LionEV - www.LionEV.com
:)
I spotted this one a couple of days ago, on a EV mailing list. This looks interesting, and the price looks nice.
Check it out, and lets see what you think!
The price is very low considering what they are offering. I don't think they are legit. I'd need to do a lot more research though, this is just purely skepticism.
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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here
Believe me, I understand the skepticism.
I think a lot of it depends on the cost of the Batteries. And I am also interested in what the cost is for a 400 mile pack vs a 100 mile pack.
The cost of the Ford Ranger EV is low too, considering it comes with a 200 mile pack.
Love to see the size of the packs, and I love the note about crush-ability of the pack.
At least they are worth watching.
Thanks,
Matt
I don't think they are legit either. Details are sparse. Where is the about us page? They are going to ask for your money and then disappear.
I prefer to think of them as having a bad website rather than being scam artists. :) They say they won't take your money until later. However, of course, I wouldn't give them any money until I knew a LOT more details.
As for the price - I'd be amazed if the entry level one has Lithium Ion batteries - but they might - here's my guesstimates on a price breakdown:
Hyundai Accent Dealer Invoice = $10k
A good AC Motor, controller and components = $10K for retail, say $5K for their price (check out www.electroauto.com or www.metricmind.com for some prices)
Installation materials = $1K
Installation Labor = $2K ($50 an hour * 40 hours)
So we're up to $18K before batteries (oh yeah and profit!) - that leaves $10K.
Assuming an AC motor can cruise at around 325 watt hours per mile (see http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1271 for comparison) then they'll need 100 * 325 watt hours to 400 * 325 watt hours of batteries to support their range claims (that's 32.5kWh to 130kWh). That's a lot of batteries!!!
Hmmm - it's definitely a company to watch - hope they publish more info soon.
John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI
Well, LionEV's web site has changed, and it says that some of their cars will be at the Energy Expo in Fletcher, NC on August 24. anyone on this board near Fletcher NC?
:) :) :) :) ROTFL - usatracy you're so darn cynical I just can't believe it :) :) :) :)
I hope someone on this forum is in the area and can go to the show. Perhaps they could find a slightly, err, less confrontational way to ask usatracy's questions...
I'm ever the careful optimist I still choose to believe these guys are naive rather than scam artists.
John "sucker or cynic?" H.
Blue XM-2000 (still going strong)
Ann Arbor, MI
BTW - a couple of things I've noted about the site:
1) It's a rep from Ampmobiles (http://www.ampmobiles.com) that is at the show. Not a rep from LionEV. However, one presumes they're pretty much the same company?
2) On ampmobiles web site they have the same "Due to the number of conversion requests we have had to scale back on these areas" The quoted text read by itself is very misleading. It's not conversions that ampmobiles have scaled back on - it's the following three other services:
* * Provide PV panel systems information for your home or business, or recommend size and type of system based on site analysis and needs of location
* * Provide affordable, simple solar water heating system information for your home, pool or jacuzzi, shop or barn, or business
* * Provide simple, affordable solar cooker information on using solar ovens
So, I believe they're saying they've scaled back on the solar related stuff in favor of the conversion related stuff. That's a valid reason and doesn't fall into usatracy's more skeptical read of the situation.
However, I do agree with usatracy that on the face of the readily available situation I'd be very unlikely to believe their claims. I'd want to drive the Hyundai first - so, someone tell us where we can drive one! :)
John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI
Saying, "I like to believe he is a real person with a real product who just has a bad website" IS ASKING FOR TROUBLE, you've already given up your ability to soundly judge the situation and measure the person/product against some metrics, just call him, give him your credit card number and your current available balance and get it over with :)
OK - my VISA Number is 4111-1111-1111-1111 and my available credit is $1,000,000 - can I have one please? ;)
I'm not sure if you're referring to my optimism or not? If so then I have to add to that sentiment: "I like to believe he is a real person with a real product who just has a bad website. However, before handing over my hard earned cash I want to know more"
Hang on a sec! You kind of contradict yourself - first you say that you went with ArcticFox because of his honesty and integrity (yep, that's why I did too) - but then you say "However, it still violates a prime no no in marketing your company, NEVER POINT OUT THE NEGATIVE no matter how positive you think it may be when taken in its entirety.". Didn't ArcticFox just violate that prime no no - and he got the business precisely because of it
Your ebay business is fascinating. Indeed there is a fool born every minute and you can part them from their cash. However, isn't ebay trading like you just documented exactly like commodities trading? If you want to take the risk of churning products and being held liable for providing the product at the price asked for then you can go right ahead... Sure, you're pulling the wool over the punter's eyes but you are taking a risk (all be it a small one) and you're getting a return for it. So what's the problem? It's not very nice but I'm not sure it's that unethical. It becomes unethical when you renege on the deal - which you didn't do. And, as an ethical person, I suspect you wouldn't - right? Sure you got lucky with the overseas sale - but wouldn't you have eaten the cost if the CFO hadn't come through?
This is a great debate - I'm learning a lot and I'm enjoying it immensely - however I don't think it relates to LionEV any more. Should we start another thread - perhaps called how to be a good consumer?
John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI
Bummer! My credit is no good... :(
Would you accept a personal check? Or an I.O.U.? Or a free mention in my autobiography? }:)
John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI
This can't be legitimate. Check out their Shows page -- they explain in MSPaint that all that's needed for a lithium-ion pack is to make sure it stays cool with lots of radiators. Apparently that's all that's needed, no BMS or anything! These guys sure are smart.
The price alone gives away the fact that it's B.S. -- you simply can't sell a lithium-ion powered car for that price. Not yet.
It seems the Ampmobile folks (Mike and Paula Moore)were at the Southern Energy & Environment Expo.
www.seeexpo.com . At least they are listed as exhibitors. But anyway they are only listed on the LionEv website as people who will convert your current car. I don't think they are the same people as LionEv though it's clear thy have some sort of association. LionEv definitely has a better website. They also have pictures of constructed battery packs. I don't know if they are or aren't legit and those vehicle prices do seem low considering what they are charging for their battery packs. It is possible that they they are making some of that new vehicle cost back by selling the motor and other unneeded parts.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
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Thanks.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
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G III
"Justifiably Proud"