyen
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Re: Bypass hall sensor on the controller?

Can I use 2 phases of a 3 phase brushless BLDC controller to power a brushed motor and connect two of the right hall sensor wires together to make 2 of the phase wires hot when the controller is on?

NickF23
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Re: Bypass hall sensor on the controller?

erm possibly, do you have one kicking around. If so try it. I've have a feeling it won't work but I can't think of a reason why not. You might break your controller though. Alternativly just buy a better brushed motor controller :?

reikiman
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Re: Bypass hall sensor on the controller?

So, let's see, you're going to use 2 phases of three. That leaves one left over, right? Can I have it? I promise to put it to good use!

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

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- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra Townie, 1971 Karmann Ghia (since sold), Kia Soul EV

lyen
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Re: Bypass hall sensor on the controller?

I think I would only get the same power because the same number of fets are used on each two brushless phases anyway. The fets dont rest on brushless controllers they just rotate and leave out 1 motor phase at a time while connecting 2 phases constantly! By connecting any two hallsensor signal wires of the 3 hall wires to the + 4-6 volt controller signal wire two of the phase wires will be hot with all phase fets working to connect two phases. Depending how many fets your controller uses for each phase is the question ? If the controller uses a pair of fets for each phase one may rest? If this is the case the duty cycle would be 1/3 more using a brushed motor. PWM will regulate them from the throttle.This should not trip an error unless Crystalyte added something wierd. Try gluing a magnet to three of the hallsensors and make sure one is open by checking the path with a voltmeter on the sensor leads. The hall sensors have 3 hall signal wires and there is a hot and a ground also to each sensor. When the hall switch trips by a magnet field the hall sensor switch will give the corisponding signal + or - back to the controller to switch a phase. If there is a stuck signal on one or two off hall signals TWO phases will remain on! Just make sure that one sensor signal wire is Off or TWO are off and ONE is on..It does not matter wihch ones. Then check the for the two hot phase wires out of the three. Make sure the wires are not touching each other.

lyen
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Is This For Real? A Brushed & Brushless Capable controller?

I have another question to ask about this controller listing on ebay as a brushed & brushless capable controller. Do you think the "Cyclone Coaster Electric Bike Controller 24v, 36v" controller would work on both type of motors since the motor feedback/hall sensor is considered optional as listed on the diagram? See below:

controller.gif

Here's the url from ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120141052665&rd=1&rd=1

Fechter
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Re: Is This For Real? A Brushed & Brushless Capable controller?

I don't think you can use a Crystalyte controller for a brushed motor without serious modification. The Crystalyte controller has a "locked rotor" protection circuit that will stop the output if the hall sensor signals stop changing for more than a few seconds.

The controller in the link above looks like it's made for a brushed motor only. I suspect the motor feedback sensor input is there to regulate the speed. I don't see 3 motor phase wires. Anyway, it would probably work with your motor.

lyen
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Crystalyte 36-72v 20a brushless controller for 180W brushe motor

I have already ordered the Crystalyte 36-72v 20a brushless controller & it should arrive tomorrow. I have also ordered 3 12v 12ah SLA batteries. The motor currently on the Dash E-Cycle is a brushed 180W continuous to 250W peak motor. Originally I bought the cheapest electric bike I could find just get get a feel of it & something I could put in the trunk of my beetle. Now I want more speed since it is too slow way too slow riding to work. It took me 90 minutes for 12 miles a way. Therefore, I need to find ways to boost it with the lowest possible cost. :)

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