Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

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GrooveConnection
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Joined: 01/19/2007
Points: 149

Boy I don't know,

tried to contact these Phoenix people 6 times (3 e-mails, 3 calls), nothing!
I would like to suggest that if some of you are interested, let's list their phone #s and hit them with so many calls till maybe MAYBE they will allow a few of us to actually test ride this mystery SUT.

I know that Ed Begley ordered one but so far there's not one on the street.
Hey maybe they build up a EV company and then have themselves comfortably bought out by the Oil Giants, who knows?

The truck itself is probably a Korean model, as is, I believe, the small SUV.....

10 cents anyone?

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amp_head
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Points: 135
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

The Phoenix trucks look to be the real deal as far as being a real truck with four wheels that roll. As far as being affordable viable transportation, well that is still up in the air. According to the articles I have read it comes with a 35kw pack capable of 100 + miles and the pack can be charged in under 10min with a charger that dims an entire city block when in use. I love your idea of posting the phone numbers!

http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=15110

http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=15285

jdh2550_1
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Points: 2338
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

$45K - only on sale to fleets - after that only on sale to Californians ...

Still too much money - but getting closer!

The 10 minute charge is designed for use with special "charging stations" with megawatts available to them no doubt.

EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

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Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

GrooveConnection
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Joined: 01/19/2007
Points: 149
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

Well here we go again...

Delayed by one year....as we happily enter the global warming age at a steady rate...

The link below may explain why I could not even get anybody to acknowledge my attempts of making contact with the mystery Phoenix Co.

They claim of having recieved about 500 orders thus far, a number that could have, i.m.O. been elevated quite a bit would they return calls or e-mails and set up test drives etc.

Here's the scoop:

http://www.discoverhybridcars.com/hybrid-cars-news/phoenix-motorcars-sutsuv-production-delayed-until-at-least-2008

Mannyman
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Points: 41
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

Living with Ed, season 2 episode, titled Jackson Brown is Green showed Ed and family driving the truck some more.

I sat in the SUT at last year's Santa Monica Alt Expo. It was nice. I also followed a nicer one (painted red and black)this year at San Diego's Earth Day parade.

They are for real but may not make it. The business plan as I understand it, is to sell the trucks at a loss and make the real money selling the California ZEV credits. If you are not in California it would be a complete loss to sell to you. The loss would be way more than $45K ( Pretty sure the battery pack alone is more than $45K)as they would not get credits.

How many US auto companies are there? If it were so easy don't you think there would be more? Seriously, unless you own a successful car company, give them a break.

Please take this in a "buddy conversation over beer" spirit:
I would much rather have them focus on getting these vehicles in production than spend a cent on having someone answer phones or emails on people like us.
We, by the fact that we participate in this forum, already drink the koolaid and will buy anything that comes out that we can afford.

I'm on their waiting list, they have a link at their site to get on it. That's good enough for a vehicle that isn't available yet.

Finally,I got tired of waiting, so am converting a car myself.
Manny

jdh2550_1
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Points: 2338
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

Thanks Manny - I never realized that their business model was to sell CA ZEV credits. It sounds hokey - but I hope it works for them. It also explains why it will be a long, long, long time before I ever get to buy one :(

Care to share more details about your car conversion?

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

andrew
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Joined: 11/28/2006
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Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

Quote:

( Pretty sure the battery pack alone is more than $45K)

From this interview at ABG that was linked to in the above link to the message by GrooveConnection here:

Quote:

And today we're selling our product anywhere from $1.50 to $2.50 per watt hour. And today nickel metal hydride is typically around fifty cents a watt hour and lithium ion is typically today around about $1.00 a watt hour. And we would expect to be below $1.00 in 18 months and below fifty cents in 36 to 40 months. So we'll be very price competitive, over the coming 18 to 36 months as our volume climbs.

It could be close to $45k/pack in quantity.

In any case developing and selling an EV for a decent price with new and very expensive battery technology is no easy task. Just give it a try =P. Unless you have a good team of engineers working for a long time you aren't going to get far. I'd suggest forgetting about them for now, as they obviously have a long way to go. And they are probably counting on Alternano's battery technology to drop in price. Obviously a lot of things can change and Alternano can be bought up, or pushed out of the market by another battery maker such as A123, or they could turn out to have technology issues. Or they just might not be able to bring the price down to a level that is attractive to buyers. Who knows?

From the Phoenix Motor Cars website:

Quote:

onsumer Sales:
In mid 2008, a limited number of vehicles will be released to selected consumers in California. If you would like to be considered for this select group and would like more information, please join our consumer waiting list.

and...

Quote:

Phoenix Motorcars will release a consumer version of its zero-emission, freeway-speed, green vehicle in late 2009. If you would like to be added to our mailing list or are interested in purchasing one of the few 2008 limited editions, please complete our waiting list form.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
My KZ750 Project: here

amp_head
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Joined: 05/26/2007
Points: 135
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

So, which is it, 2008 or 2009. lol
I hope they are successfully but think they are a good couple of years out from releasing the vehicle to the general public. The cost of the altairnano cells might just be the deal breaker.

Matt

Mannyman
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Joined: 09/05/2007
Points: 41
Re: Phoenix SUT for real or smoke and mirrors?

Let's keep our fingers crossed for Phoenix, Miles, Aptera, Tesla, and Zenn.
Let's wait until they are available to test drive on dealer lots before complaining about their customer service. These are the guys worth rooting for not slowing down.

If anyone would like to complain or vent thier frustration, then start with bugging the sh*t out of the existing established car makers and ask to drive their EVs. }:)

Or make one or convert one yourself, then slap yourself for forgetting the cupholder.
:D

Quote:

Care to share more details about your car conversion?

Manny
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com

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